Organized voter fraud by the Democrats and greens : LUSENET : TB2K spinoff uncensored : One Thread

Check out and

These are just a couple of the brand new crop of websites offering vote swapping online. Just another example of socialist reasoning. The end justifies the means. Two wrongs can make a right as long as it's a left leaning right. Fuck the spirit of the law, and fuck the constitution too. It does have one good point. This is the death knell for the electoral college system.

-- Nikoli Krushev (, October 28, 2000


And while you're at it, fuck you too Nikoli!

Why don't you enlighten us as to what exactly is "wrong" with this, and what is unconstitutional about it?

Perhaps you are just pissed off because the "left" are smarter than the "right"? LOL

-- (shrubya's@gonna.lose), October 28, 2000.

This is a bullshit post,anyone who would be against such a thing would not broadcast it.

Step back into your little cage.

-- capnfun (, October 28, 2000.

Actually, the site to check out is Over 1000 votes have been swapped in a couple of days. If 100,000 people swapped votes, Nader would win 5 percent and Gore would regain swing states that normally would go to him but for Nader.

If the idea seems too untrustworthy for some Nader voters, they can simply contact a friend in a "blowout" state like Texas and trade votes privately. If even that is too risky, they can wait until 7:30 and vote Nader only if the election is a blowout. But trading early would avoid that kind of blowout to Bush.

Vote swapping insures that Nader gets his 5 percent and Bush stays out of office. Alas, the site is probably too little too late. Bush is already predicted the winner on As a perfect example of the Nader phenomena working to Bush's advantage, Orvetti has Oregon going to Bush. Bush is even brazenly running pro-Nader ads now in these swing states.

By the way Nik, the Senate swaps votes regularly throughout the year. I don't hear anyone accusing them of fraud. If it works for the Greens and the Dems, hey, all the more power to them! It's the Green Party that stands the most to gain from this -- if swapping actually works and they do achieve a 5 percent showing, then the party will certainly pose a formidable challenge to the Democrats in 2000.

On a personal note, I swapped my Nader vote. Happily, I was able to surrender my Nader proclivity to a Montana voter. She took the Nader vote, I took her Gore vote. I'm delighted -- we both win!

I think swapping is a brilliant idea, and a great illustration of grassroots democracy in action. It's pragmatic, not dogmatic. Even if vote trading doesn't get the kind of successful results it's aiming toward, it certainly is an exciting harbinger of things to come in future elections.

The next time a Ross Perot runs, the Republicans will use it, too. They just didn't have access to it in 1992.


-- Celia Thaxter (, October 28, 2000.

Let's see if this Voteswap2000 link works.

-- Celia Thaxter (, October 28, 2000.

FWIW, the Republicans (some of them), are also trying to use the Greens/Nader as leverage:

GO P Group To Air Pro-Nader TV Ads

-- I'm Here, I'm There (I'm Everywhere@so.beware), October 28, 2000.

Just the response I expected from a bunch of saocialist assholes. This vote swapping scheme is the moral and ethical equivelent of ballot box stuffing or electronic gerrymandering. You can rationalize it all you want, which of course is just the point, that you will. Basically the same thought process that allowed Hitler to slaughter the jews, the end justifies the means. The whole idea is another one of the Clinton Carville skirt the letter of the law sleaze tactics we have become so accustomed to over the last eight years. Yeah, character doesn't count, not to a bunch of criminally minded socialist anyway. No wonder Clinton wasn't convicted during his impeachment, he has simply become the moral standard for a party of atheist communist armed robbers. You people literally make me sick to my stomach, Pure fucking vermin.

-- Nikoli Krushev (, October 28, 2000.


I wouldn't get too excited about Orvetti's prediction just yet. He may have predicted 50 of 50 in 1996, but remember he only predicted 43 of 50 in 1992. If he predicted 48 of 50 this year [not a bad prediction], but missed Florida and Wisconsin, that gives Bush 261 and Gore 277. From an examination of his map, it looks to me like he didn't take into account the Greens who would wait and see, even if we exclude the vote-swapping angle. Wisconsin stands out more in my mind than Oregon. Personally, I think he missed the boat on Pennsylvania and Missouri, as well.

-- Anita (, October 28, 2000.

Just the response I expected from a bunch of saocialist assholes. . . .

. . .You people literally make me sick to my stomach, Pure fucking vermin.

Oh my. Looks like you've earned yourself a few of these. . .

Now, our very simple rules require that you sit in the corner for exactly 5 hours, after which time you can submit a written request for forgiveness. Once it is properly notarized by at least 4 currently sitting Supreme Court Justices, we will review your request for spelling, accuracy, honesty, sincerity, and neatness. We will notify you of our decision within 72 hours. Failure to follow these instructions to the letter will result in the execution of at least one close family member of yours. Please check the Rules here for more information.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), October 28, 2000.

hmm, you never disappoint.....rotflmbo!

-- Patricia (, October 28, 2000.


Glad to hear your take on Wisconsin. Is Wisconsin leaning to Bush now only because of the Nader vote? I too wonder about Florida. Many people say Bush just has to take Florida if he wants to win, but Gore has been doing fairly well down there.

-- Celia Thaxter (, October 28, 2000.


Well, Gore is still SLIGHTLY ahead in the polls in Wisconsin [as of today], but Nader is drawing 6% of the votes. Gore had an extremely good rally there over the weekend, however, in which he had to mention what might happen if Bush were elected....hint...hint. I don't have the figures for Nader on the St. Norbert poll in Wisconsin, but as of 10/18-24, Gore was up by 7%.

Pennsylvania is ALSO up on Gore today. I simply think Orvetti made a few bad picks, which is NOT to say "Let the guard down."

-- Anita (, October 28, 2000.


Where are you picking up your state polling results? Do you have a favorite site?

-- Celia Thaxter (, October 28, 2000.

The Republicans could have beat Gore if they had nominated McCain. But as it is, shrubby is unelectable. Might Nader come in second?

-- !! (???@?.?), October 28, 2000.


Orvetti is STILL reporting on state election polls:

Saturday, October 28, 2000 Afternoon Time/CNN: Bush 49%, Gore 43%... Newsweek: Bush 49%, Gore 41%... Fox News polled likely voters in California, Florida, Illinois, Michigan, Missouri, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. The result: Bush 46%, Gore 41%... Michigan: Gore 43%, Bush 42%, Nader 5%, Buchanan 2%, U.S. News and World Report finds. The poll included Buchanan, even though he is not on the ballot in the state. Fox News has Gore leading Bush 42-41% in Michigan... Pennsylvania: Gore 45%, Bush 40%, Buchanan 5%, Nader 5%, U.S. News and World Report finds; Gore 46%, Bush 39%, Fox News finds... Wisconsin: Gore 43%, Bush 42%, Nader 6%, Buchanan 3%, U.S. News and World Report finds... Illinois: Bush 44%, Gore 43%, Fox News finds... Gore will campaign in California with President Clinton and that state's Democratic governor, Gray Davis, next week... Bush campaigns in California with Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) Monday... Montana: Bush 49%, Gore 37%, Mason-Dixon reports... New York Senate candidates Hillary Clinton (D) and Rep. Rick Lazio (R) met in an acrimonious final debate Friday... California Senate rivals Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D) and Rep. Tom Campbell (R) held a polite debate Friday as supporters of Green nominee Medea Benjamin protested her exclusion...Minnesota Senate candidate Mark Dayton (D) released FBI files on a 1970's investigation into his political activities Friday. Dayton's rival, Sen. Rod Grams (R), had demanded the release, but Dayton has played up his past activism, which earned him a spot on President Richard Nixon's "Enemies List"...

Another that is not updated as often is this one. I hope I typed that correctly. I pored through information on dinoflagellates to find a hard-copy [stuck behind Chapter 29 notes.] I'm trying to study for exams coming up, but I can't seem to keep my eyes off this election. Of course info on rallies in Wisconsin and Missouri are from other sites that I visit daily.

-- Anita (, October 28, 2000.

Thump Thump thump whack!! breathe dammit thump thump thump whack!!!!

Al-D "Why you keep bitch slapping them Nikoli?"

"Same reason you keep thumping on their chest, I'm trying to save them."

-- Nikoli Krushev (, October 28, 2000.

I would suggest that calling everyone here "pure fucking vermin" would not be the most effective method of "saving us."

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), October 28, 2000.

Nikoli has an anger problem, he needs to save himself before he can save anyone else. Anger, guns, and violence are not the answer.

-- (food@for.thought), October 28, 2000.

Yea!!! This is the ticket,go vote swapping on the internet,only 1 catch though.Was it moi you swapped with? You are gonna vote for Nader,right?,I'm gonna vote for Gore,right? WRONG ANSWER!!! I'm gonna vote for BROWNE.Turnabout is fair play,right? Ya never know!

Oh what a wicked web we weave when at 1st we practice to decieve.

See ya on the vote swapping sites,maybe ; )

-- capnfun (, October 29, 2000.

OH! Did I forget to mention the little club? : )

-- capnfun (, October 29, 2000.

Question for the conspiricists among you to ponder :-) --

Why does the Voteswap2000 site send you a cookie with an expiration date in 2034?

-- No Spam Please (, October 29, 2000.


Swapping is done on the "honor system." I've corresponded with my swapper, and I trust her. Call me foolish if you like, but I'm happy to have a little faith.

-- Celia Thaxter (, October 30, 2000.


From what has been said I'm aware that vote swapping is legal but IMHO not ethical by any means.Not only would I never take part but would openly encourage others to undermine this activety by posing as swappers and not following through,even the suggestion that this is happening may make them think twice,putting enough doubt into the swappers' mind that they may be hurting their own candidate.

-- capnfun (, October 30, 2000.

Heres the real problem.

Campain Finance Reform

-- capnfun (, October 30, 2000.

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