Hello once again one & all,

It has been FAR too long since I have visited this site. I have missed it terribly.

I'm hoping that I will get many responses to this post especially from some who are in a similiar situation as I am.

I live in the heart of one of the largest cities in the U.S. I have a full time job outside the home, a self employed spouse for whom I take care of all the "paperwork" business needs for, and three children (ages 19, 16 and 6).

My husband's livlihood depends on a "growing community" as he is in construction. His whole family (which is extremely close - and we like it that way), all live within about 15 minutes of us. As I don't feel leaving the city is an option for us (at least not at this time in our lives), I would like to know how I could bring some simplicity, and peace into our fast-paced lifestyle. The pace of running this rat race is really beginning to wear on me. I used to always have a positive attitude but anymore I seem to be in the "dumps". I think I need some advice on how to slow things down, and how to bring some of the "good old days" back into our home.

It seems as though I never have the time to take care of even the most basic things like grocery shopping, housecleaning, etc. let alone have any time what so ever to myself for any recreation or hobbies (which I have none).

So much about our lifestyle is beginning to concern me. I worry about how my children have grown up in society that has taught them everything contrary to what we as parents believe and have tried to teach our children. They are subjected to so much garbage in a days time that it just becomes a part of them. At their ages (the older ones), I don't know what to do to change things. I guess I just need to learn how to be firm with my children and just tell them that THIS is the way things are going to be whether they like it or not. Everyone in our household seems to have their own agenda - everyone seems to be doing their own thing and going in all different directions and this is not my idea of the way a family should be.

So as you can see, I could really use some advice here. I really appreciate you all lending me your shoulder(s) to cry on.

Thanking you in advance,

Greenthumbelina

-- Greenthumbelina (sck8107@aol.com), October 18, 2000

Answers

Hi Greenthumbelina. I'm sorry to hear you're down. I am new to the forum. I have three girls, 1, 4, and 9. I remember both my parents were hardly ever home when I was a teenager. Once in a while they would try to tell me what to do, and I would just look at them and think "who do you think you are?". I made my own decisions all day everyday and then to have someone step in and assert themselves was ridiculous. I remember just out of the blue feeling like my mom might be worried about me, so I called her to tell her where I would be for the night. Instead of saying thanks for thinking of me and maybe we should get to know eachother better, her reply was no way you are doing that! I responded with "I didn't call to get your permission, I was just calling to let you know I'm OK", then hung up. I hadn't slept at home in a week and she never knew where I was or what I was doing. She had never asked. I'm afraid deciding to be firm with your teens will only alienate them from you. Even at six it may be considered an unreasonable intrusion. It's not too late to develope closeness as long as you respect that your authority was given up gradually a long time ago. With my own children, I noticed having them in daycare when I went to work at night alienated me from them. I had stayed home with them for 5 years and knew them well, then after going back to work I looked at my oldest and wondered why she did the things she did. I didn't know her anymore. I quit my job and pinched my pennies. I lived off child support(I was single at the time) and some babysitting jobs. I noticed I lost my daughter again when she started visiting friends after school and was hardly home. I began to notice the bad influence of her classmates and her looking to teachers as authority figures rather than me. By then I was remarried. I took her out of school and am now homeschooling. She is home most of the time now. She volunteers to clean and do chores. She looks to me for answers to questions and we are alot closer. She even gets along better with her younger sisters. Financially things are tight, but we have a strong family and the only real stress I have is that associated with being a stay at home mom.

I know not everyone can live like me. My sister and friends have commented that they could never spend all day with their kids, though they envy how well they know my kids. I hope my experiences help you at least a bit. My thoughts are with you.

-- Epona (staceyb@myway.com), October 18, 2000.

Greenthumbelina...Good to hear from you again! I am running late and I would love to "talk" more, so I'll visit this thread later. But I did have one small thought (hey, it worked for me!)If one reason why you can't see yourself moving is b/c of family ties, then move the whole extended family out of the city! (I know, far-fetched). We moved out to the country, and then everyone saw how great it was when they visited us. They started seeing the rat race through our more satisfied eyes, and transformed. Next thing you know, everyone is living within a dozen miles of us....of course our family is small!

Are there some voluntary simplicity groups in your area? They have the right idea and those concepts are pretty appropriate in urban areas. If not any around, research the concept and start your own? Yeah, as if you need more stuff to do! Maybe read some Tightwad Gazette to get wound up!

Good luck. Having grown up in a city I can understand some of what you say!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), October 18, 2000.

Hi Greenthumbelina,

If there is any one action you can take that might help you start to regain control, it's "The family dinner is a requirment, not an option". There HAS TO BE some time set aside when the family gathers as a unit, discusses the day's activities; triumphs, failures, problems, etc. in a calm, caring way. Are you a slave to schedules or master of them? There also HAS TO BE adult time set aside. No kids allowed.

Do you live in an apartment? There are plenty of "balcony" garden ideas that everyeone can get involved in. Or a house with a small yard? Still space for green thumb projects.

Get out a pencil and paper and write down what's important. What's not. A list help you focus. Keep it in front of you. Prioritize. TURN OFF THE TV. Family trips to the library.

Okay. That's enough for now from me. What I love about this site is that there are many people out there willing to jump in to lend a hand.

(:raig

-- Craig Miller (CMiller@ssd.com), October 18, 2000.

Good posts above. I say sit down with the family. Kids too because they have minds. And decide what's really important. Write it down and dump everything else. I really like the suggestion about supper for everyone every day. No exceptions.

What I did was buy a house in a town of 400 people and I drive 20 miles each way each day to work. It sure is relaxing when I get home everyday. I have to drive 14 miles to the store. I love it. I save money because I'm not tempted by having a Wal-Mart or pizza place just down the street.

-- Joe Cole (jcole@apha.com), October 18, 2000.

Try to plan a Saturday trip to a small town near your metro area, preferablly one with a mainstreet bisected by a railway. spend the day window shopping and maybe watching a freight train pass by. Return home that evening to a sit down dinner and conversation about the days outing as a family. This works, my family did this for ten years while in Chicago, traveling out of the city to where as my grandfather said "you could buy snuff off the top of the gas station counter without getting that funny look". A city garden is also a plus if the whole family participates. The main secret is just make the time to slow down.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), October 18, 2000.

Forgot to add, make the Saturday sit down dinner from the weeks leftovers. Cuts down on stress and is another topic for dinner conversation.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), October 18, 2000.

"This is how things are going to be whether you like it or not" is great to say to a 6 year old, but the 19 and 16 year old? Kids learn by our actions more than our words, and what are they learning? Rat race, Dad at work all the time, Mom working full time, and doing the books for the family business,housework, grocery shopping (notice how you didn't say my husband doesn't have time for these things) you also have no time to yourself no recreation and no hobby. Yikes! You are working for what? Don't know you personally but most of my friends work for a lifestyle. Nicer 2nd car, jewelry, name brand clothes for them and the kids, a bigger house. Well I have a lifestyle that I don't have to work for, I did sacrafice for it though, nicer truck than most of my friends who work, have more expenisive goats than their jewlery (O.K. I know for some that isn't the same!) I have a very nice house, and I was able to raise my own kids, which is the most important thing when you come right down to it. This is not your problem it is the whole families problem. I also vote for the family discussion, making sure first that you and your husband are on the same page, and everyone pitching in to help means husband and kids, helping with housework, grocery shopping, and I did invoices for my folks very large company from the time I could type! You against the world will loose, but your family against the world....surely you get the idea...Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), October 18, 2000.

Thank you one and all for your words of wisdom. I appreciate each one of you for taking the time to respond to my post. I will try to schedule a family meeting and I will have my list of priorities with me. I will request that each family member bring their own list of what's really important in their lives to the meeting with them as well. We all have to know what is important to each other if we are ever going to attempt to "row" in the same direction.

Once again, Thank you all. I don't know where I would be without you.

=)

Greenthumbelina

PS You all should read Bonnie's post "Things I am thankful for" What an eye opener!!

-- Greenthumbelina (sck8107@aol.com), October 18, 2000.

Epona, and Vicki gave you all the advice I would have, I just have one thing to say! QUIT ! ! ! QUIT ! ! ! QUIT ! ! ! I'm not screaming at you, but being very sympathetic and saying in doing this one little thing, (o.k. it may be a big thing for some) the other things will follow. It's the most important thing I've EVER done for my children, just being here! Blessing to you and your family.

-- Carol (cwaldrop@peoplescom.net), October 18, 2000.

It sounds like ya'll have too many things going. Cut out a LOT of the kids activities. Throw away the TV. I guarantee this will help immensely. Amanda

-- Amanda (aseley@townsqr.com), October 18, 2000.

Dear Greenthumbelina:

Okay, some thoughts. First, we play a game at dinner that is such an icebreaker: it's called High-Low (saw it in a movie). Go around the table and each person tells the best (high) thing that happened to them that day, and then the worst (their low). It's quite an eye opener first of all because you'll start to see some interesting patterns. Also, watch the noise level around you. Before moving to the country, I became super sensitive to noise. You'd be amazed at how loud everything is, not just, say, oh the tv's on too loud, but the cumulative noise really can stress your nerves. Also, watch out for music, some music on some days will invigorate you, but some days the same stuff will actually be getting on your nerves but you won't realize it til you turn it off. Also, no one can give too much advice regarding the job thing, as we don't know your particular financial situation, but if you can't quit your job (and really really look to see if that could be done), you might consider hiring out some help, or have those teens start doing things like the grocery shopping. Also, if you're having trouble with the kids, get the book "Back In Control", some really great advice in there. Hang in there. Check how you're eating too, if you're feeling worn down and stressed, maybe some B vitamins will help. Lots of different thoughts here, maybe one of them will help. Oh, biggest one: I did this one time when I was soooo stressed and it really helped. Write down in one column every thing, big or little that's stressing you. I mean everything, no matter how silly, trite, or guilt-creating it is. Then, across from each item, write down what would need to be done to correct the problem. You'll find some interesting patterns there too! Plus, you'll begin to fix some of them. Hope this helps.

-- Katie (ktthegardener@yahoo.com), October 18, 2000.

Congratulations on paying attention and not going blindly through life like so many others.

I have to agree with everyone and the part about the teenagers. I had a mom that had no time for me and worked all the time and when she "showed up" when I was 18 and tried to tell me what to do, I did one of two things--laughed or screamed. The teenagers are going to be your biggest challenge. The six year old is still quite pliable.

Can you ask the older ones to help with the grocery shopping and meals? It might help with some family unity.

The dinner with the family is excellent, but if you want to start slow, you might try a dessert night for the family. Also, you might try a family picnic at a park, beach, or even a weekend camping trip. Mabye a home video night where everyone makes snacks and you take turns picking out a movie. That's what we do instead of going out.

"Your actions speak so loudly, I can't hear what you are saying" ---

No truer words are spoken. For example: My husband and I are always courteous to each other and I have a 2 year old that says please, thank you and you're welcome with no coaxing.

In other words, you want your family to slow down......you need to, period.

You will find a way if you really want to.....Everyone told me I couldn't stay home with my kids in the most expensive part of the country and I found a way. Read "Your Money or Your Life". If you are open minded, I can give you a real different perspective.

-- Carleen (netorcs@mo-net.com), October 18, 2000.

You have all my respect for admitting the problem. Three years ago I moved my 3 teenage boys to the mountains. What a fuss. It took one of them 2 years to forgive me. Some of the things I did that worked: no TV, lots of family games, talking with the boys about current events in the world, working together in and outside the house (they hate it, but do it and we can talk at the same time), constant home improvement projects that everyone had to live with and work on, an adult paper route with my 17 year old (alot of time to talk without interruptions) and taking my 15 year old to work with me (I cleaned buildings for a horrible 7 months), homeschooling the boys. Mostly, we talked, and talked and talked. I also listened and listened and listened. They respect me more now and I respect them more as well. Good Luck. May all the best be with you as you try to salvage your family. It is not too late to bring them closer together.

-- Cheryl Cox (bramblecottage@hotmail.com), October 18, 2000.

Greenthumbelina, You said leaving the city at this time is not an option so we must go with what you can do where you are.

You can make your garage into a "Home Office". Do all the paperwork from there. Use an answering machine to get the calls. Get your older kids involved a little, might teach them responsibility, money management, organizational skills and even construction. At least you will be doing it together. After all, the business supports the WHOLE family, it won't hurt them to help you a little. They might even enjoy spending time with you and asking you questions.

Do you have a front and back yard? You can make the back yard closed off to the whole world with a little imagination. Tall fences, tall trees to buffer the neighborhood. A little water fall streaming down into a little pond. Benches to sit on. Plants everywhere. Get a good book about privacy landscaping. Grow plants to invite the birds and butterflies. When you start to feel stressed, go out there. Get your kids involed with it.

What I like to do is go to the grocery store very early on Saturday mornings, about twice a month. Get there right when they open and you will have the place to yourself and get out fast and home before all the Saturday traffic, about 10 am. Cook things that the kids like allot, so they will want to stay and eat! And invite their friends over to eat too. You can make your kitchen look and feel like a warm, cozy place to gather. Get good homemade breads and muffins, even if you have to buy them, instead of those fast yucky snacks. No microwave eat it and go stuff. You can put water with cinnamon and cloves on the stove to simmer, smells like apple pie!

I worked in a home office for my brother many years, and it's great. And it works. Everyone else is doing it, why can't you. Seems you have worked many years, now talk to your husband about some of your wishes and needs.

Don't force the kids to get involved, just make it look like you are having sooooo much fun, they will want to on their own. I have a 24 year old son and I know how hard it is. When I was chopping wood, I would pretend I couldn't do it and laugh and say what a wimp I was and my son would say, "Give it to me, I'll show you how to do it"!! I would say, boy you are GOOD at that! Made him feel good about himself too. Turn off the TV and give the 6 year old a sandbox in the backyard, a big one, and get in there with him, I did. The whole world seems to disappear when you are playing in a sandbox. Just some ideas. Wish you all the best and keep in touch with us all.

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@msn.com), October 19, 2000.

I just can't thank you all enough for your ideas and support. There are so many great suggestions, I'm actually excited about implementing this change in our lives rather than dreading it.

By the way, just to let you know, Hubby & I had a nice long talk (and listen) with our 16 yr. old last night. I think she understands things a little better now and we ALL are clear on each other's expectations and know what is flexible and what is not optional etc.

We all realized something about each other last night and I came away from the "pow-wow" with renewed hope. I know things won't be perfect overnight (actually, I've agreed to lower some of my expectations after realizing that I was a bit over-bearing or too particular in some areas. I have to "give" a little too), but I feel that at least we have a clear understanding of what needs to take place in our home now.

With alot of love and perserverence, we will make it!!! =)

Thank you all so very, very much, Greenthumbelina

-- Greenthumbelina (sck8107@aol.com), October 19, 2000.

I just had a thought of something you could plan at your "family meeting". Get all your calendars together and mark off a "Getting to Know You Week". Then outlaw any meetings, dates, bring-home work, outings with friends, extra-curricular activities after 5 p.m. etc. Unplug the TV and computer for the week, turn on the answering machine to pick up after 1 or 2 rings. Here are some ideas of things to do (along with some of the other great ideas above.)

Get out the board games that require at least 2 players (preferably more).

Plan activities or outings you all like to do.

Put on some soft relaxing music and each of you do your own thing just as long as you are in the same room.

This may sound funny - but read together. Pick a book you would all enjoy like THE HOBBIT by Tolkien, THE LION, THE WITCH AND THE WARDROBE by Lewis, THE SECRET GARDEN by Burnett, TREASURE ISLAND by Stevenson (you get the idea). Then read aloud together. You could even take turns. It can be alot of fun and usually our boys don't want us to stop.

Get out the atlas and travel books and plan a vacation together. Everyone gets to pick a sight to visit along the travel route.

On another note why not try putting on the breaks. Have everyone (you included) stop everything they are doing that takes them away from the family, except work, for one month. No meetings, no clubs, no parties, no sports, no lessons, nothing!!! That sounds a little harsh but if you can do it it can help you get things into perspective. At the very least limit everyone to ONE outside activity. Then at the end of the month evaluate what is really important, necessary, or clutter. Of course, you will have to say NO to some good things, even to have this one month off. But good things are not always BEST.

It sounds like you are off to a good start. Communication is half the battle. God Bless.

-- Vaughn (vdcjm5@juno.com), October 19, 2000.

Hey Green--------a! Sounds like you're too busy. Bein an old hillbilly that once lived in a BIG city, I know what you're talkin about. We'd come home once in awhile and sleep at pap's house. It was hard to sleep because of all the "quiet"! My solution? Quit and MOVE! You apparently don't have that option so I would suggest slowin down a bunch. Take a llittle sash-shay to the countryside, get out a lawn chair and get "unlaxed". Quiet solitude away from all the stress of everyday life will work wonders with ones spirit. You might also wanna take a piknik basket with some grub. It don't have to be fancy- why even Spam will work! Some tater chipe, Iced Tea, and maybe even some firewood to make a little fire with. Too much stress in this old world no-a-days. No wonder people are dyin too young. My $2.00 worth. Gods Greatest Blessings to y'all. old hillbilly hoot gibson. Matt. 24:44

-- hoot gibson (hoot@pcinetwork.com), October 19, 2000.

To add a little to the above, have you considered buying a small camper and spening a weekend a month camping, even in cool weather? Those tow-behind, pop-up campers are more spacious than they look. Important thing would be to keep the weekend as simple as possible. No elaborate meals. To the extent possible, everyone does for themselves. There are probably over 100 places to camp within an hour's drive. Also, while camping, you meet some of the nicest people.

Also consider time management factors. For example, it would take less effort to spend one afternoon pre-cooking all of next weeks meals than doing them individually. See a prior post under Country Kitchen for several books on this. Same for laundry, do it once a week, perhaps at a laundromat even if you have a washer and dryer. After we got to Junior High mom's rule was, if you want it ironed, there is the board and there is the iron. Another family rule was whoever cooked didn't have to do cleanup.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), October 20, 2000.

I really do believe that it is good to start with yourself: make your own time-out...do it for yourself. Clear the boards for your one hour a day, every day, make yourself a pot of tea, and sit down and drink it, savour it -- without reading, without planning or making lists of all you have to do or ought to do or should have done. Just BE. Start with yourself. I may be accused of having a vested interest in tea (I own a teahouse), but so many people come in and ask for a tea to relax them or to fix this or that, and it really doesn't matter which kind of tea I give them, it is the taking time out, and sitting and savouring that does it. And when you have mastered taking care of your one hour for yourself, you can expand it, either to include someone else who wants to join you, or by expanding the hour to longer, or by extending the concept of centering/balancing/simplifying to other areas of your life. Your children will become you, eventually, no matter what you do, so you need to be just as you would like them to be. They already are running around busily doing, just as you are. Someone has to just stop, sit, and begin the centerpoint of calmness in all your lives. They will gravitate toward you and your example, because it is their nature to become you.

I also second the motion for family dinner every night no excuses, otherwise you're all just roomers in a boarding house.

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), October 20, 2000.

Cindys' suggestion of a home office has great merit. My father was in sales and when we were living in Chicago, he closed his downtown suite of offices and moved the whole operation and his sales reps to the large garage at the house in the suburbs so that he could spend more time with my brother and I. He taught me much of what I have learned about sales and marketing one on one by letting me grow up around his work environment. I feel my time with him was more of an education than my time spent in college attaining my electronics technology and liberal arts background.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), October 20, 2000.

Greenthumbelina, After I changed my mindset regarding the fast paced American lifestyle I was stuck in the city for 5 years. Here are a few of the things I did to live simply in the city. Remember one thing, people have lived in cities for thousands of years and they did not live in the chaos that is typical of today's American lifestyle. Also, in many parts of the world today you will find city dwellers who live simply. Simplicity is in your heart. Of course, living in the country makes this so much easier but it is not impossible to simplify where you are at. I will tell you some things that I did when I was still in the city that helped me and maybe there are some ideas you can use.

1. Is there any way you can quit your job? This would be ideal. It will be hard to obtain simplicity without this one step. Talk it over with your husband. Could you live without 2 cars? How much money would you save if you made your food from scratch and bought your clothes and households from thrift and garage sales? Most (not all) people are suprised to find out that they aren't bringing home anything when they add all there expenses in.

2. GET RID OF YOUR TELEVISION! If the rest of your family objects to this I guess you are stuck. My husband has discovered that he enjoys listening to me read to the family as much as he liked TV. Try setting aside one night for family reading. If everyone gets into it, the TV may fade into the distance. Henry and The Great Society is a good book to start with.

3. Develop your faith in God. My Christian faith is simple and it brings me peace even when life gets chaotic (which it inevitable will at times not matter how hard we work at simplicity). It is when I get out of focus that the chaos begins to affect me.

4. Work on putting people and their needs above things.

5. Take a lesson from the Amish and get rid of everything that is not a neccessity or that does not enrich your life. Ex: knick knacks. Than whatever is leftover organize. Have a big garage sale and then use the money for a family weekend in the country. Touring Amish country is fun and will teach you alot about simple living.

6. Do country things. Plant a garden (with a name like greenthumbelina I would imagine you already have one), can some applesauce, make yogurt or cheese, bake bread etc...

I hope these suggestions are helpful!

-- Tiffani Cappello (cappello@alltel.net), October 24, 2000.

Boy, the ideas on here are so great, I'm going to keep this thread!

I thought I would share a list of things that I got from a class I took in 1979. It was kind of about Time Management, but it was mostly on having a Meaningful time. Anyone remember seminars called "More Time Good Time"?

Here's what they called the "Effectiveness Checklist" (I have used this for 21 years, sometimes well, and sometimes....well....!)A proven stress reducing plan, anyway! You will however, need a little stress to accomplish it all at first!

1) Clean house from top to bottom.

2) CLean office from top to bottom and keep it clean.

3) Get your car clean and keep it clean.

4) Throw away or give away clothes and items not needed.

5) Get up to date on your correspondence.

6) Get rid of or fix anything that doesn't work.

7) Make arrangements to get things that have been borrowed from you.

8) Return everything you've borrowed and no longer need.

9) Balance your checkbook and keep it balanced.

10)Pay all your bills or make arrangements to pay.

11)Organize all your IRS files up to date.

12)Keep your wardrobe up to date.

13)Keep your health up to date.

While #12 is pretty funny, it still makes sense if you consider making sure you have the RIGHT clothes for whatever you need, so you don't worry about it. That's pretty much the point here....free up your mind for enjoying the rest of your time, but taking care of the details once and for all!( I wish..)

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), October 24, 2000.