Got a question for y'all (that tells you I'm from the South) - have coyotes been a problem in your area? I've been hearing of folk from here & there who have really big ones that are not shy about predation, which is not good. I have a place in the woods near where TN, KY & VA meet & would love to hear about your encounters. So far, no problem, but maybe my carefree wanderings should be more cautious. (no, I am not a ditz in the woods or boonies) Do drop a line, if you would, & give an idea of area & sightings & what happened..... Thanks!..................K-K-K-Katie.

-- K-K-K-KATIE (yarsnpinnerkt@hotmail.com), October 12, 2000

Answers

I think coyotes are pretty harmless, unless you have a lot of rabbits or free ranging poultry that doesn't get shut in for the night. They run right through our goat pastures, only 20-30 feet from the barn, and have never harmed the goats,even during kidding season. They cut through our pasture in order to get to a huge colony of 'whistle pig' gophers, that live in a colony like prairie dogs. They eat those gophers, which keeps them from getting into our garden. Coons take a far greater toll on our ducks, to my knowledge we have never lost a single one to coyotes. Our neighbor was complaing that they've been eating her cats, guess the cats must go into the woods at night to hunt and then get hunted themselves. I don't think that you personally have anything to fear from a coyote unless it is rabid or something, and rabid animals usually act sick and tame. If anything has been a problem with predation here ( and we have lions, bears, etc here) it has been domestic dogs running loose, killing calves, running stock until it gets hung up in barb wire fences, and such.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), October 12, 2000.

Hello from NM. Agree 100% with Rebekah, coons & pet dogs are the biggest problem to small livestock. I've lost 3 chickens to coyotes & foxes, but it was more my fault than anything -- I left all the chickens out while I went to the store. Duh! Coyotes only take only what they need, tho, but a dog will come in and kill everything you got if it gets a chance. However, if there's an easy meal to be had, coyotes will keep coming back. I keep my cats in the house, mostly due to roaming dogs rather than coyotes, but I do hear of people loosing cats to them fairly often (and owls or hawks; however, they'd get a hernia if they lifted one of my cats!). I think if you have small animals or young kids/lambs, it's best to keep them close to the house just in case and bring them in to the barn at night. I also think if you have your own farm dogs around the place it deters them a bit also. dh in nm

-- debra in nm (dhaden@nmtr.unm.edu), October 12, 2000.

I live in South Central Texas in the middle of the woods, surrounded by coyotes and all other possible livestock-killing predators. I can hear the coyotes very close by every night and once in a while I can even see them. But I am only losing an odd chicken that may wander out into the woods and may get caught by a coyote. My dairy goats including kids wander through the woods day by day, and I never lost any. My solution: Several wonderful Great Pyrenees dogs, my working partners. If you want to keep your livestock safe, my advice is to have at least one of these dogs protecting you and yours. karin

-- karin macaulay (kmacaulay@co.brazos.tx.us), October 12, 2000.

We live in south central Indiana. You can hear the coyotes howl sometimes, and it sets every dog in the neighborhood howling when they hear it. It's quite a racket.

One of our neighbors has them running in a large field in back of their home, and her puppy is terrified of them. she has two little boys, and finding coyotes in the front yard (just as bold as brass, and not minding her presence at all) is making her afraid of letting her little ones out to play. With all the deer hunters out (bow season opened this week), it might not be a bad idea to keep kids in anyway; but we have had SUCH pretty weather....

My daughter babysits for another one of our neighbors. The twins were out at their swingset with daughter and the family dog, Ebony. Ebony, normally very laid back, started a continuous low rumbling teeth baring growl. She stared into the woods, and would not be quieted. Daughter saw no snakes or strangers, then she thought of the coyotes. She immediately scooped up the twins and headed for the house at a run, figuring she didn't want to tangle with such varmits that came so close to the house.

If I see one, I'm reaching for my rifle. I have had too many cats dissappear, and one of these days I want to get some more livestock. Dogs or coyotes...either way, it is target practice time.

-- Leann Banta (thelionandlamb@hotmail.com), October 12, 2000.

We just lost a cat to one. I also don't let my kids near the woods for fear of them. We're in central Maine,btw.

-- Epona (staceyb@myway.com), October 12, 2000.

When I lived in northeast TX (almost my whole life) we had coyotes by the hundreds around our place. What seems to be causing a problem lately is coyotes and dogs cross breeding. This can make some pretty big coyotes with a lot of the fear of man bread out of them. I have run into them many times in the woods and they weren't afraid of me. I would back up while still looking at them until I was a safe distance and then walk as calmly as possible back to the house. I grew up on a cattle ranch and we lost calves every year to coyotes but roving packs of domestic dogs caused a lot more damage. We shot coyotes and dogs on site if they were near the cows. Yes even if the dogs had a collar on. In the last couple of years coyotes have become so numerous that they were a serious threat to wildlife and our farm animals. Many a night I saw them running deer. We trapped them or went spotlighting for them. People may say it is wrong but there are so many they are starving to death.....when they reach this point is when they become dangerous to people. As we take over more wilderness we will continue to have problems with wildlife.

-- Amanda Seley (aseley@airmail.net), October 12, 2000.

You should be wary .We are in upstate NY and a local farmer lost 30 lambs to them .They WILL go after young or injured stock if given the chance .The only 2 seasons I let people hunt is coyote and racoon .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), October 12, 2000.

Coyotes are a welcome site, here in Westchester Cty., NY. Sure, they are a problem for outdoor cats, and we believe my dog was bit by one last year, but they (coyotes) are the only predators of young deer, besides automobiles! The deer population here is so horrible, that it's dangerous to drive on the main roads, let alone the 'back' roads! I read last week of a law suit in NJ, filed by a man who lost his wife and son, in an accident caused by a deer, he is suing the township for failing to control the deer poplulation. Should be interesting to see how that one turns out.

-- Kathy (catfish@bestweb.net), October 12, 2000.

Coyotes depending on where you live are or may not be a problem. Here in the western states they are a problem as well as a pest. They have been known to pack and pull down large animals, I had a neighbor in Wyoming that lost 30% of his labm crop to coyots one year. Knowing the thin line that ranchers and farmers are on that could have put him out of business if it had not been for his ranch being already paid off. They do bother cows at calving and will kill a calf before it gains it's feet. They do raid chicken houses and kill small dogs and cats. They will even interbreed with domestic dogs to create the large animals your hearing about which makes them worse because then they have no fear of humans. I don't not like coyotes It always amazes me how resilient and adaptable they are but they are a problem for livestock raisers.

Suzanne

-- Suzanne Wilson (mtsuz@hotmail.com), October 12, 2000.

Katie: You must be very near us. We have coyotes, of course, but not a problem until I lost two of my three dogs. After only a couple of weeks, I found one trying to kill a chicken. It wasn't afraid of me at all. I've since gotten more dogs, and haven't lost anything to coyotes, but it's probably just a matter of time. A neighbor loses some sheep to them. Most of the guys around here also say that interbreeding with dogs causes lots of problems. I try to remember to carry my rifle when I'm out, but I really hate killing things. We're near Sneedvillle, TN, on the river.

-- Teresa (otgonz@bellsouth.net), October 13, 2000.

I'm in northern Wisc, nearly the UP. Coyotes are all over the place, but generally not a problem in that the deer and mouse populations are booming -- LOTS for them to eat. I have screamed "SHUT UP!" out the window at 5 AM when two coyotes were killing a screaming cottontail under my window -- they scrammed. My neighbor claims that a pack of them were circling his black Lab when he came to the rescue. I had coyotes (2) go after my horse and pony once -- they kicked the daylights out of the coyotes. The coyotes are not the hazard that the stray dogs are, as a rule. My fearless terriers have confronted coyotes nose to nose and if I hadn't been there to scare off the coyote, they MIGHT have been snacks (they're fearless and pound for pound great fighting dogs, but they are only 16 lbs). Coyotes traditionally have scrammed when I yell at them -- I've had stray dogs come after ME instead.

An interesting sidelight was a program I was watching on Coyotes -- they claim that if you have 'good' coyotes in your area (ones that are not harming livestock) you should strictly leave them alone; no target practice. The reason is a very simple one. These coyotes are not hunting livestock as food, and if you kill them off, other coyotes will take their territory that they have been defending, and the usurpers just MIGHT have a taste for livestock. Interesting idea.

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), October 13, 2000.

Julie, you make a good point about keeping the coyotes around that don't cause any problems.

I, too, believe that "pets" cause so much more damage to the homestead and to our desirable wildlife. Coyotes prefer easy meals, but if our dogs and cats kill or run off every rodent, rabbit and bird, then they have to catch the next easiest meal, cats, dogs, lambs and chickens.

I enjoy watching the coyotes catching grasshoppers on the prairie. Besides eating rodents and bugs, they eat fallen fruit and berries and I've seen them eating seed heads from the grasses and digging roots.

We don't have too many problems with predators here as we have two houndsmen in our neck of the woods. They have a great way to train predators about boundaries. We still have enough wild food around here to keep the cats and dogs and bears happy year'round.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), October 13, 2000.

Central Ohio: At first I thought the revival of the coyote population was nice and maybe needed to curb deer populations. But now, I'm not too sure. Besides coyotes and domestic dogs causing problems, there are a hybrid called coydogs that are the worst. Some of these mix with large breed dogs and can get quite large. The deer population hasn't been affected much, but sheep, goats and other small livestock has. But still, free ranging domestic dogs remain the major danger to livestock. I still enjoy the rare glimpse of a coyote; I know they are there, I hear them at night, but getting a peek at them remains a rarety. Had one run 20 feet behind me across my front yard one morning; quiet as a ghost...my border collie, who was cut off by the dashing coyote, absolutely went bonkers and ran for the house drooling like a drunken english bulldog! The coyote never broke stride and ignored both myself and my dog....it was at least 4-6" taller at the shoulder than my border collie...I was surprised at its size.

-- JimR (jroberts1@cas.org), October 13, 2000.

Thanks for the input, folks, really. Back when Time & I were young, we lived on Grandma's farm 20 miles outside of Duluth MN & remember stories about a time not that many years before, folks had been dumping the unwanted Xmas puppies out in the country - we all know that sad story - and some of them, apparently, had joined up with the local wolves, which must have been strange. Anyway, dogs taught wolves not to fear people, wolves taught dogs how to hunt. Critters started disappearing closer to home & was all over when one of the farmer's kid got cornered by the barn. Folks were told to keep thier dogs on a chain for awhile & the local fellas went hunting & cleaned out the woods. If it moved, it died. I don't have a problem with that at all, as Fido is the worst predator on the planet - kills for the fun of it - and if I ever saw one on my place, it's shoot well, dig a deep hole & keep quiet. Period. And, yes, I'd expect the same if it were my dog, were I so irresponsible to allow that to occur, which ain't likely in this lifetime. I have a 50 lb poodle (please don't y'all get all foo-foo on me - they're really great hunting dogs & smart as hell) but her job is to be a doorbell. Mine is to take care of biz. I'm not Jane Wayne, but not shy, either.

Still would like to hear more from y'all...................Kt.

-- K-K-K-KATIE (yarnspinnerkt@hotmail.com), October 13, 2000.

Hey y'all. Interesting delima about coyotes & coydogs. Call me a woosie-girl, but I'm totally against trapping them. Just shoot 'em if they're a problem; why torture the poor beast? Same for coydogs and wayward pet dogs (can't help but believe it's the coydogs that would even THINK of going after a human child, but they can be bold). I do think that even I could shoot them if I started loosing stock, tho. However, I only have a few goats & can keep them close, not 300 out on the range; cats stay inside all the time & dogs, too, at night; chickens go out if I'm home. And, too, there's something very exciting (don't know if that's the right word) about hearing them at night. I once lived in central Texas in the big middle of a mesquite patch. Early one morning I heard a lone yip... then several smaller yips after the kill. Puppies! Well, it was beautiful to me, city girl that I was. I do admire their resilience and I love the reminder that there is still something wild out there, something even mankind hasn't been able to eradicate. dh in nm

-- debra in nm (dhaden@nmtr.unm.edu), October 13, 2000.

KKKKatie, there's at least TWO serious poodle fans on this forum, so no need to apologize! They are my favorite dog and someday when I decide it's time to get a dog, it will be a Standard Poodle. (You know, I have spent WAY more time thinking about what dog breed to get than I ever did about whether or not to get married. Sheesh! Is that weird or what?!!!)

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), October 13, 2000.

Of course, you are talking STANDARD poodles, which are hunting dogs and very smart and embarrassed all to hell if they get funny haircuts. The teacup types are a bad imitation of a hamster. When in Alaska, a very dear friend, mentor, and wise man had a standard poodles. He said it was the smartest dog he ever owned. He had taught it not to get on the couch, and one day he came home and there was the poodle on the couch. He chastized it firmly. The next day he came home and the poodle was curled up on the floor next to the couch. He felt the couch, which was warm, and he again firmly chastized the dog. The following day, upon returning home, he found the poodle standing next to the couch blowing on it to cool it down! But I digress. Southern coyotes must be either well fed or wimps. Around here (SW Maine), they will not hesitate to tackle cats (a snack), livestock (sheep and goats usually) or deer, and it's not just the young ones. I don't believe they have the stones to tackle even munchkin people, but I am seldom very far from a loaded gun, so maybe they're just staying away from me! GL!

-- Brad (Homefixer@SacoRiver.net), October 16, 2000.

You've all heard the old saying, "Familiarity breeds contempt". The more the wildlife is around people, the less fear they have. Not being brought up to consider people their masters, it isn't too surprising if they start considering at least the smaller people possible prey. I wouldn't let coyotes keep me from wandering in the woods (nor bears or wolves, either -- yet), though I must admit that a cougar, if known to be in the area, would make me carry a gun. We hear coyotes singing in the woods across the road from our house almost every summer, and I saw a half-grown pup crossing the road in the middle of the night as I was coming home from work a couple of weeks ago. It was really pretty, the closest I've ever seen one that wasn't dead along the road! I haven't heard of any attacking or threatening people here (New Hampshire) but they are a problem with livestock. A lot of people are keeping LGD's now, or they can't keep sheep or goats, let alone poultry (actually, the racoons and weasels have gotten our poultry before the coyotes even got a chance!). My solution is very good perimeter fencing, and the right kind of dogs inside the fencing. We are getting a couple of working farm collies, but if they don't prove to be sufficient, we'll add a couple of Great Pyrenees. Coyotes and other wildlife are fine, BUT they are not entitled to eat my livestock!! I'd rather prevent problems than have to shoot them, but if necessary, I would shoot them.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), October 16, 2000.

I have heard of sightings in N & Central Fl. I just want to contribute that National Geographic, a few years back, mentioned stockman adding a llama to their herds and the llama would keep the coyotes away. Anyone have any personal experience in that?

-- Mitzi Giles (Egiles2@prodigy.net), October 18, 2000.

I live here in Far West Texas mts. I grew up in the san angelo area, i never saw or heard a coyote till i was about 17 yrs old, even though i live on a ranch. I am going to college now, there are coyotes coming on the campus where i go to school, never giving anyone much thought. it was kind of cool to here them howl at nite when i lived in the dorms.

-- Kacy Crain (kcra187@sulross.edu), March 20, 2001.

YES COYOTES ARE A PROBLEM IN MY AREA!!! WE LIVE IN A RESIDENTAL AREA AND WITHIN THE LAST 6-8 MONTHS WE LOST 2 CATS TO THEM, THE LAST CAT GOT KILLED IN MY NEIBORS FRONT YARD DURING THE DAY TO A COYOTE!! WE HAVE ABOUT 10 SMALL CHILDRED ON OUR STREET AGES 2-11 THAT ALWAYS PLAY OUTSIDE, WHO'S TO SAY THAT OUR CHILDREN OUR SAFE WITH THOSE STUPID THINGS RUNNING AROUND. I'VE CALLED ANIMAL CONTROL, AND THEY SAID THEY COULD NOT CAPTURE THEM, AND COULD NOT HELP ME WITH THIS PROBLEM. WHAT DO YOU SUGEST I DO????

-- ANN HENDRICKS (ann@hyperusa.com), September 06, 2001.

There has never been a documented case of a coyote attacking a human ever!!! Humans are not "prey" to the most hungry of coyotes ever, not even rabid ones!

However, stray and feral dogs are a real problem, to humans and animals alike, but coyotes are not to be feared by humans, even small humans.

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), September 07, 2001.

Anyone interested in Coyotes should go into the older messagess, the "Pests" section, and do a visual scan, or a search on "Coy".

My personal opinion is that any pack of canines which doesn't respect people has the potential to be killers (even worse, of course, if they've been bred to be killers). One Coyote thread was started by someone who was attacked by a pack of coyotes. Read them before you start making judgements. The one I'm particularly talking about is: http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00600B

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), September 08, 2001.

coyote attack look here too

-- nobrabbit (conlane@prodigy.net), September 08, 2001.

Nobrabbit...Those coyotes were definitely defending their family! Here in Downeast Maine we have lots of coyotes. Several times I've watched them out in my goat pasture doing the "mouse pounce" while chasing rodents. Even though the goats are nearby (does and kids) the coyotes will ignore them and steer clear. When we butcher our pigs in the fall, we always take the guts and scraps way up in our backwoods for the coyotes, vultures and other wildlife. On occasion, we have walked up there and suprised a coyote or two that were feeding...and they will practically turn themselves inside out trying to get away from us!!! Maybe in some parts of Maine there are problems, but not here. But I have had goats miscarry in the past because of the local dogs!!!

-- Marcia (HrMr@webtv.net), September 08, 2001.

Ditto here, in SC MO. The coyotes frequent the pond on the property south of me, its pretty close. Sometimes when they start singing at night it sounds like they're right outside the camper!

I have a slew of cats, and have never lost a cat to a coyote, though I did lose a kitten to possums, a cat to a raccoon, and one cat that never came home I am pretty sure was taken either by the stray dog that was shot later that week, or possibly the black leopard my son had spotted recently. Or, now that I think about it, maybe the racoon got him too. I can't prove it wasn't coyotes, except that it would be passing strange to have lived here for 3 years and have lost only my toughest, biggest tomcat to coyotes.

Since then (two years ago) I have had no cat losses to predators, and they are all out all night.

Having two dogs out all night (one on a lead, my "good" BC/heeler mix who never leaves home is loose) doesn't seem to keep the coyotes from coming as close as they always have, but we have had no more problems with racoons or possums. Or armadilloes, either.

-- Sojourner (notime4@summer.spam), September 09, 2001.

"...There has never been a documented case of a coyote attacking a human ever!!! Humans are not "prey" to the most hungry of coyotes ever..."

Untrue. Here in Southern California, they have come right down into the suburbs and attacked small children. No rabies, no territory invasion -- just healthy, hungry coyotes seeking an easy meal. My heavily horned, barbados rams were able to fight them off, but I've lost 5 lambs and 2 adult ewes, not to mention 5 chickens this year alone. Every critter that didn't have horns and wasn't locked up, died. I KNOW it's coyotes 'cause I've caught them in the act. They leap 6' chainlink fence with no effort. Unfortunately, even though coyotes are open year round in Calif., I can't shoot them at home because there are other houses too close by. Frustrating critters.

One of the local pack is darker than a typical coyote, and may be a coy-dog. Maybe not, though -- there is some natural color variation, I'm told. The rest are clearly full-bloods. They move around with impunity even in broad daylight. Galling.

-- Paul (rytwyng@hotmail.com), January 07, 2002.