Tired of the Democrats and Republicans Dishonesty and Corruption?greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread
Is everyone out there as tired of the Democrats and Republicans as I am? Do you get the feeling we are voting for two dimensional illusions constructed by the best advertising campaigns that corporate and special interest money can buy?
I saw a sit down debate between Ralph Nader and Pat Buchanan the other day and was amazed. They had very different views but were genuine in their beliefs and respectfully disagreed with one another. One of the things that they agreed on was that it was not fair to be excluded from the Presidential debates.
What do the Democrats and Republicans have to fear? Losing votes! The Democrats and Republicans want the general public to believe that they are the only parties to vote for. They are not!
Do you find yourself voting for who you dislike the least?
Remember, choosing between the lesser of two evils is still an evil.
If you are tired of the Democrats and Republicans, I suggest that you no longer give them your vote that seem to think are rightfully theirs. Have you every heard one of the two parties complaining that a independent party took THEIR votes. What arrogance!
You say my vote wont matter! What else are you going to do with it? Not use it or give it to someone who does not deserve it. Even if you vote for someone who does not win, you voted for someone you believed in and cast a protest vote against the establishment.
I do not belong to either the reform or green party. I belong to the Natural Law party, which might appeal to some but not all homesteaders. But what is important is you vote for someone with your values and interest in mind, not big corporate money.
I believe that a grass movement can someday take back politics.
Are there other 3rd party members or 3rd party want-a-bes out there? And do you vote?
You have until the 11th of Nov. to register to VOTE!
I step down from my soap box and turn it over to you.
-- Iron Man (netorcs@Mo-net.com), October 06, 2000
Well, I guess i'm a wanna be. Philosophically I agree that I should vote for someone that best suits my beliefs. But to be quite honest I would be very upset if Gore were elected because i failed to vote for Bush. The fact that Clinton got elected a second time just continues to amaze me. I believe character has alot to do with a person's decisions. In the case of the president decisions that affect my family's future. I know that change has to start somewhere though! I'll keep praying for guidance in this matter.
-- Denise (email@example.com), October 06, 2000.
Hi Ironman ~ Yep, I am sick of both of the parties, absolutely disgusted that they've have been bought and paid for by corporations. I am registered, I DO vote, and I will be voting third- party.
Denise, I hear that argument all the time, only just as many from people who would hate to see GW in office. By my very informal and highly subjective survey, those voting for Gush because they hate Bore will be cancelling out those voting for Bore because they hate Gush.
My two cents (or whatever it's worth!)
BTW, here in Wisconsin, we only have until October 8th to register. Other states may have different laws/rules.
-- Joy Froelich (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 06, 2000.
I agree with Denise that character is important. Unfortunately to me both Bush and Gore come off as plastic fake facades invented by spin doctors. I believe both have been bought and paid for. I've never heard Bush talk about shrinking federal government. He just seems to want it to grow slightly slower than Gore. And he wants to balloon our military so we can look forward to eventual higher taxes to pay the bills. If Bush or Gore wins, it just means more of the same old crap. I cant identify with either one in any way, shape, or form.
I know little of Iron Man's Natural Law Party. I can however identify with the Libertarian Party's philosophy and will be voting for Harry Browne in November. I hope everybody truly uses their vote to support somebody with a philosophy and character they can personally believe in. If that means Bush/Gore for you then thats who you should vote for.
-- Hermit John (hermit@hilltop_homestead.zzn.com), October 06, 2000.
I've voted the Libertarian ticket for as long as it's been around to vote for, the Republicans/Democrats just disgust me to tears!The only thing that is going to save this country from going to hell in a handbasket is for people to start thinking for themselves, being responsible for themselves, and to quit believing anything they hear that comes out of Washington D.C. or for that matter, most elected officials period ! Here in rural hillbilly SE Ohio, the Libertarian party is just starting to pick up some steam, but is even more advanced and well known just across the River in West Virginia. They even have a Libertarian on the ballot for the Governor's race in November, I guess us hill people will lead the revolution in this country and return the Constitution to it's rightful place of power. I believe Benjamin Franklin said " The government that governs best, governs least". I believe that also, and that is the foundation of the belief of the Libertarian party. Get out and vote everyone, come November, your vote does count!
-- Annie Miller (email@example.com), October 07, 2000.
Not my worry - not my election - I don't live there. However, I'll throw in something Robert Heinlein said - "If you can't find something to vote for, then find something to vote against". In other words, VOTE. If you don't vote, then for sure your vote doesn't count. Your vote may still not count for everything you'd like it to; but if it counts for something then you've made more of a statement than the apathetic masses who don't use the privilege of voting, and then whine when something they could have done something about "just happens".
-- Don Armstrong (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 07, 2000.
Iron Man, I just found out that I am the Reform Party ringleader up here where I live! Simply because I am "it" like a reluctant tag game or something. In the next 4 weeks I am going to be going door to door, putting up signs, writing editorial letters, and even having a meeting for others that are tired of the same old, same old. Change will only occur when the scales fall from the American peoples eyes and they realize that we do have it within ourselves to stand up and say "Enough". I believe change is....and will...begin with small poptatoes like us standing up and encouraging others to think and act responsibily as well!A third party is NOT a wasted vote--it is a vote for TOMORROW> (P.S. Go Pat Go!!!! hehehe smile)
-- Beth Weber (email@example.com), October 07, 2000.
Iron Man I also like how you said Buchanan and Nader "respecrtfully disagreed with one another". Now thats class and a true debate. Not like the juvinelle antics we saw on the television this past week with the 2 running for presidency. (Altho i will say GWB did keep his composure pretty well.)
-- Beth Weber (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 07, 2000.
The reason we keep getting this same bunch of rabble in office is because we keep voting for the same bunch of rabble. Vote for a third party if they suite you best. You will never get someone in the White House that isn't from the same good old boy network as long as you vote for the Dems and Reps. As for this idea of "throwing away your vote" by voting for someone other than the 2 candidates the powers that be throw into the ring, YOUR VOTE IS NOT THROWN AWAY IF YOU VOTED FOR SOMEONE YOU THOUGHT WOULD BE GOOD FOR THE OFFICE. IT IS THROWN AWAY WHEN YOU JUST "GO ALONG TO GET ALONG" AND VOTE WITH THE REST OF THE FLOCK OF SHEEP. If our forefathers had had the same attitude the majority of folks do today, we would never have quit being under British rule. And if their ancestors had had the same attitude, they would never have left the Old World for the New.
-- Green (email@example.com), October 07, 2000.
This is a matter that I'm very concerned about. Each of the candidates has at least one part of their platform that I cannot agree with. After at lot of thought, I've decided that I'm a firm believer in the Constitution and I do not want anyone messing around with it. I'm very worried about candidates that want to take away my constitutional rights. Once that door is open, it cannot be closed again without bloodshed. Study Hitler's Germany. That being the case, I will not vote for anyone who is advocating such. That eleminates all the Democrates.
This is going to be the hardest election I've ever participated in. I do not think I will be happy when I leave the voting booth because I will still be voting for the lesser of evils. I've never voted a part line, only for who I thought could do the job. It's just that there are so many special interest groups who are having an influence on the candidates now. The nominees just seem to turn in whatever direction the wind is blowing.
I watched 20/20 last night and saw that segment on the Clinton White House State Dinners. The report stated that, on average, 47% of the people invited were there because they were heavy campaign contributors to the Democratic Party. Some were asked why they were there and that is the reason they gave. The last dinner was so large that they had to move to a large tent on the lawn to hold the 700 party goers. It used to be that a State Dinner wasn't larger that 100 - 150 people who were specialy chosen for the occasion. It is now just another thank you, like the Lincoln Bedroom mess.
In the vast mess of the political arena, too many of us are not represented.
-- Cheryl Cox (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 07, 2000.
First of all to Joy: Wisconsin has voter registration at the polls. I don't know who gave you that date, but their wrong. All you have to do is show up at your polling place with proof of residence, be it a driver's license or just a current utility bill. Voila, you can vote. A pretty great system compared to the weeks of hell I went through to register 12 years ago in Ill. There is even a movement in Madison to get out the homeless vote by allowing them to bring someone who will vouch that they've been in the area a specific length of time and that being enough to establish residency. To the rest of you: quit concentrating on the Presidency. It is probably the least important public office when it comes to affecting our daily lives. Pay close attention to your local races, town, county and school boards, state legistlatures, congress and senate races. These are the true people who make laws that affect us all daily. That said, I wll probably vote for Bush but then suppport mainly the Libertarian candidates in the smaller races. No movement has ever grown from the top down. The more the base gets built up the easier it will be to elect true leaders to higher posts.
-- ray s (email@example.com), October 07, 2000.
Cheryl, you don't have to choose the "lessor of two evils". Both of these "evils" are dismantling the Constitution and subtling shifting the sovereignity of the USA to that of being jusy another part of the global village. GWB will throw the Christians, conservatives, etc. a bone on occasion to appease them and make them think they really have a choice. Check out www.buchanan.org, go to the link called "candidates"to check out the various positions of those running. I got a really cool letter from someone in the Reform Party concerning the third party vote....I'll attempt to post it...it's realinformative!!!
-- Beth Weber (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 07, 2000.
What I really want: Harry Browne. What I fear: Algore. What I will probably vote for: GWB. Why? I don't think Harry can win, I am scared shitless of the Communist Algore (OK! MAYBE you can convince me he's only a Socialist, but either would be the beginning of the end for our way of life, ie. Individualism and the American way!) And I believe GWB will bring us back to what we were when we were a great society, as opposed to the Great Society - an experiment in Socialism that did not work, but remains alive even today because we have too many Gimme Girls, Welfare Rats, and other folks who are just too damned lazy to work and think we workers OWE them a living! Goodness Gracious! I seem to have gotten on a soapbox! But if you read what I said, mayhaps you'll buy some soap! And do not trust the inventor of the internet, the subject of Love Story, the discoverer of Love Canal, or the First Person to engage in sucking face for 30 seconds! (He perfected that with the War Hero's buddy, Buddy!) Have a nice day, and THINK! GL!
-- Brad (Homefixer@SacoRiver.net), October 07, 2000.
Iron man I think you meant oct 11 not nov 11 as that would be 4 days late. I don't mean to be pickey but would hate for someone to try to register on oct 12 thinking they had time when they were already to late if I am right.
I am still unsure of who I will cast my ballot for I almost said vote for but I may not be voting for anyone but rather just exercising my right to vote.
I really like the internet as I have signed on to most of the parties sites that send me their position papers via e-mail. This allows me a chance to read and study everyone's point of view. To be honest it may come down to the gun control issue for me which I guess would be a vote for Bush. I have problems with every candidate but really believe that having millions of Americans armed does help in keeping washington a little leary of going to far. And if the do and we have already given up our arms we would be lost.
It is a sorry situation when the only person I will be voting for is the congressperson from my district Joanne Emerson. I also like one of the canidates for governor here in missouri. I like Jim Talent as he does most of his own adds and by that I mean he stands in front of the camera and speaks for himself. And also I know we have to watch what the news people say but I like the are they telling the truth comments on the adds running and again Jim Talent is found to be telling the truth more than his opponent Bill Holden.
I would like to encourage everyone to get registered and vote. I think a lot of the problem with government is the lack of people voting when the winner can't even get a majority of about 1/2 of the people who should be voting and then try to govern as though they have a mandate from the people. gail
-- gail missouri ozarks (email@example.com), October 07, 2000.
Cheryl, You should check out the Constitution Party at constitutionparty.org. They are 100% pro constitution and for drastically reducing the size of government. Their candidates are Howard Phillips for president and Dr. Curtis Frazier for vice president. Did all you fellow Missourians know that Dr. Curtis Frazier from Missouri is a vice presidential candidate?
-- Deb (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 08, 2000.
I'm voting, but i'm not as enthusiatic as I have been in the past. After seeing the main debates, I can't help but feel the vp running mates shape up better politically This is definatly an election to keep thinking on all the way to scratching that pencil..
-- Jay Blair (email@example.com), October 08, 2000.
Reply to Ray about voter registration in Wisconsin: You'd think I'd KNOW better -- I was quoting what was said on several DIFFERENT news stations! I thought you could register at the polls, also, but was fooled by the media! Looking into it on my own, we in Wisconsin have until October 25th to register to vote with our Municipal Clerk; after that, we may register at the polls, with the proper ID as you indicated. Whew! Now I hope I REALLY have it right this time!
-- Joy Froelich (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 08, 2000.
Cheryl, You stated that "After a lot of thought , I've decided that I'm a firm believer in the Constitution and I do not want anyone messing around with it." Has it ocurred to you yet that if someone had not "messed around with" the Constitution that you a woman would not now have the right to vote?
Debra in KS
-- Debra Newman (email@example.com), October 09, 2000.
Debra, yeah, but you could keep slaves....
-- sheepish (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 09, 2000.
Well Debra, an empirical analysis shows that this corrupt administration has never had the white MAN's vote. People who vote for security (read "nanny state"}, vote Democratic. I'm sure I'll get flamed for that, but it is only fact. I will be voting Libertarian in all races except for president. I will be voting for Bush. Ignore what he says and look at what he's done. I give him credit on two important issues. In Texas, he was instrumental in putting caps on these outrageous law suits. He also let concealed carry become law. I think he is something of a scalawag on the Confederate issue; however, I respect him on everything else. Just imagine if it had been Bush who told the plethora of lies. Imagine it had been Bush who illegally raised funds from the White House. Imagine it had been Bush who illegally took campaign contributions (originating from the Red Chinese Army) from people sworn to poverty. Imagine if it were Bush who sold the Lincoln Bedroom. Do you realize when George Bush was president, he had less than 300 guests during his entire administation? The current group of thugs living in the White House have had over in the last nine months! Duby'a wouldn't be around today! The press would have castigated him. This is a very important election. A vote for anyone other than Bush is a vote for: licensing of gunowners; more sodomite training for our children; higher taxes; more fascist control of private enterprises; more income re-distribution; more infanticide; a "grown" (as Gore put it) interpretation of our Constitution; and the very unravelling of our once, constitutional republic.
-- Jerry Hammond (email@example.com), October 12, 2000.
Jerry, I think Debra was talking about the Constitution, and you addressing the current administration/Nov. election. No big deal, I guess. Just splitting hairs...
-- sheepish (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 12, 2000.
Perhaps we will be stuck with Clinton for awhile. Seem to remember something that I read before Y2K that said the President had the authority during a national emergency to set aside an election and remain in office for the duration. If we get into a real shooting match in the Middle East, as it appears as of today, we might be stuck with Clinton. And I almost would as soon see him stay in office during an emergency, as to have either Gore or Bush making the decisions.
-- Hazel in WA (email@example.com), October 12, 2000.