I waited 10 years to have my first-born, because [just like everyone else, I thought it would hurt.] My doctor finally said, "Um...if you're going to have a kid, I'd get going on it." Okay. I picked up every book on the subject I could find, including "Childbirth Without Fear". I'd already been reading the "Our Bodies, Ourselves" series, wherein the authors talk about who is in control.

I got pregnant, kept working, kept reading, and never had ANY problems. My daughter within danced when I danced, and we both had an uneventful pregnancy [except that Rubella scare thing mentioned previously on this forum.] When I went into labor, I was scheduled to give a presentation the following Monday. I worked late into the night to prepare documentation so someone else could give that presentation, as my boss had warned me, "Anita, You'd better not go into labor before you give this presentation." Heh.

It took FOREVER to deliver this first one, but I never felt any pain. It's a weird thing [if you think about it], but we somehow associate pain with sensation. [Statements like this are what cause some women to hate me.] Anyway, I felt the contractions, and breathed through them. There's all sorts of training out there for what to do during childbirth. One just has to open their minds and accept that the experience isn't painful. [Another statement that causes some women to hate me.] There were VERY strange sensations, and I remember them, but none of them were pain for me. I consider a paper cut to be painful. These sensations were more like someone grabbing your arm really hard. As long as their nails don't sink into your skin, it resembles the sensation experienced in a contraction.

So that went on for about 24 hours and then the baby came out and all. I could have done better things with my time during those 24 hours, but I wasn't experienced at this, so just kindof observed the whole thing. I took the baby home within 12 hours or something and she slept just about the whole day and night. I was REALLY bored. I started cleaning out closets and stripping woodwork, just to fill the time while she slept. In fact, she was so innocuous that I oftentimes forgot to take her to run to the store for some milk until I got outside and realized she was still in the house.

After 6 or 8 weeks [can't remember], I went back to work and put the baby with a sitter recommended by a friend. I was breastfeeding, so I pumped milk on my lunch-hour, put it into little plastic bags that fit into empty bottles, threw the bags into a thermos with ice, and went back to work. Every day the sitter would tell me how happy my baby was. She was one of those kids who just wanted to watch whatever you were doing, and smile all the time. She did that once I took her home, too. I thought, "This parenting thing is a cinch."

About 2 years later, we thought we'd try for another child. This parenting thing was such a cinch that we probably would have gone for many more had we not had the third that stopped us in our tracks. We had the 2nd one [who popped out JUST like the first one, down to the little facial expressions], and I really wondered why I could do nothing but clone myself. Daughter #2 was a LITTLE more active than daughter #1, but AGAIN, the sitter thought her a happy little thing, and she responded much like the first when I took her home from the sitter. The second birthing was even easier than the first [but only slightly shorter...slow, but sure, speaks my body.]

We'd still not had a boy-child. Hell...we'd not even had ANY variation on a theme. We decided to shoot for a third one. We both came from three-children families, and wanted our children to experience the pain of being the one rejected by the other two siblings. [That was sortof a joke, but they DO gang up on each other.] I was still nursing daughter #2 when the boy came along, and he jumped out of the womb a very nice baby until he reached about one year. He then bit my breasts and made a fool out of himself wherever he could. He could crawl faster than I could run, and could swim faster than I could wade. He was exemplary of children I'd heard about. I FINALLY had to parent. He was NUTS!

He turned around completely about age 5 or 6, and turned into nerd-boy, but by that time, the entire world had agreed that we should have no more children, and did the vasectomy thing that stopped procreation, followed a month later by the menopausal thing that prevented it on MY part as well.

Does that answer your question, Bingo? 24 hours of labor doesn't have to be HARD labor. I don't think Flora indicated that. It COULD be, but it doesn't have to be. It's just a day.

My apologies to women who have suffered complications or pain in pregnancies and childbirth. Bingo asked why women give birth more than once, and conjured my name. My experience may not be reflective of the population at large.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), October 06, 2000

Answers

Anita,

Really cool story,you have a great way with words.You should submit this piece to a parenting magazine,very insightful.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), October 06, 2000.

Anita,

Many thanks for relating your experiences (sans gory details). ;0)

Our receptionist at work is 8 months pregnant. She is the first pregnant woman with whom I have spent large chunks of time within close proximity. This is to be her third child. She has been going through bouts of non-stop talking, sweating and eating for more than a month now.

Prior to this last stretch she was a joy to be around. I offer her support as best I can, which usually translates into a compliment (genuine) tendered now and again, an offering of fruit or other nutritious snack (regularly), and opportunities to laugh at my expense (not hard to find).

Did you suffer from drastic changes in temperment, eating habits, other personal idiosyncracies? The receptionist went through an extended period where her sex drive was in high gear and she was eager to discuss the subject with me. What effect, if any, did pregnancy have in these area of your life?

I would very much like to hear from other ladies on their own experiences with reproduction (post fertilization, of course).

Thank you all, in advance.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), October 06, 2000.

"Did you suffer from drastic changes in temperment, eating habits, other personal idiosyncracies? The receptionist went through an extended period where her sex drive was in high gear and she was eager to discuss the subject with me. What effect, if any, did pregnancy have in these area of your life?"

In a word, "None." I was no more/less sexual than I had been previously. I may have eaten more, but no one noticed. I just did all the things I'd always done, Bingo. I played Tennis three times/week for four hours with my first pregnancy, went dancing, traveled, etc. I was in a different place in time with my second pregnancy. I was in school full-time, working on my senior project in Radio-Shack's display window, and the baby was determined to stay within my body two weeks after she should have come out. [They have so much fun in there sometimes that they don't want to come out.] I was teaching while pregnant with the third one. He wasn't hungry all the time like daughter #2. He obviously liked teaching, and waited until winter break to peep out at the world.

Everyone's different.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), October 06, 2000.

Bingo:

I've GOT to share this one with you. Do you remember my story about the neighbor who cleaned my house? She's the same one who, when the doctor told her she was having a breach birth said she didn't know what that meant. He elucidated, saying that the baby was coming out backwards. She said, "Through my THROAT?"

This woman was in my home when I went into labor with my third. I BREATHED differently when I had contractions, and she stood there and said, "I feel the pain!" everytime I breathed differently. I calmly said, "Well, Laurie, better you than me, I suppose." This was really the signal for "Get me away from this nut. I'd like to go and have the baby now, and let her attend to cleaning the house while I'm gone."

She's dead now, BTW, bless her soul. She was younger than I. She was just so hyper, and EVERYTHING affected her. She was NEVER at peace with herself at ANY time.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), October 06, 2000.

Pregnancy increases blood flow to the pelvic area. I'm sure this is what makes some women more sexually stimulated. Me, I was sex-crazy. So much so, it was a little frightening lol. Ahem.

I loved being pregnant, felt so very feminine and at one with mother nature and the earth. I worked until 36 weeks, and then spent most of my ninth month down at the beach in a bikini. =0)

-- cin (cin@=0.)), October 06, 2000.

Ok, Bingo... I'll tell you why women have more than one child in spite of the fact that for most of us it feels like the scene from "Alien".

Do you ever read the failure statistics for different methods of birth control? No birth control method is absolutely certain except removal of the ovaries or testes.

-- helen (Haggard@this.hour), October 06, 2000.

Anita - Thanks for sharing your experience. Bingo, I will share my wife's experience, if that is OK with you.

Our second child arrived early on Mother's Day this year (May 14th). Unlike the pregnancy and delivery of our first child (born in Aug 97), this one was stressful and eventful from almost the get-go.

It started when my wife experienced bleeding late on a Saturday night, about 4 weeks into the pregnancy. Nothing we could do but have an ultrasound done and wait. Luckily, no miscarriage. A week later my wife found out that she was hypo-thyroid (the opposite of hyper- thyroid).

At 12 weeks my wife was told that her Maternal Serum Screen test (MSS) had come back as positive, i.e. there was a chance the baby would have Down's Syndrome. The MSS test has a high false positive rate (around 80% we were told), so we were really confused as to what to do. We had an extra-detailed ultrasound done and this came back as normal. The doctor told us that for my wife's age (37) the combination of the positive MSS test with the good ultrasound meant that her risk of carrying a Down's baby was about 1 in 200. We were offered an amniocentesis to get a definitive diagnosis. The problem was that the results would take 3 weeks (this would have meant waiting over Christmas and New Year - Y2K!) and there was a 1 in 150 chance that the amnio would cause a miscarriage. In the end we decided to take a pass on the amnio and we'd "play the cards we were dealt".

The day my wife went into labour Toronto received almost a month's rain in 12 hours. Her labour was much longer than the first time and much more fitful - it started and stopped a couple of times. (During one period when the contractions were about 12 mins apart my wife kicked my butt at Scrabble. That should tell you all you need to know about my Scrabble-playing ability; someone in the throes of labour can beat me!)

One of the best things we did was engage the services of a "doula" (as we had done for our first baby). For those of you who don't know, a doula is, essentially, a professional labour coach. In the old days, when families were not dispersed continent-wide, that role was filled by a mother or aunt or older sister. Man, was I ever glad we hired this lady. My wife's first labour was about 9 hours, six at home and three at the hospital, and she made it through with no drug or forcep intervention.

For our second baby we hired the same lady and once again she was able to coach my wife through to delivery with any intervention. (I should hasten to add that I was present the whole time doing the supportive husband thing - ice, cold face cloths, back massage etc.).

The problems started after the delivery of the baby. [For readers of more delicate sensibilities, the following is a bit gory.] The placenta broke apart and did not deliver properly. Consequently, my wife began to bleed heavily and quickly. I was later told by the doctor that she lost 60% of her blood in about 10 minutes. She was rushed from the delivery room to the OR so that they could perform an emergency D and C. In total, she was in the OR for about 60 mins and I was left to pace the corridor outside holding our (perfectly healthy) newborn daughter. It was the longest 60 minutes of my life and a lot of things went through my head.

After 45 minutes the doctor emerged from the OR to say that my wife had now been stabilized and would be brought into a recovery room shortly. I waited another 15 minutes and then my wife was wheeled, semi-conscious, out of the OR. She looked, literally, like death warmed over: white as a sheet, breathing shallowly and haggard. She was hooked up to lots of machines that went PING (for all you Monty Python fans out there!), one of which monitored her blood pressure. When I looked at it I thought it was not working properly: her BP reading was 72 over 40. But the nurse assured me that it was correct and, when she saw the stunned look on my face, she said "don't worry, it'll come up once she gets a couple units of the good stuff". And it did indeed come up - slowly - over the course of the next 3 hours.

The first thing my wife said when she was able to speak was "what happened?" The second was "we are NOT having anymore!" No argument from me on that one.

From then on things got better and better. My wife was discharged from hospital 2 and a half days later, our baby got the hang of the breast feeding thing pretty quickly and the older sibling didn't exhibit the behaviour patterns we had feared: no envy or attention- grabbing histrionics etc. I have 2 beautiful daughters and a wife fully restored to health.

In conclusion to this rather long and rambling (sorry) epistle, I would make the following observations:

1) Life can be utterly capricious (that may sound trite, but if you went through what we went through....). One day you can be chugging along tickety-boo, and the next you are facing the possibility that you may lose your wife and be left alone to care for a newborn and a 2 year old. I was asked by some people if I had any spiritual feelings or awakenings during this event, and I can honestly say that what I thought about was how unfair and crappy life could be. I didn't try and strike a bargain with God ("if you save my wife I promise to...."), and I didn't ponder the meaning of the afterlife. My wife and I are both secular humanists and tend to hold to the view that we come from dust and will one day end up as dust.

2) Have your baby in a hospital!!!! Had we gone the home-birth route my wife would almost certinly have bled to death before we would have got to expert medical help. I can't speak for the rest of Canada or the US, but in Toronto many of the hospitals have great birthing rooms which are set up to look as non-clinical as possible. If things go well you can have a delivery with minimal or no intervention, but if things look like they are heading south help is at hand.

3) Finally, don't sweat the small stuff. Really....it's just not worth it.

Regards

JC

[As an epilogue to this story, 2 weeks after her harrowing delivery my wife heard that her company was closing its Toronto office and that she and all her colleagues were out of a job. She was obviously disappointed, but she looked at me and with her very dry English sense of humour said, "still, it beats being six feet under".]

-- Johnny Canuck (j_canuck@hotmail.com), October 06, 2000.

All stories above, beat out one small one small childs story. He was born two months early, and he suffers from brain trama. Let the World hear this storm, and please pray, with blind faith, for this child.

-- Papa was a (rolling@stone.com), October 06, 2000.

Great story, Johnny. I agree completely with your item #2. I had suggested to my OB/GYN that I have the baby at home and he said, "Anita, we've just now gotten the infant/mother mortality rate down to something we can live with. What if you had [named about 10 possible things that could go wrong]? Like you, we did the Birthing Room. It's a large suite, complete with refrigerator, T.V., stereo, and fake dressers, etc. that have all the emergency equipment stored within. Family is welcome and the hospital staff stays in an adjoining room until needed. My oldest daughter watched the birthing of her younger siblings. She jumped up and down on the bed with glee saying, "Here comes the head. Look at the cute little ears."

BTW, she had to attend classes at the hospital before being allowed in the room. She saw movies of a birthing, and there were dolls that simulated mothers with babies within, etc. For several years, we attended reunions with other mothers and siblings who'd engaged in the birthing process together. My oldest was named "Our Veteran" by the nurses at those reunions, since she'd partaken twice.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), October 07, 2000.

Our hospital had a lovely birthing room, thank goodness we were there, as I needed an emergency C-section after 21 hours. My sister said in the old days, they may have just pulled him out piece by piece {remember, Bingo, YOU brought the topic up}.

'Nita, my guy was scaling the bookcases long before walking. Hasn't slowed down much yet. I wouldn't change a thing in the world, though.

A couple of odd things have remained with me ever since, I thought Rich might better relate to. I've lost what was a lifelong desire for rollercoaster rides, & can no longer tolerate the very spicy foods that I used to love. Small price to pay, in the grand scheme of things.

helen nailed the actual answer for most women, I my experience.

-- flora (***@__._), October 07, 2000.

Just popped in for a sec - wow! Thanks too all who've related their experiences. I'll be back later to respond in depth and ask a few additional questions.

Rich

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), October 07, 2000.

At the risk of brewing another tempest...

Nothing made me more of a dyed-in-the-wool sexist in a way than pulling my stint at our parent co-op nursery school. Though there were a couple of exceptions to the general rule, I can honestly say that:

In two years, I never saw a girl pick up a stick & magically had it turn into a gun. It was definitely another story where the boys were concerned. {Realize that I loved my inherited capguns as a kid, & handed them down in the toy box at home. Most parents here did not allow their kids to play with toy guns { the kids used sticks anyway, & those with the prohibition were more determined about it}}.

Though each sex built houses in the block room, girls used them for play stages {as in playing house}, boys tended to immediately tear them down with gusto - and rebuild or move on to something else.

I only saw boys build rocket ships to Mars in the block room.

Girls spent more voluntary time creating art pieces, and playing with the stuffed animals, & dolls. They both loved the real animals, we had a barn full of them.

Although the boys LOVED wearing superhero capes, I only saw girls sporting Medieval pointed hats with long flowing trains as their uniform. Of the kids I knew who wore a full daily costume as a requirement to being seen in public - the girl was Snow White, the boy - Batman { with mask, & his bottle, even in hot weather }.

Once, during a big gathering of families, two boys did go & crossdress - hats, purses - full regalia. They were quite thrilled with the reactions they got as a handholding couple. One girl talked her grandpa into letting her wear underwear for boys. She was viewed as a boy by her peers {'Becky, she's a boy, Mom'}.

Though each gender tended to throw sand in a spat, only the boys got heavily into the sand with the dump trucks. Much heavy construction, there - or was it destruction? No matter.

Several of these kids came from households where televison was never allowed, so that old saw can perhaps be put to rest in this case.

There were obvious leaders in both genders, and it was plain that kids are true sexual beings from birth {it doesn't suddenly happen in adolescence, though it does change then}.

-- flora (***@__._), October 07, 2000.

PS - The great equalizers were the pink cups. EVERYBODY fought over who got to use one of the pink cups! {As opposed to the other available colors}.

-- flora (***@__._), October 07, 2000.

Final thought:

At that age, most of the boys either had, or desired to have their own Barbie dolls. Now that they are manly teens, I wish I'd taken more pictures...

-- flora (***@__._), October 07, 2000.

I'm a bit confused about multiple births being due in MOST women due to failing contraception. While I would agree that many FIRST pregnancies are due to ignorance, the birth control pill has been around for a LONG, LONG time, and its efficacy rate is labeled 99% [mostly because studies can't account for the 1% who SAY they're taking the pill, but FORGET to take it.] The diaphram, used with an appropriate spermicide is 99% effective, as well, and may be used during periods when one is nursing, etc., where the pill would cause side-affects.

Even the condom [when used with an appropriate spermicide] effectively eliminates procreation. I just don't see birth-control methods failing an excuse for multiple procreation. If one doesn't want more children, there are at least 10 possible methods of birth control available that are proven to be effective. Someone, PLEASE show me what I've missed on this one.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), October 07, 2000.

I don't know if it's so much a failing of the methods, or more likey the failing of the practitioners.

-- flora (***@__._), October 07, 2000.

Only wanted one. Did everything humanly possible to keep from having more than one. Didn't trust any type of birth control. If you use it, it will work, they said. Still didn't trust any type of birth control. Girl, or boy, made no difference, but only wanted one. Finally, still didn't trust birth control and had bandaid surgery. Didn't trust doctor to do the right thing, so told him, "Don't tie those tubes, cut them--as in slash. Then cauterize them--as in sear." Never had but one. All those that have more than one are clogging the highways and schools and supermarkets and farmland and hiking trails and mountains and desert and every where on earth and beyond on and on and on. Viva la one! Better yet. Viva La None!

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), October 07, 2000.

You're precious, Gilda. I remember once telling my boss as a young woman that the world had enough people and I didn't intend to increase the population by reproducing. He said, "Anita, YOU'RE not the one who shouldn't be reproducing." I don't think he meant that as anything but a compliment, although some could say that the comment had other hidden meanings. Oddly enough, it's that boy of mine that may be the one with the greatest ideas on how to reduce pollution, etc.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), October 07, 2000.

Anita - do you ever tire of bragging about yourself?

-- Catherine (the@great.one), October 07, 2000.

The question is, "Do we ever tire of reading Anita's stories?"

ANSWER: Heck no!

Love ya, gilda. Viva La None! ROTFL!

flora & Johnny, want to thank you for sharing your experiences with us. I really can't imagine what it might be like to have a hand in creation on such a scale.

I do have many more questions and comments, but services call. Enjoy your day, everyone.

Rich

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), October 08, 2000.

You're welcome Bingo, just in case you were going to thank me for my experience. {major eye roll}

-- cin (cin@=0.)), October 08, 2000.

Cin,

Thank you for your experience,you get major points with me cause of the beach thang : )

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), October 08, 2000.

To quote myself (spelling error remains intact): "Thanks too all who've related their experiences."

Cin, I do believe I have you covered in the above, do I not? If you wish for something a little more personal, you need to get your tail to LV this weekend. I'll treat you to a ride on a roller coaster.

Rich

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), October 09, 2000.

Papa, I do pray for you and your child. The measure of a good labor and delivery is one that results in a healthy child.

I taught LaMaze for a few years and have had the pleasure of dealing with over one hundred couples and their preparation for childbirth. It was a requirement in my classes that after the birth, the couples needed to call to tell me of their experience. No two experiences were the same, though some may have been similar. After one of my first classes, a couple had a stillbirth. Fortunately that was the only time I received a phone call with such news. I never forgot that and stressed the real purpose was to have a healthy child.

Over time I came to realize that home birth was not always a good choice, as one post said. A friend of mine nearly died giving birth at home. I stressed to my students to find a center and a group of doctors that they felt comfortable with. The climate was changing very rapidly in hospitals that taking a chance at home birth became senseless. If they are armed with the right information they can make informed choices about both the facility and the doctors caring for them.

My first two were born at the hands of nurse midwives. The military hospital had contracted out the OB/GYN staff to the university in town, fortunately. We had no problem getting the kind of care we wanted. With all my children, I stayed in the hospital less than 24 hours. The hospital needed to justify next year's funding and wanted me to stay longer but sorry, I wasn't sick and didn't need the care. With the third one, the stay was only six hours. I showed up a work with a newborn in my arms and no one believed she was mine.

Anita you were very lucky. Had you given birth in California, you would have had a caesarian. Thanks to the rise in lawsuits, doctors don't take chances. It's considered a dysfunctional labor when it reaches 24 hours. At that point, they bring in the surgery tools and of course this leads to a longer recovery period.

Flora, you hit it. Boys have this innate thing with trucks that girls don't get. The idealism in me at that time would not promote "sexist" toys for my children. Somehow they found their own level of sexism. Even though at times my son did play with dolls, my daughters never picked up on trucks or transformers.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), October 09, 2000.

Maria:

My oldest daughter "played" with trucks. I remember coming into the room when she hit her little sister over the head with one. Her sister didn't even wake up. She also put clip clothespins on all her sisters little toes. She didn't wake up for that one, either. Thank goodness we didn't have a garbage disposal.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), October 09, 2000.

Couldn't resist adding this article I came across this a.m.

http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSHeyMartha0010/09_baby-cp.html

Monday, October 9, 2000

Baby makes a splash

OTTAWA (CP) -- Talk about making a splash.

An Ottawa baby dived into the world early Saturday morning -- right into the family's toilet. Eight pound, four ounce Denis Larocque made the unexpected arrival at his home at about 2:30 a.m. He was 13 days early.

Amanda Sheperd Larocque, 26, was in the bathroom when her water broke. The baby followed immediately after.

"I wasn't pushing or anything, he just came out," she said. "I didn't even realize he was out at first. I didn't know to expect him. I was really scared."

Larocque had been feeling contractions, and her husband Claude was in the process of calling for an ambulance when the baby arrived.

He quickly rushed to the bathroom and retrieved the baby, who began crying after hitting the cold water. Paramedics arrived soon after to cut the umbilical cord.

Mother and baby spent the rest of the night in hospital and returned home Sunday.

The couple, who already have ten children between the two of them, said the child would be their last.

"I was happy I gave birth so fast, but I wasn't happy that it was in the toilet," said Larocque.

-- (Ottawa Sun)

-- viewer (justp@ssing.by), October 09, 2000.

Oh My God

"I wasn't pushing or anything, he just came out,"

And Anita thought a few of the ladies on the forum might be pissed at her???

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), October 09, 2000.