Okay, after chuckling over Cindy's Drake farting contest, a serious question occured to me. I was burbing my grandson and when he finally obliged, I found myself saying "What a good boy you are. That was soooo good of you." Now I've taught school, and I've raised boys and it seems as though it takes forever to teach males not to belch and fart in public. They always seem to think that women are kidding when we complain. Is is because their mothers and grandmothers told them what "good boys" they were for the same behavior when they were infants? Just a thought. What do all of the men out there think? (I know I'm going to regret this. I've now, single handedly set good manners back a thousand years by giving men and boys an excuse.) Or perhaps they are merely laying scent to mark their territory.

-- Cheryl Cox (bramblecottage@hotmail.com), October 06, 2000

Answers

A lot of what we learn to do in this world is learned by example. My father didn't, I don't, and I wouldn't tolerate it in my household. If you wish, call me a prude, but please, by no means rude.

Television is filled with it, how can kids not think it proper?

-- Notforprint (Not@thekeyboard.com), October 06, 2000.

At one time bleching after a meal was a compliment to the host. I'll add to your thread. Beside the glare off of balding heads (and, yes, I'm a member in good standing of that club), why don't men take off their hats in restaurants? Having to go back too many times to retrieve it?

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), October 06, 2000.

You've hit a nerve with this one! This is a pet peeve of mine, along with spitting. Even worse (I can hardly bring myself to print this!) is the repulsive act known as "farmer's blow", in which a guy holds one nostril closed while blowing forcefully out the other, to expel whatever is hiding up there. My husband (normally not a disgusting guy) did this ONE TIME in front of my son, who thought it was the greatest thing since...uh, nevermind. Now the boy does it regularly, even though I'm on him like a ton of bricks whenever I see it. Being the only female in a house full of males, I feel personally responsible for teaching them that certain things are inappropriate and disgusting, wether they get a laugh from it or not. I totally agree it's about setting examples...my friend doesn't care if her two sons fart & burp in public, so they do. My kids would never do it, or if they did, they would be embarassed and say "excuse me", without a giggle, either!

-- Shannon (Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary) (gratacres@aol.com), October 06, 2000.

I'm really interested to see what the answer will be here and will pass it along to my daughter. She is a fifth grade teacher and this has been a real problem in her class this year. Both the girls and boys are passing gas "forcefully" and thinking nothing of it. She has talked to them about the lack of concern for others this shows and even used the example of someday being with a member of the opposite sex and wanting to impress them and how it makes another person think less of you. It's falling on deaf ears, I think with these kids it's partly an attention getting behavior and mostly lack of being taught manners. (Do people teach manners to kids anymore, sometimes I wonder). I think it goes along with all the other permissiveness that society is allowing us and a reflection of our general lack of respect for other people.

I guess another question is why do people seem to have so much gas to release now days? This is a reflection of what we eat, right?

I do have to stand in defense of the older group, sometimes it just slips out and surprises everyone.

-- Betsy (betsyk@pathwaynet.com), October 06, 2000.

You can get in the Guiness Book of Records if you can burp the loudest. It certainly isn't just a man thing. I know it's not good manners but, it's better to laugh at it that get an ulcer.

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), October 06, 2000.

I agree with Notforprint. It all comes down to manners and whether or not you are taught them. When we were kids, we were taught a lot of manners and were made to follow them. Consequently, I find quite a bit of behaviour rude. This includes all of the ones mentioned above as well as not holding a door for someone, not saying please and thank you, cutting across immediately in front of someone when you are walking down the sidewalk so they have to change their pace to avoid hitting you, yelling across a room instead of walking over to talk to them, taking more than your share when someone is offering something. This last one really grates on me sometimes. I work in an office and frequently will bring in some produce from the garden. We have fifteen people in the office and depending on what I bring in, I usually can't even carry fifteen of each item because I ride in a vanpool but invariably there are a few women who will take three or four tomatoes or cucumbers just because they are free when it is obvious there are not even enough for everyone to have one. I was raised to take one and if later on there seems to be leftovers then you can go back for a second. I guess it is just the mentality of I am going to get mine (and yours) and the h*** with you. I would really like to see more manners and consideration for the other guy brought back into our lives. But I know it won't happen. Nowadays people can't seem to raise their children well enough to not beat each other up or worse, so why should I expect that they would teach them common courtesy and manners. Oh, for the good ole days!!

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), October 06, 2000.

it saves a lot of wear and tear on another part of your body.ha ha woope roflmao. bob in s.e.ks.

-- Bob Condry (bobco@hit.net), October 06, 2000.

The men in my family simply do not do any of these things in public because their parents brought them up not to. Our three sons were the only ones in their crowd who would automatically take off their hats indoors, especially in someone's home. Interestingly enough, ALL of our childrens' friends would immediately take off those stupid ballcaps when they came into our home (if they did not, they risked my husband or I saying " HEY! were you brought up in a barn?" "We do not have roosting chickens in the house, so no need to protect your head" This was always said with laughter and friendship..the guys would laugh and take the caps off....now that some of them are in their 30s, they tell me they LIKED being taught manners! BTW, when I was growing up in Boston, the subways used to have signs warming that "Spitting is a crime, punishable by a $100 fine"....it is not only the epitome of crude, but a serious health hazard.God bless

-- Lesley (martchas@gateway.net), October 06, 2000.

I guess we shouldn't even go to the toilet seat thing...

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), October 06, 2000.

Guess it's a matter of perspective..When we lived in Korea, the people there thought we were rude for blowing or wiping our nose in public. That is something they never do! What they do do, however, is somehow clear their noses by spitting! They do it on the sidewalk, and it is totally gross. I would wake up during the night when someone walked by our house, and spit, and call out "DON'T SPIT!" It was the one thing I never got used too. Never could figure out why some men (not all, thankfully) have to spit outside all the time, either. We're not talking about those who chew tobacco, either. Is there some reason? Women don't do this. Jan

-- Jan in Colorado (Janice12@aol.com), October 06, 2000.

With all due respect to my polite and cherished men friends, I think belching in public is one of the least offensive things in a list of offensive things that guys may do. Out in the South Forty is one thing; in front of polite company is a whole different setting. I really don't care for those other noises that often portend a rather odious emanation, either; nor do I really care to watch men scratch themselves in the nether-regions; nor do I appreciate when they make less-than-clandestine adjustments within their trousers. I also don't care for either sex making an excavation into their noses, and find it appalling should the contents then be be dispatched as though enjoying a veritable smorgasbord. Ad nauseum.

Blessings to those who taught their kids (of both genders) manners. Blessings to those wonderful kids! I would rather society err on the side of too many manners, bordering on pretension, than for what passes as couth these days. EEEUYUCK!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), October 06, 2000.

Okay, Sheepish -- I was grossed out when I started reading this, but you just sent me over the edge.

Strangely enough, I have an EXTREMELY well-developed gag reflex, and I'm not "roflmao" -- I'm "rfbbmdu" (running for bathroom bringing my dinner up".

This string is getting to me -- but before I go, I've got to say that one of the most ANNOYING things that men do (amongst a veritable sea of annoying habits) is an even tie between the toilet seat thing (I darned near killed my husband one morning about 3 am when I was eight months pregnant -- icy water on the derriere at eight months pregnant, in the dark, while half asleep at three in the morning darn near qualifies as grounds for divorce!) AND of course, the "plumber- crack". What is so difficult about either A)buying pants that fit, or B) wearing a belt??? Hairy guys (which plumbers for some reason tend to be) are the WORST!!!

-- Tracy (trimmer@westzone.com), October 07, 2000.

Ugh. This isn't exactly pleasant nighttime reading! After reading all this, I can truly appreciate how nice and well mannered my husband is! But I, too have some pet peeves: wiping one's nose on their shirt sleeve, and people who when at a potluck,shove their way to be near the front of the line, and then when they get to the lasagna, scoop off most of the cheese from the top, leaving the filling for everyone else. Usually it's men, especially young men, that do this. Then there are my boys, who if we would let them, fight over who gets to lick out the ice cream carton when it's empty! They would tear it into strips and lick each piece! I didn't mind if they cleaned it out with a spoon, but finally enough was enough, now the carton goes straight into the fire!

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), October 07, 2000.

I consider it inappropriate also, however , a young guy at work considers it funny, especially when he excuses himself by saying "Pardon my burping, my hineys not working." It was a chuckle at first, just hope I'm nowhere around when his butt comes back from the shop.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), October 07, 2000.

And another question Why is male bashing considered acceptable but bashinh others offensive, and who decided it is our responsibility to watch over the toilet seat? I think if you are old enough to use the toilet then you can figure out where the seat goes to fit your personel needs.

-- Tom Calloway (Calfarm@msn.com), October 08, 2000.

Tom, About the seat. In our house, we put the whole thing down , lid and all. This eliminates the arguement and no one wakes to any feminine banshee wails at 2 a.m.. As far as "man bashing", any married man will tell you "its our job, we are responsible for everything that goes wrong in the world, including pms. start the day with a smile, apologizing for everything you've done, will do, may do or something a unrelated male failed to apologize for, go out into the world knowing you did your job well and shop for tools , fishing gear or shotguns at lunch." My wife told me this one.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), October 08, 2000.

I would assume that all these males you see doing these things were just not taught good manners. Luckily my mother (who passed away 11 years ago) taught me good manners. As for the toilet seat thing, I used to put it down like I found it until several years ago while urinating and the sun was shining in, I was appalled to see splashing droplets coming up out from the toilet. I decided then and there to sit when going. My wife works hard enough cleaning. I am not going to have her clean up a toilet coated in urine drops. I know gals, I should be helping her clean, but at least I do this much!

-- Michael W. Smith (kirklbb@penn.com), October 08, 2000.

I didn't think that I was male bashing. Sheesh. The topic started out to be about males; I also mentioned something that I noticed that involved both genders; and quite honestly, women do some pretty gross things, too. However, I think as girls we were taught to be more aware of other's perceptions of us, and therefore, as adult women, we don't do as many disgusting things in public. That's all.

I did all the male bashing I needed to about 25 years ago. I'm done. I now bash everyone freely.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), October 08, 2000.

Michael, that was an astute observtion -- I wish ALL males would sit down!! That's why men's bathrooms smell so bad, and no matter how well or how often they are cleaned, you can't get the odor completely out. Wise parents would start their little boys sitting down when they start potty-training -- going standing up is for out in the woods!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), October 08, 2000.

I'm sorry, but it will be a cold day in hades when I squat to pee.

As far as the gas is concerned, perhaps many of us men are aware that it is far more healthy to expel something that wants out of our body, rather than to fight to keep it in. Once it has escaped, we may try to make a joke out of it to hide our embarassment. I know that I do my best to only make the SBD type, but it doesn't always work. I know that diet plays a big part in this, but I know that alot of men, especially younger "growing boys" eat like pigs. We swallow a lot of air with our food because we are just shoveling it in. That air has to go somewhere. I try to be considerate of others and remove myself to an area that is unpopulated, but this is not always possible.

Farting and beltching are not bad manners, but cutting loose in the company of people that are offended by this behavior is. So what you need to teach us boys is how to know when to leave.

Now, how do you feel about peeing in the yard? This is one of my favorite activities, and something I like to brag about to my city friends. I am looking forward to teaching my son to appreciate this freedom that living in the country gives a man.

-- Wayne (plefor@hotpop.com), October 09, 2000.

Ugh! This is just a little more than I needed to know......

Oh well, the title warned me, but my curiosity got the better of me! I will consider myself warned next time, he-he! God Bless! Wendy

-- Wendy@GraceAcres (wjl7@hotmail.com), October 09, 2000.

whizzing in the yard is not just for men only! i live in the boonies and i piss outside with my dogs. the men in the household, having better aim, piss in the compost pile. the way i figure is, why waste all that good nitrogen? also why load the septic tank unnecessarily with pee and flush water? we pee inside only if the weather is absolutely intolerable. our bathing facilities are outside as well. living in nature means living!!! as for the toilet seat thing, if i am visiting a man's house i leave the seat up.

-- Juno redleaf (gofish@presys.com), October 09, 2000.

Putting the seat AND lid down serves a purpose that has nothing to do with the user, stander or sitter. It keeps your animals from drinking out of it (bacteria and chemicals), it keeps your toddler from playing in it (same reasons), it keeps things that don't belong in there from falling in, including your toddler. I consider putting the lid down to be common courtesy and common sense.

As far as "breaking wind" or belching in public, I am not offended IF the perpeptrator offers a genuine apology. Making a (usually crude) joke about it makes an bad impression, on me at least!

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), October 09, 2000.