The great deception" : LUSENET : TB2K spinoff uncensored : One Thread

the "Great Deception"

We Americans are informed, right? We are progressive and open-minded, right? With all our technology, and all the information available to us, we are really on the ball, right? No one could defraud us and get away with it... right?

That remains to be seen. A massive fraud has been committed, and so far, the vast majority of Americans remain duped. The deception has been so successful, in fact, that stating the truth sounds absurd (even when it is provable).

"What deception? What are you talking about?"

Congress could not, and did not, impose a tax on the income of most Americans, because of the strict limits on federal power imposed by the Constitution. (Click here for an article concerning Constitutional restrictions on Congress' taxing power.) This was not an accident or oversight; they did not even try to tax the income of most Americans. What they did instead was to impose a far more limited tax, and write the law in such a way that it could easily be misinterpreted, both by the public and by the tax professionals. After reading the first few sections of law, it seems quite clear to most people that a tax has been imposed on their income. The law has been misrepresented to the public, both by the IRS and those in the tax industry (usually due to ignorance, rather than intentional deceit).

For a detailed proof and extensive documentation about this issue, go here to download Larken Roses Taxable Income report.

(Subtitle C "employment" taxes, sometimes called "Social Security" taxes, are independent of the income tax and are not dealt with by this site.)

"Is this one of those tax protestor arguments?"

No. The people who are wasting effort protesting the law most likely dont know what the law says. People have used many arguments (some with some merit, and some completely off-the-wall) in an effort to stop giving money to the IRS, but for the most part these have been ineffective. It is, therefore, easy to jump to the conclusion that the material here is just another one of "those tax-protestor arguments." It isnt. But the proof of that is in the material itself. The position described on this site is based entirely on the federal statutes and regulations themselves. There is no leap of faith or "creative interpretation" required to reach the conclusion. The truth of the matter is that there is a part of the law which most tax professionals either have never seen, or have never completely understood. When this part is examined carefully, it becomes clear that the tax professionals have been grossly misinterpreting the entire federal income tax code.

A good indicator about the correctness of the Taxable Income report is the dismal failure of the IRS and the tax professionals to refute it. Rather than just presenting one side, this site even shows the arguments of "The Other Side." If any tax "expert" has some argument that is not yet covered by the article about "The Other Side," please send an e-mail so your comments can be included on the site.

"So is this some big conspiracy?"

This is more a conspiracy of ignorance than a conspiracy of fraud. Yes, this did require some people in government to intentionally deceive the public, and then to make an ongoing effort to conceal the truth. But the vast majority of IRS employees and tax professionals do not know the truth. (Click here for an article about "Ignorance, Fraud, and the Great Deception.")

"My income isnt taxable? Thats ridiculous!"

As Hitlers minister of propaganda said, "if you tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth." Everyone "knows" that most income is taxable. It is so widely known, in fact, that most people would never bother to examine the actual evidence. (And this is what gives rise to the above phenomenon.) For the rare individuals who are willing to examine the evidence for themselves, Larken Roses Taxable Income report proves the above claim, using extensive legal citations for each step. Having never seen the law itself, the average American will swear under penalty of perjury (on a tax return) that he owes federal income tax. After all, if his income wasnt taxable, the "experts" would have told him so.

"The tax experts cant all be wrong."

Actually, they can. Unfortunately, like everyone else, "experts" are susceptible to some imperfect aspects of human nature. Throughout history, the so-called "experts" in medicine, science, etc. have generally ignored whatever evidence contradicted their preconceived notions. The same is true of modern-day tax "experts." When given a piece of evidence that would shatter their career (and probably their world view), it is much easier for them to just dismiss the evidence. For those tax professionals who dare to challenge their preconceived notions, or for those who would like to challenge the expertise of their favorite tax "expert," we have a short Test For Tax Professionals. For those tax professionals who will actually address the issue using the statutes and regulations themselves, we welcome their comments, thoughts and arguments.

"My tax-preparer says this is all nonsense."

Assertions are easy to make. "The moon is made of green cheese." See? If a self-proclaimed tax "expert" can say "thats nonsense," and you will blindly take their word for it, then this site is not for you. If flashing "certifications" and "licenses" at you gains your utmost respect, and nullifies your desire for actual proof of their claims, this site is not for you. If, on the other hand, you deem yourself fit to examine the evidence for yourself, youre in the right place. Most (if not all) tax professionals in this country learned about tax law by listening to the prior generation of "experts," instead of by examining the statutes and regulations themselves. Because of this, the tax-advice industry has been instrumental in spreading and perpetuating the biggest fraud in the history of the planet. Most tax professionals are guilty of incompetence. (The few who know the truth, but do not tell their clients, are guilty of something far worse.)

"Will you show me how to stop paying?"

No. The purpose of this site is not to advise any action or teach some "method" for combating the IRS. The truth by itself is not enough. The law by itself is not enough. The IRS will fight anyone who doesnt pay up, whether there is any legal basis to do so or not. While there are indications that the overall fight is becoming more effective and hopeful, the IRS is still a force to be reckoned with. More info on this...

"If you dont pay, you go to jail, right?"

If you believe the law requires you to pay, and you dont pay, you can go to jail. However, if you have a credible, solid reason for believing that the law does not require you to pay, prosecution becomes a lot less likely. In fact, if you believe you owe nothing, it is a felony to sign a return stating otherwise (though its a bit unlikely youd ever be prosecuted for over-stating your tax liability). (Click here for an article regarding "Willful Tax Crimes.")

"Well, if you arent going to save me from the IRS, whats the point?"

The purpose of this site is to spread the truth to as many people as possible. While there are many "in the trenches" taking on the IRS directly, if a significant portion of the populace knew the truth, this fraud could be ended without each individual having to "stick his neck out."

"But if we dont pay our taxes, how will government function?"

"Why can't you just pay your taxes like everyone else?:

"Why don't you want to contribute to this great country by paying your taxes?"

These and many other similar questions, are entirely irrelevant to the information on this site. However, because they come up so frequently, they will be briefly addressed here.

"Who is this Larken Rose guy, anyway?"

Larken Rose is a not a lawyer. He has never received formal training in tax law, or any other kind of law. He has no special degrees or credentials regarding tax law. He earns his living in a business unrelated to tax law.

"So why should I take his word for anything?"

You shouldnt. You are personally responsible for determining your tax liability. Blindly believing assertions (whether from tax professionals or Mr. Rose) does not negate that responsibility. We advise determining the amount of your tax liability based entirely upon the actual federal statutes and regulations. It is not Mr. Roses intention that anyone "take his word" for anything. The statutes and regulations say what the statutes and regulations say, whether they are pointed out to you by Charles Manson, Larken Rose, or the Commissioner of the IRS. If after reading Mr. Rose's Taxable Income report, and examining the actual statutes and regulations, you believe your income is taxable, file your return and pay up.

"Ive looked at the stuff, but I cant believe this could be true."

"Okay, Im convinced. But I still dont dare to take on the IRS."

Whether you are convinced that the information on this site is correct, or you are just wondering if it is, there is something very simple you can do, which doesnt require taking risks, and costs a whopping 33 cents. You can ask your "representative" to answer a few simple questions. If the information on this site is correct (hint: it is), then Congress has a lot of explaining to do. If it isnt, then wouldnt it be best to have your "representative" explain to you the error? Click here for a simple, polite letter which can be sent to your "representatives." (A confession: While you may just want the issue explained by your Congressman to satisfy your own curiosity, our "ulterior motive" to having such letters sent is to put pressure on those in Congress to learn the truth, and admit the truth.)

Another easy thing to do is spread the word. Feel free to refer people to this page, or e-mail them the Taxable Income report. And if you know any tax professionals, by all means either refer them to the Test For Tax Professionals on this site, or send them a copy of it (along with a copy of "Taxable Income"). In fact, if you feel the need, feel free to put all the weight on us, by phrasing it in a way such as: "I find this hard to believe, but take a look at it:" After all, you're allowed to ask people to look at something, even if you aren't sure if it's true. If we're wrong, then telling more people will more quickly expose our errors (don't hold your breath). If we're right (and we are), it's time for this fraud to end.

How to contact us:

General information:

-- truth seeker (, September 29, 2000


Hmm. Guess the gas bill has to go out. That time of the month again.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), September 29, 2000.

Yep, FutureShock -- at least once a month, regular as clockwork.

Why is it that this forum seems to attract and retain certain percentage of tax nuts (no, not you KoFe -- you're too lovable to be a "nut"), while others who's differences with reality are of a different flavor (i.e., LunaC) have gone away, or gone on to greener pastures?

-- E.H. Porter (Just, September 29, 2000.

I just wish more of these paper tigers felt strongly enough to serve some prison time.

-- Ken Decker (, September 29, 2000.

Why Kenny?.... are you hopeing to jump on the band wagon after it's all safe to do so?... Why don't you use that so celibrated critical thinking ability of yours and read the codes and statutes before opening your mouth and looking stupid...

Ya, I know, the Fed courts have ruled on this a number of times, and the induvidual can't fight the IRS, the courts, and/ or City Hall by themselves... it will take a revolt by a large % of the people in this country to get the Monster off our backs.

Look into it with that incredible Mind of yours..... throw away your preconcieved notions and " tow the party line" mentality, and see the constitution for what the founders ment it to be... There is no reason for the US to be the Worlds police Force, the support structure for any 2 bit country that wants a hand out, nor do we need a military that can defeat the whole world at any time..... that's just ego talking and we pay a very high price for that bit of hubris.

Look at it with an open mind, I know you have one, and try to see things the way they really are, try to see outside of the box you grew up in...... ask yourself why you are paying around 50% of your hard won dollars in taxes of variouse kinds... and if what you are getting for those $ are worth what you are giveing up..... look around and be true to yourself.... then give me a reasoned responce.

True regards, Eric

-- Netghost (ng@no.yr), September 30, 2000.

Illiterate? Write for free help.

-- Flint (, October 01, 2000.

Hey Flint,

guess which finger I'm holding up?... you know you're # 1... :-)

-- Netghost (ng@no.yr), October 01, 2000.

You know Flint?..... I always kind of respected you... even when you argued both sides..... I lost it when you and Kenny did the "Ant hill kicking thread on De bunker"... I know you were just talking amounst friends, but that really showed where both of you were.... egotists..... how do you get your head thru the day?..... do you sneer at anyone that is "Illiterate" in your eyes?......

Do you giggle when someone doesn't use a spell checker like you do?... fuck you and the same kind as you.... take your ego and stuff it right up your concieted ass.... and if you don't like the way I spell things... just remember, you're # 1..... ;-)

-- Netghost (ng@no.yr), October 01, 2000.

Ghost, you left two of the toilets in the club house of the Trailer Park dirty again. This is the 3 warning I've had to give you in the last 2 months. I realize that you have to spend time on the net hassling the pollies but don't forget, I pay you good money to keep this place clean.

Consider this your last warning.

-- Banned Person (, October 01, 2000.

Is one of you guys really Lady Logic?

-- Huh? (-@-.-), October 01, 2000.


My spell checker is called a dictionary. It's the only spell checker I use, and anyone can use it. The question is, do you care how you present yourself? Do you think it's worth the bother and time to proofread and correct your own errors? Do you ever wonder whether correcting your own errors might somehow be better than attacking anyone who notices what you were too lazy to correct?

And could it possibly occur to you that if your spelling is full of easily correctible errors, your opinions might suffer this same problem? And that blaming others for your errors might serve to insulate your skills against actual improvement?

-- Flint (, October 01, 2000.

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