Hi all.

Sorry I havent been checking my email..does anyone know how she is?

Thanks,

sumer

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), September 25, 2000

Answers

Sumer:

I spoke with her on Thursday. She has been thrilled with all the support from everybody. She is a very strong lady who is in a very difficult position. She seems to have the resolve to see it through-I would guess at least 3 months in the rehab hospital(my guess-not the doctors). She believes she made a choice not to leave this plane while she was in the coma. She thinks there is unfinished work to do and is determined to do it.

I admire her strength and courage to see this through.

To all:

As I said, Bonnie has benefitted greatly from all your help. Let's keep up the good work.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), September 25, 2000.

>> She thinks there is unfinished work to do and is determined to do it. <<

Anyone who can write that well, with such depth and insight, is a treasure on earth. We need her to stick around and just be herself for as many years as possible. No other "unfinished work" is more important than unfolding your own life in front of God and everyone.

Give her my warmest regards next time you talk to her, FS.

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), September 25, 2000.

Dumb question -- I've been away for quite awhile. What happened to Oxy?

-- (doomerstomper@usa.net), September 25, 2000.

Oxy was hit by a truck on 9/6/2000 and is in a rehab hospital with multiple fractures-back, orbital, etc.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), September 25, 2000.

I think I talked to her on Thursday or Friday, after FS. I was impressed by how much stronger her voice is than a week earlier. She also was thinking more clearly. Her humor is there, I sensed no great depression. I think she said that she would be seeing her doc today. She needs more surgery---I'm not sure what except her broken leg needs to be re-set.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), September 25, 2000.

>> Oxy was hit by a truck on 9/6/2000 and is in a rehab hospital <<

BTW, if Oxy is suffering the double-whammy of financial wipeout to go along with the physical injury, it would be good if we helped her form a plan and gave her a helping hand in implementing it (as soon as she has some brain space for such matters).

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), September 25, 2000.

Count me in. I don't know her, but I'll gladly contribute to the Save Oxy fund. Anyone who clings to life that tenaciously has earned my respect.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), September 25, 2000.

Thanks for the reminder, Consumer. It's been a week now since I sent the woman a card and snail-mail. I have it sealed and ready to go, but I'm fumbling around looking for her address and stamps. It's amazing how the top-level on my desk can become the bottom-level in just a week's time.

Count me out on the fund stuff. I can't afford health insurance for MYSELF, or a long-distance carrier to call. My only contribution at this time will be weekly cards and snail-mail letters....not to mention the cyber-vibes I send, as well.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 25, 2000.

>> Count me out on the fund stuff. <<

What I had in mind was not so much a fund, but some help with the first-level planning, just to help her to identify what is needed and where it might come from. Sure, it might turn out that collecting some donations might be a component of the plan, but putting our heads together might be more valuable than the pittance this forum could scare up out of our own pockets.

Even if she is well-covered by insurance, putting one's life back together during and after many months of intensive rehab is an uphill fight. Having a brain trust, pooling knowledge and experience, tipping her off to resources she may not know about - that's more on the order of what I was thinking. Not just passing the hat.

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), September 25, 2000.

Like doomerstomper, I had no idea what happened to Oxy. I don't remember a thread about this here, was there one?

I've always wondered about what happens to people who just "drop off" this forum. I'm glad Oxy had personal connections on here to let us know.

Brian, that's a great idea. I've learned so many tips from this forum (again today with the Sprint/longdistance thread someone posted a nifty website, loweryourbills.com, very useful). If I was hospitalized, I'd want to bring my laptop with me so I could log on here, if nothing else at least for entertainment ;)

Perhaps we could still pass the hat to get her a cheerful present of some sort. Something to let her know people here think of her and to cheer her up. I'd chip in a few bucks. Annonymously ofcourse ;)

-- (smarty@wannabe.one), September 25, 2000.

Maybe someone who is geographically close to Oxy could be the coordinator for such a fund. As well as give us a better idea of what we can do.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), September 25, 2000.

Brian:

WOnderful idea. Count me in in whatever capacity. I think Deedah and CD are in FLorida. I do not want to volunteer them, per se.

LArs:

You are right. She did sound stronger this week. And she cares deeply about the folks here. A small gift at first would be great. Any ideas in particular, anybody?

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), September 25, 2000.

If she was hit by a truck, was it the trucks fault? Even so, if she has car insurance and the truck has insurance, they should pick up the medical bills. Does she have family to handle her affairs? Also, a lawyer should be contacted to help with the legal matters. If she was not at fault, I'm sure a good lawyer will take the case with no upfront money from Oxy.

-- two cents worth (justtwocents@twocentsworthhh.com), September 26, 2000.

will someone please write, "Thanks. I'm praying for you," and sign my name to the card. Thank you.

-- (bygrace@thru.faith), September 26, 2000.

Due to recent personal circumstances, I have only been able to keep up with her situatuion via the forum. But since you asked and are taking suggestions FS...

I think something solid she could focus on and channel her energies on would be useful. Has anyone seen the "friend's" pillar candle holder? I got one for my birthday. It is a terra cotta type casting, at least in this area. It is shaped as four upright humans, standing in a circle, arms outstretched to each other, each one's hands and fingertips on the next on's shoulders, in support and caring, in a loving circle. When you light the center pillar candle, in the evening, the "friends" figures dance on the surrounding walls. It really is something. I don't know if the rehab would let her have candles, but the thought of caring, supportive friends, visualized in clay, may be helpful for her. Any thoughts folks?

I am willing to locate and send if the majority thinks it would be appropriate! Do advise...

-- Aunt Bee (Aunt__Bee@hotmail.com), September 26, 2000.

Bee:

I love it. Go find it girl.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), September 26, 2000.

That's a great idea AB.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), September 26, 2000.

The original Oxy thread can be found here.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), September 26, 2000.

Brian-

Because I don't know Oxy, I would not feel comfortable offering advice or guidance for her situation. It seems a little presumptious for me since I'm not familiar with her situation. I don't have a problem with anyone else doing that, it just goes against the grain for me personally.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), September 26, 2000.

Is this what you're talking about, Aunt Bee? There are a number of variations, but this one is 10" high and the cost is $40.00.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 26, 2000.

Well, my typing skills just aren't up to par this morning. Let's try that one again.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 26, 2000.

Not knowing her domestic situation (job, family) I wouldn't know what to advise, but if she has needs and can get them to someone here, I'm a pretty good gopher for finding funding available.

Recently got a friend (stroke patient) a motorized wheelchair FREE including free shipping, through SS. Another had a sudden onset devastating spinal deterioration -- no insurance - no income because of injury. I called the state HRS office near her and got a case worker to come out to HER HOUSE within 2 hrs.

They got her on immediate benefits, and relieved the stress of food and a roof over her head. Supplemental money for utilities. They are also back paying her medical for the previous 3 months (medicaid). Her kids now have free medical/dental available and they are even offering tech school tuition for her daughter! All benefits available within 2 hrs. She was in ICU for a month and can't work for a year min.

heheh - also got social security on the horn and had the case worker begging me to stop graphically describing her injury (cadaver vertibrae (sp?) replacement) offering to rush her case through :-)

There are so many programs available, that when she is ready or the need arises, I'd be willing to gopher for her.

doomerstomper -- who rarely takes "no" for an answer, when it comes to finding a solution :-)

-- (doomerstomper@usa.net), September 26, 2000.

>> Because I don't know Oxy, I would not feel comfortable offering advice or guidance for her situation. It seems a little presumptious for me since I'm not familiar with her situation. <<

Makes sense. But this doesn't need to be an insurmountable obstacle.

My guess is that right now Oxy needs emotional support more than anything else. The more the better. Later that will change. As she emerges from the hospital and starts to deal with all the paperwork, red tape, deferred housework, continuing complications and contingencies caused by her injuries, she'll be facing an enormous variety of demands on her time and (still-limited) energy.

When Oxy feels strong enough to start tackling these kinds of problems, she will know which of them to bring to us and which to bring to her nearby support network. She can define what she needs from us, when she wants it.

What we are likely to be good at is brainstorming new approachs when Oxy gets stymied. We are a diverse group and we can shed the light of our own experience on places where Oxy and those close to her may have little experience.

They say two heads are better than one. It is a powerful thing to be able to tap into 30 or 40 people who can instantly start to brainstorm solutions for you to consider. All she has to do is post here and within a day she will have an exhaustive discussion on the ins and outs of the problem and several possibilities for answers. A lot of CEOs would kill for that.

I know Oxy is a smart, capable woman. But she's going to be drawing on her every reserve of strength dealing with unfamiliar demands. Under those conditions everyone hits a wall from time to time. However much or little Oxy actually needs this kind of help from us, knowing it is there, available at all times, is likely to give her some added strength and hope. It adds one more circle of support surrounding her.

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), September 26, 2000.

You guys are so very thoughtful and compassionate. It's really an honor to be associated with y'all.

My thoughts and prayers are still with her. And they will always be -- until the day she's overcome this.

I stand at the ready to contribute to helping her with ideas or research in any way I can.

-- eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), September 26, 2000.

Hey 'Nita.

I hadn't seen the picture of the one with seven humans encircling each other in friendship-it is very nice. Mine and the ones I have seen are only 4 people. Nice Pix, BTW, someone will have to teach me how to use this old scanner someday. Let me see what I can find. I already promised a four person to another forum member, but hadn't found anything lately. Let me see what I can find. Anita, did the pix come from a commercial source? If so, email me the address when you have time!

-- Aunt Bee (Aunt__Bee@hotmail.com), September 27, 2000.

Aunt Bee:

The one pictured above is from Spirit Path. It's called "Circle of Friends."

There are other variations on the theme [with different numbers of friends] at Gifts On Line. The pictures on this site lacked color, so one couldn't get a feel for how they looked IRL.

The fewer friends, the cheaper the candle-holder. [grin]

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 27, 2000.

I did not know wether or not to start a new thread. Hopefully everyone will need this. Oxy may need our help sooner than later.

I spoke with her this evening. She was feeling very down, and has had thoughts of not being able to "make it". This is to be expected, considering the critical condition she is in. I did not get a good vibe from the facility, and her soon said she is not happy there-but they have an issue with her medical coverage in that they do not want to pay to move her to another facility.

She needs our prayers now more than ever. She is in a lot of pain (after all, we do undermedicate in our health care system) and I definately got the impression she is not happy with the care there.

Not sure what we can do, but as Brian said, we are a resourceful bunch. Some of you know my e-mail if you want to correspond privately. Let me know your thoughts. I am in touch with her son and can convey your words.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), September 28, 2000.

FS:

Doomerstomper seems to have solutions for these no-pay type solutions. If he/she sends me an E-mail, I'll pass it along to you. [wondering now if I'm one of the ones that has your E-address.]

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 28, 2000.

anita-did you keeo any of the emails from rich that went out to the group? If not, your addy is real, correct?

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), September 29, 2000.

FS:

I think I still have a few in my hotmail inbox from Rich, and YES...the E-mail is real.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 29, 2000.

FS, regarding the issue of pain; there is no reason why she should be suffering so much. Her doctor(s) will order the pain medication if she insists on it (if they haven't already done so on their own), but she must ask the nurses for her dosage. They will not bring it to her automaticaly. Some nurses will ask their patients if they're in pain and offer pain meds, but too many don't. She shouldn't feel guilt or embarrassment asking for it. She should ask for her next dose BEFORE the last one has completely worn off. It takes longer for the medication to take effect and relieve the pain when the pain has had time to take a strong hold.

In the past several years, many studies have shown that constant severe pain causes depression, and depressed people have an even lower threshold to pain. Depression also impairs recovery. A vicious downward spiral. Those same studies have found that patients taking strong pain meds like morphine and demerol for severe pain do not get addicted. (This fear of addiction to morphine and similar pain meds stems from WWII injured vets of whom many did become addicted, but it was later found those who did were taking the morphine for easing mental pain also, well past the time the injury had healed.)

I would suggest to you that next time you talk to her, explain all this to her and encourage her strongly to take control over her pain management.

-- (smarty@wannabe.one), September 29, 2000.

Anita:

I have sent you an e-mail.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), September 29, 2000.

Thanks for the update FutureShock. And the more personal update in Bok's last night. Please be sure tell Oxy (as well as Ty) she is still included in our nightly 11:00pm service and the power is on full.

Might I be expecting an email from you as well?

-- Aunt Bee (Aunt__Bee@hotmail.com), September 29, 2000.

FS what would it take to get her moved? Monetary donations? A few phonecalls to the HMO, or facility? Please let me know what I can do. Thanks

-- cin (cin@=0.)), September 29, 2000.

TO all:

I will try and talk with oxy's son over the weekend-see what is really up. I will start a new thread here when I know.

-- FutureSHock (gray@matter.think), September 29, 2000.

anita -- I'll email you in a few from my real email addy.

If Oxy has health insurance, it is alot harder to get her assistance. I've found you are better off sometimes with no insurance. You have more choice in care selection than an HMO. I'll still try to help in any way I can. I'll email you anita for the particulars if you have them.

When I had back surgery several years ago, I suffered with pain waiting for the nurses to show up. Usually late at night is the worse time -- no one wants to answer the buzzer. Knowing that doctors and nurses are not gawd, I called my husband and told him to bring me pain meds from home. He was there within 40 mins. I quit asking the doctors for what I needed. Even an asprin when needed is the difference between suffering and a good nights sleep.

That's a solution if she has meds at home. IF she is aware enough to properly medicate herself. IF she is familiar with contra-indications from the medicines she is prescribed and she uses "her own" sparingingly.

Not knowing her condition or pharmaceutical knowledge (including over the counter meds) I'd hate to pass along that advice to her though.

The worse thing in her situation though is to take a passive patient role/demeanor. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. The hospital should also have a PATIENT ADVOCATE on staff. I believe it is a federal law now. Not sure.

Sounds like she should have a family member with her, if possible -- as a go between. My friend with the stroke's husband was admitted to ICU last fall, and here was my poor friend in a wheelchair with her daughter and the doctor told her, " You might as well go home. We don't think he'll make it through the night. We'll call you". SCUSE ME???!!

heheh-- my husband and I raced over there and got ICU on the horn from the waiting room. Within 30 mins we were all in ICU visiting him. It's unfrigginbelievable how callous doctors/staff can be. Never take no for an answer. Most times the staff is overworked and your needs go ignored. She has to be assertive or have someone assert themselves for her until she is able.

-- (doomerstomper@usa.net), September 30, 2000.

Here we go again with "trying to help", ala TB2K. Playing medical advisors on the internet is easy, but the consequences for the poor helpless person could be disastrous. Doomerstomper's advice on having someone bring meds from home is a bad one. Doctors need to know exactly what medication is in the patient at all times while under their care. If the patient takes medications behind the doctor's back and then he prescribes something for whatever the patient's condition requires that day, the patient could suffer dire consequences from medication incompatibility or overdose of depressants.

-- (b@d.idea), September 30, 2000.

that's why the IF's were in caps bad@idea. I agree, if someone doesn't know what they are doing they best leave pharmacology to the experts. But, it amazes me how ppl will pay $5. for an asprin in the hosp, when they can use their own. Most patients become little children when the "uniform" comes around, and don't ask questions or options for their welfare. Then they complain when things aren't going well.

If you know what your medicine IS and what is DUE @ that time, and you use an alternative and don't take THEIRS, there is little harm -- IF you know what you are doing. If you're in bad shape and they don't know what is wrong with you, it could be disasterous.

I guess I give ppl on the internet a whole lot more credit for common sense than I should :-)

-- (doomerstomper@usa.net), September 30, 2000.

I talked to her today. She is not pleased with Integrated Health, St Pete. It is more of a nursing home than a Rehab facility altho they do have some PT. She has been moved 3 times. She has had roomates with Alzheimer's including one lady that kept attacking her broken leg. She finally got moved away from that person. The phones often do not work. She does not have a TV or Internet connection.

I think she said she is now in room 20A (Bonnie Fowler). The phone number for the Integrated Health facility is 1-727-896-3651. Sounds to me like she needs a strong person nearby to act as an advocate. Her son is in town but he has personal complications that limit his time. She has talked to a lawyer but I don't think anyone has taken her case on contingency. Apparently the dork that hit her does not have deep pockets. I don't know the current status of her legal situation or her monetary situation.

Having spent time in a Rehab Hospital, I know that a good Rehab facility can be a very positive (and expensive) experience. She is definitely not in a great Rehab facility. I didn't get much info on her current medical status but I thought her voice still sounded good. She mentioned having a good talk with FS recently.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), September 30, 2000.

Integrated Health is one of many nursing homes that over the last few years have started providing 'sub-acute' rehab services. Sub-acute, meaning the patient is not 'acute' enough to be in the hospital, but is not yet physically ready to withstand the rigors of a regular rehab hospital. Some of these sub-acute facilities are better than others. Almost all of these nursing homes got into this 'specialty' because of the financial need to keep beds filled. Integrated Health is one of the larger 'chains'. I've had considerable experience with this industry (and yes, it IS an industry - profits first), and rate IHS as 'mediocre', at best. It's been my personal experience (with over 20 years in the health care field) that the lowest bidder wins the contract. Imagine that . . . And, on a professional level, I would NOT work for this company, based on what I've heard and seen over the years.

I concur with the advice that Oxy needs an ACTIVE advocate, especially under these circumstances. Ideally, this should be someone who can devote a considerable amount of time each and every day to 'bird dogging' the staff and doctor(s). It could work as a combination of several, motivated, knowledgeable people if the lines of communication are kept open between the advocates.

Something to consider is that most HMO's offer limited choices for special needs such as Oxy has, but usually do have more than one choice. What typically happens is a discharge planner has a 'preference' of facilities (and this can be a preference based on other than quality of care, let me assure you!), and might have not communicated all the options to whomever was making the decision on where she was go to. It would be worthwhile to find out if there are other 'sub-acute' rehab facilities that are participating members of her HMO, and investigate them as other options. As I said before, most 'sub-acute' facilities ARE nursing homes; but some facilities are better than others. It's maybe worth a look-see.

-- I'm pulling for Oxy (Everyone needs@n.advocate), September 30, 2000.

"I'm pulling"--

Thanks for the info. You sound very knowledgeable. Something just occurred to me---I wonder if it is possible to hire a professional advocate for Oxy. Someone that knows their way around the medical/legal/government/insurance leviathan. Could we, as a group, hire a qualified person in St Pete to act on Oxy's behalf and report to us?

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), October 01, 2000.

Great ideas coming. I had wanted to talk to Oxy today-or her son-but we had a death in the family-which some of you know.

I am not sure when I will be able to talk to her, but if someone can get a message to her, please let her know my wife may be willing to take on her case-she is an attorney in NY and soon to be in NJ-but she can "waive" in in Florida-we talked about it today and my wife thinks she can help.

I am not able to do much right now-with being strong for my wife in her lose-but i will be back in a few days to do whatever I can.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), October 01, 2000.

Just my 2 cents on the other driver. IF Ox has her own auto insurance and the idiot that hit her doesnt have enough coverage, she can go under her own Uninsured/Underinsured portion of HER auto coverage. IF the guy works for a tow truck place, there SHOULD be top limits. If he is self employed, not real good then try to look at UM coverage.

It works like that here in Ohio, but I know Florida is a PIP state.

I hope my 2 cents is worth something. FS, your idea is most honorable.

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), October 01, 2000.

Sumer, it's my understanding that Oxy was a pedestrian when she was hit. And now that you mention it, why isn't HIS insurance Co. paying for any of this? Sounds like she should have some major funds coming to her.

-- cin (cin@=0.)), October 01, 2000.

We just had extensive experience with HMO health care and rehab facilities. The "better" rehab facility was only covered to 50%. The "not so good" rehab facility the HMO wanted to use was only covered to 80%.

The family did the math. They couldn't realistically pay off 20% OR 50%, so they went into debt on the "better" facility.

Is it ok to call Oxy in the day time?

-- helen (b@q.p), October 01, 2000.

Well, once again you mental midgets have already convicted the tow truck driver in this incident. Of course, all of you heavy thinkers have all of the facts in hand and came to the obvious conclusions. Get well oxy and pray that these forum idiots do not meddle with your life as they dont seem to have one of their own.

-- I (h@ve.spoken), October 01, 2000.

Do us all a favor...DON'T speak

-- cin (cin@=0.)), October 01, 2000.

I-

You stupid motherfucker. You said the wrong thing on the wrong day. The stupid fuck driving the truck was drunk, you stupid fuck. With all the people here expressing their love, misguided or not, you type in this stupid shit. You ignorant piece of white trash. You should crawl back under the belly of the maggot from which you came.

Who the fuck are you? Why the fuck are you on this thread? Do you really give a fuck about oxy? Or do you get your jollies being holier than any of us.

Give us all a break and jump in a pit of molten lava mixed with sulfuric acid.

-- FutureSHock (gray@matter.think), October 01, 2000.

Well, once again you mental midgets have already convicted the tow truck driver in this incident. Of course, all of you heavy thinkers have all of the facts in hand and came to the obvious conclusions. Get well oxy and pray that these forum idiots do not meddle with your life as they dont seem to have one of their own.

-- I (h@ve.spoken), October 01, 2000.

^^^^Excuse me there pal, but I DO have a life, I stated my 2 cents worth or cant you read?

As an Insurance Agent, I was 'offering' up what lil knowledge I do have. Being that it WAS a DRUNK DRIVER, there SHOULD be coverage? But you wouldnt know that because you DIDNT take the time to READ before you attacked us mental midgets.

FWIW, you are EVERYTHING FS said and at ANY point in time, FEEL FREE to take his advice, it wouldnt bother me one lil bit.

Now, poof be gone

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), October 02, 2000.

FS, I sent you an email to verify Oxy's address and room number. Please reply. Thank you

-- cin (cin@=0.)), October 02, 2000.

You stupid motherfucker. You said the wrong thing on the wrong day.

OMG FS -- you da man!! I like your style. Sometimes you just have to let it rip and the shoe definitely fit on that one :-)

-- (doomerstomper@usa.net), October 02, 2000.

I talked to Oxy briefly by phone Monday. She was in physical distress (severe pain in butt/pelvis I think) but I thought she sounded upbeat. I have never heard her sound otherwise.

There is someone on this forum who is doing something very thoughtful for her. I won't say who (it's not me); I won't say what. Maybe it will come out in time.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), October 03, 2000.

To the top.

-- David L (bumpkin@dnet.net), October 12, 2000.

Ok, the latest as I know it. Bonnie re-entered St Pete's Bayfront Hospital on Monday. She had been at Integrated Health Services, a sub-acute care facility for several weeks. I talked to her in the hospital on Monday. It was not clear to me why she was there. More evaluation for sure, more surgery maybe.

I called again this afternoon at 5:45 her time. Her voice was very weak and her words were hard to follow. I may have wakened her or she may have been medicated. All I know is that she was groggy.I didn't talk long because she sounded in distress. I would post her bedside phone number but I am not sure she is up to fielding many calls. Write me directly and I will send it to you. I am worried for her.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), October 12, 2000.

Thanks, Dave. Oxy should stay on everyone's radar. I hope and pray she's coming along ok.

-- eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), October 12, 2000.

Oops...thank you too, Lars, for the update. We must have cross- posted.

-- eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), October 13, 2000.