http://www.rnc.org/GoreFiles/goress_050300

There He Gores Again
Gore Just Can't Tell The Truth

Gore Says Administration Didnt Really Propose Investing Social Security Funds In The Stock Market

"Why should we believe you would tell the truth as president if you don't tell the truth as a candidate?"
-Bill Bradley to Al Gore, Democratic Presidential Debate, January 26, 2000

The Gore Lie

When asked about the Clinton/Gore Administration plan to invest Social Security funds in the stock market, Al Gore said:

We didnt really propose it.  We talked about the idea.
(Dan Baltz & Terry M. Neal, Bush Hit On Social Security, The Washington Post, May 2, 2000)

The Truth

The fact is that the Clinton/Gore Administration didnt just float this idea in the State of the Union Address.  They have proposed it in their last two budget submissions to Congress.

Fiscal Year 2000 Budget
(submitted February 1, 1999)

Increase Returns Through Private Investment:  The Administration proposes tapping the power of private financial markets to increase the resources to pay for future Social Security benefits.  Roughly one-fifth of the unified budget surplus set aside for Social Security would be invested in corporate equities or other private financial instruments. (Budget of the United States Government for Fiscal Year 2000, The Presidents Framework to Save Social Security, Budget, p. 41) (emphasis added)

Fiscal Year 2001 Budget
 (submitted February 7, 2000)

Transfers To Extend Social Security Solvency: The President also proposes to invest half of the transferred amounts in corporate equities.  (Budget of the United States Government for Fiscal Year 2001, Saving Social Security, Budget, p. 37)(emphasis added)

Gore Has Supported Investing In The Stock Market For Several Years.

Gore In 1999.  President Clinton proposed this year to begin transferring 62 percent of projected budget surpluses to Social Security, to put more than $2.7 billion into the system over the next 15 years. He said about $700 billion of it should be invested in the stock market for increased returns. Gore supports the administration plan.  (Walter Mears, Tough Issues Unavoidable in 2000, The Associated Press, November 27, 1999)(emphasis added)

Gore In 1999. On the Democratic side, Vice President Al Gore is wedded to the Clinton Administration proposal to invest part of the Social Security trust funds directly in the stock market,  (Veneeta Anand, Presidential Hopes: Candidates Hawk Their Proposals For Social Security, Pensions and Investments, June 28, 1999)

Gore In 1999.  Gore backs the Clinton administration plan to use the $3 trillion in surpluses over the next 15 years to pay down the national debt, boost economic growth and thus increase future tax revenues. He would earmark the money for Social Security and Medicare by placing IOUs from the general Treasury in the programs trust funds.  The government would invest the rest, about $700 billion, in the stock market for Social Security. (Ron Fournier, Social Security becoming key issue in presidential campaign, The Associated Press, June 4, 1999)

Gore In 1999. In Wassau Gore also said it may make sense to invest a small amount of Social Security in the stock market to get an extra infusion of some money in the system. (Anthony Jewell, Gore: U.S. Must Close Pay Gap Between Men and Women, The Associated Press, April 12, 1999)

Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan, Economist Milton Friedman And Others Disagree About Government Investment Of Social Security Funds

Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan.  As I have indicated in earlier testimony, I doubt that it is possible to secure and sustain institutional arrangements that would insulate, over the long run, the trust funds from political pressures.  These pressures, whether direct or indirect, could result in suboptimal performance by our capital markets, diminished economic efficiency, and lower overall standards of living than would be achieved otherwise.  (Alan Greenspan, Testimony to House Commerce Committee, March 3, 1999)

Economist Milton Friedman.  I have often speculated that an ingenious way for a socialist to achieve his objective in the United States would be to persuade Congress, in the name of fiscal responsibility, to (1) fully fund obligations under Social Security and (2) invest the accumulating reserves in the private capital market by purchasing equity interests in domestic corporations.  (Milton Friedman, Social Security Socialism, Hoover Digest, Hoover Institution, 1999 No. 2.)

CBO Chief Dan Crippen.  After the transaction, the private sector would hold fewer equities and more debt, but total national wealth and national saving would not be appreciably affected.  Moreover, the technical problems cited by Chairman Greenspan might turn the President's economically neutral proposal into one that could harm the economy.  (Dan Crippen, Testimony to Senate Budget Committee, February 23, 1999)

American Enterprise Institutes Carolyn Weaver.  With large (and hidden) risks and uncertain benefits, policy makers should reject the idea of centralized investment.  The United States has the largest and most sophisticated financial markets in the world, fully capable of managing the investments of American workers.  The government does not belong in this line of business.  (Carolyn Weaver, How Not to Reform Social Security American Enterprise Institute, August 1998)

Former CBO Chief Robert Reischauer.  On the other hand, the pressures special interests place on lawmakers and the stresses imposed by reelection are probably greater now than they were in the past.  For these reasons, many justifiably continue to be concerned about possible political interference in trust fund investment activities.  (Robert Reischauer, Testimony Before House Committee on Ways & Means, March 3, 1999)

Favorable Remarks From Democrats And Others On Social Security Reform

Sen. Bob Kerrey.  Senate sources said yesterday that Mr. Kerrey, who has decided to retire from the Senate at the end of the year, made it clear that he would support Mr. Bush's campaign initiative.  (Donald Lambro, Bush Wins Support On Social Security, The Washington Times, May 2, 2000)

AARP Lobbyist Evelyn Morton.  Even AARP, which has been hostile to an idea long pushed by libertarians and traditional conservatives, now says it has an open mind about Mr. Bush's proposals to change the venerable New Deal-era program.  We welcome it as an option to look at. We think the idea should be put on the table and discussed and considered, said Evelyn Morton, a legislative lobbyist at the AARP.  (Donald Lambro, Bush Wins Support On Social Security, The Washington Times, May 2, 2000)

Sens. Moynihan, Breaux and Robb.  Other Senate Democrats who support the partial privatization idea - though not necessarily all the details in Mr. Bush's eventual plan - include Sens. Daniel Patrick Moynihan of New York, John B. Breaux of Louisiana, and Charles S. Robb of Virginia. All three, plus Mr. Kerrey, serve on the powerful Finance Committee, which oversees the Social Security program.  (Donald Lambro, Bush Wins Support On Social Security, The Washington Times, May 2, 2000)

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), September 21, 2000

Answers

You should quit picking on Gore, he is on your side. He wants to lower the price of oil by releasing our reserves. He might be the only person in the world that will make your WRONG prediction finally come true!

-- (jeepers@creepers.sneakers), September 22, 2000.

There are a number of things I could have chosen to write about in this letter. I could have chosen to write about how Cpr accepts -- or, at least, feels obligated to pretend to accept -- the ideological premises of communism. Or I might have chosen to write something about the way that he doesn't understand politics or simply doesn't care. But, instead, I've decided to devote this entire letter to explaining how I find much to disagree with in Cpr's credos. Some background is in order: Cpr spouts a lot of numbers whenever he wants to make a point. He then subjectively interprets those numbers to support his words while ignoring the fact that if he can one day accelerate the natural tendency of civilization to devolve from order to chaos, liberty to tyranny, and virtue to vice, then the long descent into night is sure to follow. I would not have thought it possible that bettering the world is apparently the last item on his "to do" list, but it's absolutely true.

I, not being one of the many beer-guzzling insurrectionists of this world, challenge Cpr to admit he was wrong and thereby begin the healing process. Cpr and his avaricious cronies must laugh about this in private, knowing that every time Cpr tries, he gets increasingly successful in his attempts to trample over the very freedoms and rights that he claims to support. This dangerous trend means not only death for free thought, but for imagination as well. His expostulations are more often out of sync with democratic values than aligned with them. It is also worthy of note that we must overcome the fears that beset us every day of our lives. We must overcome the fear that he will pose a threat to the survival of democracy. And to overcome these fears, we must purge the darkness from Cpr's heart.

Cpr's lackeys perpetrate all kinds of atrocities while alleging that they are simply not capable of such activities and that therefore, the atrocities must be the product of my and your feverish and overworked imaginations. Although Cpr is only one turd floating in the moral cesspool that our society has become, from secret-handshake societies meeting at "the usual place" to back-door admissions committees, his henchmen have always found a way to increase society's cycle of hostility and violence. His values make many mainstream purveyors of malice and hatred nervous. That proves that I want to give parents the means to protect their children. That may seem simple enough, but as our society continues to unravel, more and more people will be grasping for straws, grasping for something to hold onto, grasping for something that promises to give them the sense of security and certainty that they so desperately need. These are the types of people Cpr preys upon. And there you have it. If Cpr's assistants are frightened that he might force us to adopt rigid social roles that compromise our inner code of ethics some day, they have only themselves to blame.

-- (smarty@wannabe.one), September 22, 2000.

Way funny, Smarty...is expostulations a real word?

-- KoFE (your@town.USA), September 22, 2000.

More good reading for the SHEETED "ANONS" who I have decided not to bother answering until they un-Mask themselves with real addresses and names.

LINK

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003qPS

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), September 22, 2000.

Here's why I don't post anon:

Charles P. Reuben says again he has collected "deep background files" on "Y2K fruitcakes" such as some of the people on this forum

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001cm3

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

One of the two chief proponents of the "TB2K Forum as Religion" theme is Charles P. Reuben (cpr) of Debunking Y2K and Gary North is a Big Fat Idiot forums. Doc Paulie is the other, Decker merely took up the cudgel, but all the usual suspects parrot this idiocy (Paul Davis, Maria, Buddy, Cherri, Deano, Pat, Patricia, FactFinder, Anita, etc., etc.). Yet cpr declares in the post below that he has spent 2.5 years of his life fighting "the fruitcakes" full-time and he keeps one of his 50mg files OFFSHORE. This person has taken 2.5 years out of his life to debunk people like us, goes to all the trouble of putting his "deep-background" files in an offshore bank vault--and he says WE'RE the ones who have a problem??? Hell no, I'm not using my real name and I'm not posting over at his lousy forums, either, with IP njumbers displayed on one and Paul Davis no doubt ready to give them away on the other. If this psycho gets after me, God knows what he'll do. He's already automatically bounced (along with Stephen Poole) from some European Y2K forums--I guess they have much stricter policies than TB2K. No wonder there's so much disruption by pollies over here--this nutbag spends every waking hour on his psychotic crusade.

http://206.28.81.29/HyperNews/get/gn/1588/1.html

You assume that regulars here keep up with GN, EY's pit and all the other pig pens. No so.

Forum: Gary North is a Big Fat Idiot Forum

Re: No offense CPR, I believe in your position and all, but (John DEERE) Date: Oct 21, 13:37

From: cpr

I doubt you know who visits here and how valuable their time is. They are not going through each and every one of GN's posts daily looking for what we know to be stupid either technically or from a business point of view. Many first time visitors here write me or some others to tell us that we have "set them straight" on Y2k. That won't be necessary much longer because few believe the Garys of the world anymore.

I don't think you quite understand that I have spent 2.5+ years of my life fighting the Y2k Fruitcakes .......full time.

My view on them is far different than most people. I could do "deep background" on about 30 of them and track about 70 more.

Many have exited the Y2k scene or were flash in the pan one-shots. Some posting to the EY Pit are frauds and merely a regular writing "fiction" under a screen name. North has posted about 10 hoaxes which he doesn't bother to correct. He got nailed for one and even made a post of it today (the Fed Ex. charge card number had a 666 in the total and Gary never caught it. Which sort of implies he is either a dummy or he planted the story).

I consider that my "public service" and will never do something like this again. I take absolutely no money or deals involving Y2k. Given my normal earning power you may assume this has been an expensive proposition for me.

I consider opposing North and Yourdon to be of vital importance and now that it is almost finished, do not regret it for one minute. For the past 4-6 months or so I have considered them to be a joke.

Some of North and Yore-Toasty's posts are ludicrously funny. Some are not.

In some cases, I post for the historical record. We must learn from this mess (the first Internet based hysteria) or we will see far worse. I keep 2 copies here, one off site and one off shore of all my Y2k files now well over 50 megs.

I just let the absurdities of what GN, Hyatt,Lord and EY say speak for themselves. In addition, many people stopped going to Brer Duct Tape's and go to de Jager or Yahoo's dailies instead.

Many of the posts here (especially the earlier ones) will have some historical value after 2000.

I don't expect GN to maintain all his older posts not even the GN site. I have the earliest ones of his in zip form and stay current.

-- Just (a@regular.regular), October 21, 1999

Answers

Be still, my heart.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), October 21, 1999.

Fruitcakes?

Thanks for reminding me to stock up. Those keep well in a cool place, and the tins can be reused.

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), October 21, 1999.

Consider this: With all the time and attention that those morons supposedly devote to going over Gary North's www.garynorth.com site with a fine tooth comb, WHY did they not do what North has invited anyone to do -- simply set up a web site using the SAME links to the evidence that he does, but give an OPTIMISTIC commentary? I mean, would that not be the logical thing to do??

The only drawback, of course, is you have to actually cough up the optimistic commentary for the overwhelming evidence that Y2K is going to be TEOTWAWKI. And Paul Davis' crap about running trains on peanut oil can only go so far.

-- King of Spain (mdrid@aol.cum), October 21, 1999.

Jay should be here soon selling

*************G-e-n-u-i-n-e Y-2-K F-r-u-i-t-c-a-k-e-s*****************

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), October 21, 1999.

CPR Your post was magnificient!Now,if you'll just sign on the dotted line we can proceed with the labotomy.

X....................................

-- one_flew_over_the_cuckoo's_nest (you're_toast@in_the_present_tense.com), October 21, 1999.

http://www.nypostonline.com/commentary/16529.htm

IS BIG BROTHER READING YOUR E-MAIL? October 21, 1999 By ROD DREHER

WANT to give a big, fat finger to Big Brother today? Fax or e-mail this column to a friend. Be sure to include the following words:

Unabomber. Anthrax. Fissionable plutonium. North Korea. Militia. Delta Force. Ruby Ridge.

If the suspicions of Rep. Bob Barr (R-Ga.), the American Civil Liberties Union and cyber-libertarian "hacktivists" are correct, your fax or e-mail containing those words will have been intercepted by a sophisticated official electronic monitoring system called "Echelon."

see nypost for the rest...

-- The Luddite (luddite@knowsall.com), October 21, 1999.

Hey, lighten up. CEEPER's kind of a pocket buddy of mine. Back pocket but still, you've got to give credit to that kind of effort, time spent and utter dedication to the absolute apogee of a cause that the rest of the world thinks not worth its time. Demons everywhere. Kinda reminds me of Milne.

-- Carlos (riffraff1@cybertime.net), October 21, 1999.

"...I don't think you quite understand that I have spent 2.5+ years of my life fighting the Y2k Fruitcakes .......full time..."

FULL TIME????? Gee, Charlie... Do you mean there's NOTHING else to do in "DALLAS -- A WORLD-CLASS CITY"????? (I believe this is the way he used to end every post on PdJ's forum -- along with a listing of his degrees so everyone could be suitably impressed.)

Full time. Two-and-a-half-years (plus). Whew. And here I thought *I* needed to Get A Life...

The Whistler (BS, MS, Ph.D., LS/MFT, BFD)

-- I'm Here, I'm There (I'm Everywhere@so.beware), October 21, 1999.

To : Just a regular

Would just love to have a look in your larder.

-- (a new lurker(crybaby@tearsforfears.net), October 22, 1999.

Carlos, I understood Milne to have retired from the commodities business but cpr seems to be saying he actually quit working to go debunking, a sort of sabbatical. Anyway, I haven't heard anything about Milne collecting "deep-background" files on people, making four copies and keeping one copy in an offshore filing cabinet! Sounds a bit obsessive.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), October 22, 1999.

But so is pulling your teeth in case there are no dentist available. See new post on Paul Milne.

-- Bill (y2khippo@yahoo.com), October 22, 1999.

This thread has promise.

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), October 22, 1999.

I think I'll send cpr a copy of my fingerprints. Why not, the FBI already has 'em. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), October 22, 1999.

Silly me. I'll just send him one finger. I think we all know which one.

Tick... Tock... <:00=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), October 22, 1999.

The Whistler (BS, MS, Ph.D., LS/MFT, BFD) -- I'm Here, I'm There (I'm Everywhere@so.beware), October 21, 1999.

Showin' yer age, dude.

'Course, so am I for recognizing the add line.

"Loose Straps Mean...." indeed C

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 22, 1999.

Name's real. Address is real. Let's see now, what was it I want to say. Oh yeah:

FUCK YOU CPR. get it?

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), October 22, 1999.

Response to Charles P. Reuben says again he has collected "deep background files" on "Y2K fruitcakes" such as some of the people on this forum

There was an interesting piece in the New York Times last week about corporations that hire PR firms to defend their corporate products on web forums. Say someone at alt.Chevyrules starts giving out misinfo about Fords: the PR flack would 'assume' an identity and defend Ford. The article discussed several methods that firms used for this. There are several PR firms that specialize in this type of verse-forum-monkey wrenching. The article also noted how some firms seem to overreact, swatting web gnats with sledgehammers. Now, one must wonder: would the banking/intelligence/government communities send flacks to the web, with express instructions to disrupt Y2K alarmism? I would venture a "yes" to that one. They might even construct alternate fora, helping to hide the tree in the forest. Diane Squire has provided interesting links to the Reardon Group, and others, last winter, posted documents that indicated the government had plans to do just that. Go to the Rand Corporation site and search under "Athena." The bizarre animus you detect may simply be a shill's work ethic gone awry.

-- Spidey (in@jam.blink), October 22, 1999.

Hey ChukkkiePR=Fruitcake, How is my file coming?? I might inform you that when I posted over on GNIABFI site earlier this year, you thought it was Mr North. LOL. Can you say moron sandwhich. I know he want very bad to find out who I am. hehehehe

-- yk2 dave (xsdaa111@hotmail.com), October 22, 1999.

note this sentence from cpr:

"My view on them is far different than most people. I could do "deep background" on about 30 of them and track about 70 more. "

He said the same thing about 9 months ago when people were all in a tizzy that he was keeping file and "reporting" people that advocated the overthrow of the government, etc.

He said he "could"

He's never said that he "will" or that he "has"

I "COULD" fly down to Texas and punch him in the nose. But I probably won't, sort of a waste of time.

He's just a blowhard flak for SAP.

c'mon Charles, putup or shutup. what a whiny baby

oh, and he got the quote from GN wrong, the article was about American Express, not FEDEX. moron.

-- plonk! (realaddress@hotmail.com), October 22, 1999.

Let's be fair here.

While I do think a few of yall need some help and a couple others are WAY OUT THERE, I am not one of the posters on either of the above mentioned forums.

I posted once and that was it. I find it much more entertaining to argue with yall.

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), October 22, 1999.

If you are really that worried about CPR and his files, document that type of information. Start keeping your own files. Seems like as the internet continues to grow, cyber stalking is beginning to come under the same laws as "regular" stalking. Do your own research.

-- (a@.b.eat_me_cpr), October 22, 1999.

Should we all contact CPR and ask for copies of our files in case his 50MB hard drive turns out to be non-compliant?

-- a (a@a.a), October 22, 1999.

More from cpr who "could" and probably "would" do deep background and maybe more...

: These puling FREAKSHOW IDIOTS have about pissed me off with this crap. And they are so unbearably STUPID.

: Any FOOL could realize by now, the whole point of this DELAYED REACTION story is to allow the vendors to reposition themselves. And to give the consultants a chance to retract and bow out politely.

: Now they de-emphasize Y2K. In JUST A FEW months, it will suddenly fall off those servers, TB2000 will either go private or it will just lock everyone out, and suddenly all the FREAKSHOW IDIOTS will have to puke their DROOL at each other on USENET! ALONG ABOUT THEN, THE SMARTER ONES WILL REALISE WHA' HOPPEN.

: SO HELP ME, I HAVE BEEN DAMN TEMPTED TO SEARCH OUT THE ADDRESSES OF THE MAJOR SPREADERS OF THIS MANURE AND POST THEM ON USENET ABOUT THE FIRST OF APRIL NEXT YEAR! I won't, because it isn't a proper thing to do. BUT GOD, AM I EVER TEMPTED. Damn good job where Paul Davis showed them how to look up the server data on WHOIS.

: They should have to face their victims. Just as Keating did. What incredible morons they are. I hope one of them has sense enough to file a class action suit.

: I feel sorry for the victims. But the spreaders of this crap are still :

FREAKSHOW IDIOT MORONS

[And speaking of idiot morons, Paul Davis replied]

In Reply to: Here's how you RATTLE their Bird Cages posted by cpr on October 21, 1999 at 20:44:53:

That is pretty funny all the way around.

I do think I shook up a few of them with the 'This is how you look up a server location on WHOIS' post. Did I tell anyone what to do with the information? It is a freaking PUBLIC DOMAIN database!

Wonder how many phone calls they got?

I kind of hate to point this out, but most of the folks using the Internet don't know diddly about how the system works. No wonder they worry about 'it will all die and go away'. If they understood the incredible amount of redundancy and self-healing built into the system, they might not be so eager to believe the DOOM stories.

For some reason, I got the distinct impression that telling the TB2000 folks a little something about "HOW THE INTERNET REALLY WORKS AND WHERE THE DATA IS", is just verboten. Not done. HEY, these guys are the EXPERTS. IF THEY don't take their own advice, well, YOU SHOULD. ROFLMAO.

Scott was pretty pissed. Tough! The day I am afraid to tell someone how to look up public data, I will give up computers and take up tatting.

Wonder if that thread is marked for 'delete later and quietly' now?

You know, I never have looked up an IP on BFI. Doubt that I ever will. I do think I will copy the whole thing to a CD-ROM before the server is finally taken down.

-- yet (another@regular.regular), October 22, 1999.

CPR and Paul Davis are freaks who have spent too many years on IRC and Usenet.

They redefine the words "denial" and "psychosis".

Do a WHOIS and come and get me boneheads, and see if I'm afraid of a couple of halucinating coward assholes OD'ing on jolt drinks like you.

(For those not so net savvy folks, WHOIS is very limited in what it can do, and most ISP's and companies block it out. Go to anonymizer.com for a quick 101.)

-- (not@now.com), October 22, 1999.

"... I will give up computers and take up tatting. "

I see that Mr. Davis might be susceptible to the insidious needlepoint meme. I'd like to thank Flint for cluing me into this diabolical, yet oddly soothing thought contaigion.

-- flora (***@__._), October 22, 1999.

bill (y2khippo) please re-read the Milne teeth post. He has responded. As usual, it was a dumb-assed reporter that only half listens to what is being said and makes up the rest. I know from personal experience. I agreed to one interview in a past life as a town councilman. I read it and I was certain that he must have been interviewing someone else. Not even close. Never again.

-- (rcarver@inacom.com), October 22, 1999.

And, pray tell, just what 'we" have done to invoke his hatred?

Oh - are "hate-crimes" on the internet still being investigated by the FBI? Or are only preservationists capable of committing hate-crimes?

I guess, the 800-plus billion already budgetted to fight this problem by businesses and governments world-wide has completely solved the entire problem and so no individuals have to concern themselves with any form of insurance against uncertainity.

What has CPR done to convince himself that the concerns about y2k are not correct? What evidence does he have that there will be no problems? The only evidence I've seen (from the CIA, GAO, Senate and House Committes, and my local governments is that problems are expected and we should be prepare for AT LEAST three days of disruptions.

Now, some may choose to prepare for longer times - but who has he talked to show that this whole thing os a fraud and a waste of 800 billion dollars in the past 3 three years?

[Or does he believe that they have spent 1600 billion dollars over the past 5 years and tried to actually prevent the problem?]

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), October 22, 1999.

"One of the two chief proponents of the "TB2K Forum as Religion" theme is Charles P. Reuben (cpr) of Debunking Y2K and Gary North is a Big Fat Idiot forums. Doc Paulie is the other, Decker merely took up the cudgel, but all the usual suspects parrot this idiocy (Paul Davis, Maria, Buddy, Cherri, Deano, Pat, Patricia, FactFinder, Anita, etc., etc.)."

Good grief, you guys are about as good at seeing the "big picture" at debunkers as you are at assessing the impact of Y2k, that is to say, not too good.

I don't think you'll find very good evidence in any of my post to debunkers that I believe the TB2K is a "religion". The people that visit the debunkers forum do so for various reasons, the same as they do at TB2000. I visit BOTH of these forums for the same reason - to keep up with the various "spin" on Y2K, the "news" on Y2K, and the occassional funny threads (such as this one).

I haven't "studied" cpr's post or asked him about it, but it sure appears to me that he is talking about the elite Y2K "experts" nonsense, not the posters to any certain forum.

And by the way, I have seen plenty of "tracking" of the "little people" here on THIS forum, and can't even remember an "outing" at debunkers. Theres a current thread that even gives the guys full domain info - name, telephone number, etc! Diane even tracked down a post of mine at debunkers and in her mind, "outed" me, lol!

And on this forum, when you guys really want to go on the attack, you go deep undercover with a new name and address, now THIS is funny....

Please, give me a break with this nonsense.

Regards,

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), October 22, 1999.

Oh, and by the way, I can't remember the last time I went to the BIFFY forum (Gary North is a Big Fat Idiot Forum) , and doubt that I have ever even posted there. If you guys are gonna track me, ya need a better detective.

But since ya reminded me, I think I WILL go take a look see, lol.

Regards,

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), October 22, 1999.

Forget them Factfinder. There FUCKING heads are so far up there FUCKING assholes, there damn ears will be clogged with SHIT for decades!

They can't get the FUCKING facts straight even ONE GODDAMN TIME!

You pathetic loser morons are the little FUCKING pimples on the ass of humanity. I don't want to be around when you burst.

-- Super Polly (Fu_Q_y2kfreaks@hotmail.com), October 22, 1999.

oh and PS to the fucking moderators....go FUCKING right ahead and FUCKING delete me you lunatics.

-- Super Polly (Fu_Q_y2kfreaks@hotmail.com), October 22, 1999.

Time for your thorazine Stupor Polly.

(Could someone give Stupor a couple of Pampers, please? One for each end. Sad, that.)

-- (dideesforStupor@wow.com), October 22, 1999.

Super Potty,

Your quest for martyrdom is always ugly. Doubt you'll get much milage with your Buddy(s) with this one. BTW, if you really "don't want to be around" ask your pharmacist. It's easy, painless and in your case would be a gift to all.

-- Carlos (riffraff1@cybertime.net), October 22, 1999.

Mods, please leave the above posts by SP. Very illustrative, especially to newbies.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), October 22, 1999.

Gee, are we still talking about this?

OK, here's my current IP address:

204.143.69.19

Part of VERIO. Part of GES. Part of JVNC.

Oh, you do know about JVNC, don't you? The first (go ahead, check your history books) to do fiber on the internet. Or was that the first do do DS3...???

Hey cpr, my ISP is in the same office building that I am. We have a T-1 line going up to the 3rd floor. We're on Route 1, In Princeton, NJ. Come on over, I'll buy lunch, but, only if I can bring my CSR from VERIO along. We'll be hanging in front of the building, smoking...

And here's my fingerprint:

..!..

Tick... Tock... <:00=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), October 23, 1999.

Oh man, and yet another PS:

If you can't find JVNC, try a search with "SUPERCOMPUTER" and "PRINCETON"

We be there. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), October 23, 1999.

Sysman, Thanks for the info - I put a sniffer on your IP and did a backfeed on your TCP the next message from that address, and pulled your hard disk directory ...very interesting...but what's up with that "TB2000 Nutcases" folder?

Regards,

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), October 23, 1999.

Howdy FactFinder,

What folder would that be? The one that Hoff was asking about, the GAO? That's the only "folder" in my Y2K bookmarks, that I've talked about in a while. (Yea, I know, I'm just tryin' to get 'em riled...)

Anyway FF, I noticed that you were interested in early warnings. Do you know about Cringely? I posted some of his stuff in an earlier thread, where we were a few days ago. Gary North ignored his warnings!

Programmer's Y2K alert finally gets heard

I was off by a few years, he says that he started talking about Y2K in 1991. I would have sworn on a stack of Bibles, that it was earlier, but I must be gettin' old... Or thinking of someone else...

Tick... Tock... <:00=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), October 23, 1999.

1) Why would ANY self respecting sysop delete Super poly's posts?? It's SO MUCH easier to let him make my case for me.

2) SYSMAN, drop me an e-?? ref VERIO.

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 23, 1999.

OK C, on the way. Just remind me to check my mail once in a while... ... ... <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), October 23, 1999.

Wrong. I have most of the standard lines of ALL of them. Filed by name. 100 plus. From the Big names to the odd balls. From the Peasants to the Ph.Ds.

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[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Debunking Y2k ] [ FAQ ]

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Posted by cpr on October 12, 1999 at 18:56:01:

In Reply to: Once we get into the first weeks of Jan posted by The Y2Idiot on October 12, 1999 at 14:41:16:

And I have every intention of making sure that it will be on a web site as a demonstration of something that must NEVER, EVER happen again.

And I sincerely hope one or some of them try to SUE me because in "disclosure" I will get at their business and private email records and prove that all our speculations about the MONEY were correct.

And trust me.........IT WILL BE MY PLEASURE.

cpr

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

: I will definately say goodbye to the doomer, the FUDs, and unfortunately the Debunking Y2K movement in the weeks following the crash. We should during the first two weeks enjoy the doom movement switchin gears to the "Once everything dries up" mode and explaining how they had decided months before that Y2K wouldn't be too bad on 1/1/00.

: The only thing that debunkers never did correctly was catalog and record every single prediction and idiotic statement made by the doomers. As by now we could post over in the TB2000 the stupid statements they made. We gave the doomers it seems to much credit to be honest. The doom history has been for the most part deleted so newbies won't see the idiotic statements made by the so called experts as Yourdon, Hyatt, ect all moderate their views to the end being in years due to Y2K failures.

: Otherwise enjoy the next three months because in January we got alot of celebratin to do when CPR gets to post in font 72 or whatever is the largest you can find, HAHAHA!

Link

http://stand77.com/wwwboard/messages/1373.html

-- qwerty (asdfgh@zxcvbn.wow), October 23, 1999.

Save the work, use the links AND "OUT THEM" ALL as BS ARTISTS

Forum: Gary North is a Big Fat Idiot Forum Re: New and (Hopefully) Improved (Stephen M. Poole, CET) Re: To Stephen and Dan: Great Work! Would you collaborate? (Robin Messing) Re: Actually ... (Stephen M. Poole, CET) Date: 1999, Mar 21 From: CPR

I have concluded that some of the Y2k "alarmists" even in the Professional circles do not want to (or can't) face the reality of the rate of remediation. IT IS TIME TO "OUT THEM" ALL.

Use this joint as a library and just link in as "footnotes" where needed to back up what you are saying.

You are welcome to anything that I have posted where marked as either opinion or the facts. There is proably the most complete set of ANTI- Y2k Extremist Documents here than any place else on the WWW and shortly there will be a ton more as I do to some of the other memes what Lord Jim just earned.

I have concluded that the time to 'pussy foot' or ignore the following IDIOTs is long over:

Previews:

Roleigh Gump "Whoops,I made a booboo again" Martin

Craig "Churches.net" Goldilockes

Dr. DooDoo

Dr. Markie

Paula Well Dressed Bag Lady

Little Ricky

And ...just maybe....one Professor of MIS who seems to think he can use his Y2k efforts in a Professional organization to promote himself and his personal vendettas at will on every list serve in the world.

Link

http://206.28.81.29/HyperNews/get/gn/991/1/1/1.html

-- qwerty (asdfgh@zxcvbn.wow), October 23, 1999.

-- remaining anon (remainedanonnn@anonnnn.xcom), September 22, 2000.

Don't know about DC.....TEXAS has CPR though and he's in the running

-- cpr-u-idiot (vission441@dot.com), September 22, 2000.

ANOTHER ANONYMOUS **LIAR**.

NICELY LEAVES OUT ONE "DETAIL" FROM THE CUT AND PASTES. THE I.P. ADDRESSES OF ALL POSTERS WERE ON THE DE-BUNKERS BOARD AND THEIR ***E- MAIL** ADDRESSES WERE ***REAL***

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), September 22, 2000.

Creep: The links are provided, let people look them up for themselves. It's not the issue of people posting anon, it's the fact that you claim to hunt people's personal information down.

-- remaining anonymous (reamininganonnn@anonnnn.xcom), September 22, 2000.

umm, didnt 'someone' else ALSO hunt others down :-0 ?

things that make ya go hmmmm.

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), September 22, 2000.

I found the beer, 'sumer, but where do you keep the chips?

-- helen (b@r.h), September 22, 2000.

Hi helen.

Beer is under picnic table, later on after we have had a few., wanna beer restle? :-)

tee hee

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), September 22, 2000.

Creep: The links are provided, let people look them up for themselves. It's not the issue of people posting anon, it's the fact that you claim to hunt people's personal information down. -- remaining anonymous (reamininganonnn@anonnnn.xcom), September 22, 2000. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

CRETIN.........I HARDLY BOTHERED WITH LITTLE PLAYERS ONLINE.

ONLY THE INSTIGATORS OF THE Y2K FUD MOVEMENT:

NORTH

LORD DUMBO

HYATT GOLDI-LOCKS COIN PUSHER: CRAIG SMITH HITCH HIKER ON THE FUD BUS: DON McELVANEY MIKEY ADAMS THE y2KLOSER-WIRE CATON OF THE BEANS

YOUR=TOAST=EY

MISSLER

DREW AND CBN

MILITIA WANNABEES WHO THOUGHT NOTHING OF TALKING ABOUT "SHOOTING HUNGRY POLLIES WHO CAME TO THEIR DOOR !!!!

THE SHIT HEELS WHO DEFENDED AN ATTEMPT TO PEDDLE A **BABY** ON THE NET TO "A PREPARED FAMILY".

IDIOTS WHO TALKED OF HIDING GASOLINE IN THEIR GARAGES BROUGHT IN IN THE NIGHT SO THEY COULDN'T BE SEEN .......KNOW WHAT A MOLOTOV COCKTAIL IS??.........MULTIPLY IT BY 55 GALLON DRUMS IN A SUB- DIVISION OF FAMILIES.

PUSHERS OF "14 DAYS TO PREP" AND VENDORS OF 2 X NORMAL PRICE DRIED MILITARY FOOD (SURPLUS).

AND ASSORTED BULL SHIT ARTISTS.

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), September 22, 2000.

The louder you yell the more I understand CPR, but I didn't quiet get it yet, could you yell louder?

-- (smarty@wannabe.one), September 22, 2000.

Gawd!! Now I know why the royal garage blew up the other month. And here I thought it was a simple terrorist attack. Damn!!

Now, let's see, where else did I hide all that gasoline....

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), September 22, 2000.

'sumer, after the chips settle a bit, sure, let's beer wrestle. But not anywhere near KOS's garage.

-- helen (b@r.i), September 23, 2000.

Visit the "CPR YOUR A BIG FAT IDIOT" page.

-- cpr-u-idiot (vission441@dot.com), September 23, 2000.