Help ! Found Dream House! Found Neighbors from Hell?

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My wife an I have made an offer on our dream farm. It has every thing we always wanted, we thought. Until I started looking on the net about this community. I found that there appears to be a group of masked men targeting new comers to there community of 140 people. They have been steeling there things and burning there houses down and the local grocer had been robbed and shot all in the last 9 months. The articles said that the community was afraid of these people and were afraid to come forward to testify. The local sheriff appears to be unable or unwilling to do anything about it. Also, the people we are buying the house from have moved there form out of the area and are selling it after a year for a loss. Is there something there they are not telling us?

We are thing of backing out of the contract we will loss $2,000 and our dream farm. We have only a few more days until were are fully committed. What would you do? We would appreciate your advice.

-- Newbie in MO (Netorcs@Mo-net.com), September 17, 2000

Answers

Back out of the deal immediately. You will lose your earnest money. However, if you can prove the real estate agent or agency knew of the problem and didn't inform you, you likely have a cause to sue to get your earnest money back. Surely they had to know what was going on. If you asked what the area was like, including crime, and they said there weren't any significant problems, go after them.

Even if you toughed it out, it doesn't sound like a community you would be happy in. There are other fish (farms) in the sea.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), September 17, 2000.


First off let me say that you may not be required to honor the contract you seem to have entered into. Under the law in many states there is a disclosure law that requires all detrimental information about a property be given to potential buyers. If you did not receive this negative information from the sellers via themselves or a realtor, you may simply not be required to comply with a sales agreement and since disclosure was not made, you would receive all deposits back. I think that this would be a good time to consult an attorney.

You may also wish to consult with state authorities or maybe even federal authorities about hates crimes and ask what is being done or what is to be done in the future. If enough pressure is applied in the right places things can change.

I'm also reminded of similar circumstances, and I think it was in Missouri, where a town bully pretty much did as he please. Authorities could not or would not seem to do anything. Someone finally shot and killed the person and the town seemed relieved. They also stuck together and the shooter was never found out. Doubt a jury of their peers would convict them anyway.

I do wish you the best of luck...

-- Notforprint (Not@thekeyboard.com), September 17, 2000.


AAcckk! No way on earth would I get into a deal like that! It may be your dream farm...but there are others bearings that you must keep in mind--such as community. No man is an island; I have learned (from coming up here) that I would never place forsaking precious relationships over some ideal location, place, etc. It sounds to me that if you buy this place...after the initial excitement of the newness has worn thin and normalcy seeks to find its route, you might be pretty miserable, yes? Think of the long run...If you have the chutzpah and energy (and perhaps munitions) to stand against this roving band of maurauders, go for it. But if you're just kind and simple folks, like us, that want a little bit of land to grow some food, aninmals, and live in symbiosis with the land....please consider the long run in regards to community, etc. ALSO....I'm not a real estate agent, but I'm sure there must be some way to get out of the contract. I'd scream it from the rooftops! I'd call the local news, etc. ! Shed a little LIGHT on this issue!!!Want to borrow my husband? Hes real good and effective about standing up to stuff like that!!!(smile)

-- Beth Weber (talmidim88@hotmail.com), September 17, 2000.

No, I wouldn't do it. I have the neighbors from heck over here. They steal everything that is not nailed down. They like to wait until we get something new, then steal it a few days later. They wait until we go out. For crying out loud they even stole every single cucumber off my vines last year...they also stole our new weed wacker at the same time, but you know, I only went to the store for 1 hour and I was planning on those cuckes for dinner!! Grrrr!!! Forget about eggs...*sigh* Its a nightmare. We never know when we go away if there is going to be anything left when we get back. I keep waiting to round the corner to find the house burned to the ground. They also like to listen at our windows late at night....creepy eh? Right now we are working our buns off to get this place fixed up and for sale come spring. We've only been here a year. If I was you, I'd try and get the ernest money back...try telling them you'll put a lein on the place and they'll never be able to sell. I wish you the best of luck!! There are plenty of farms out there, you don't need to go thru what we are. If anyone has seen the movie "Mothers Day" (horror) this is what my neighbors are like.*THUD*

Kimberly

-- Kimberly (kimberlyscollection@usa.net), September 17, 2000.


Drop the offer. Better to lose the money than all your dreams and hopes. We did something similar--we bought property in the countryside without checking out the area (we did not do the things we knew to do in cities, like talk to police, talk to area residents). After we bought it, we found out that everyone on the county road had been robbed at least once--sometimes 2 or 3 times). We ended up selling the place, and never even did anything on it. The current owner has it up for sale too.

The sad truth is that the countryside has good and bad areas too. Some county roads here are peaceful and quiet. Others have lots of robberies, drug labs, you name it. So you have to be careful these days when you are new to an area and buy property.

The experience was so shattering to us that it took us a long time to get over it. Maybe I'll write an article on this problem--lots of newbies just do not understand that you do not necessarity leave crime behind when you go to the country.

-- John Grauer (j-grauer@centurytel.net), September 17, 2000.



As I have said before, the human landscape is the most important part of a homestead. Even if you lose the money, that will be cheap compared with living with fear, insecurity and heartbreak. This "dream farm" is an illusion.

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), September 17, 2000.

Kimberly, could you get a livestock guardian dog -- or two? Fence your yard, so the dogs wouldn't be running loose and give your neighbors an excuse to complain -- and so if they came in the yard and got bit, you would be able to verify that the dogs were on your property and therefore, so must your neighbors have been!

Newbie, I agree with everyone else -- it isn't worth living in a place like that, even if you do lose your money, but you should make every effort to recover it. There are plenty of nice places to live in this country.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 17, 2000.


Call the bank and be as nasty as you can be .Tell them you will not give them any more info and Hubby is quiting his job next week .Think of anything you can so they don't give you the money .I know it's not far to them but it's not to you either .Are there any laws in your state that would need them to diclose these things to you ?

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 17, 2000.

Newbie, I have to add my 2cents worth, and I totally agree with the previous posts. It just isn't worth it. Kimberly, I would get a BIG dog, and post signs on the fence if you have it, facing the neighbors, and let them know you have a VICIOUS dog,(even if it isn't) and that it BITES. Might make them think twice about coming over and raiding your stuff. Jan

-- Jan in Colorado (Janice12@aol.com), September 17, 2000.

I think this is the only good situation in which to use leghold traps!! Put a few grizzly catchers around your property for the first week or two, keep the kids and dogs in, and splash a little animal repellent around the traps to warn off the local 4 legged beasts, and watch the fun!!! Secretly mark and load up a few tempting veggies with a healthy dose of Visine (old bartenders trick) and if they're stolen the theives will have nearly instantaneous and uncontrollable bowel problems for the night. Remember, shot gun shells loaded with rock salt are legal and leave a lingering reminder to stay the H**l away from your property. Practise a few guerilla tactics ask your local Nam vet for ideas) and the bullies will be crying like a politician at a fundraiser that no one came to. (Note: some of these tactics may be illegal. Just assume that they are here for entertainment purposes only. After all, you're a grown-up and can make these distinctions, no?)

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), September 17, 2000.


What a shame. I feel genuinely sorry for both of you.You said that you found this information out on the net...what was the source? Perhaps a local newspaper? then RUN from the deal and count your blessings that you found out in time so that your only loss (money can be replaced) was the $2000....If it was a private website or chat or some other source, I would recommend that you make two phone calls before you back out of the deal..first call to an area pastor or priest who has been there more than 10 years.These folks hear everything and can confirm or denty the facts...second, regardless of what the pastor says, call that local sheriff and see what he has to say.Take all with a few grains of salt and then make your decision.I have found over many many years of people watching that there are many small minds who love to perpetuate rumors or blow things up out of proportion..e.g. one neighbor gets broken into and suddenly the local gossip mill hears dogs barking and it's just GOTTA be thieves and murderers all around, OR, there IS a gang of thieves and the sheriff cannot do anything about it because the victims refuse to cooperate!Point is, unless you read the item in the local paper, check it out for yourself before you make a big decision...there are "dream homes" everywhere..sometimes we need to thank God for our unanswered prayers and move along..God bless..

-- Lesley (martchas@gateway.net), September 17, 2000.

In my experience, a dog will be poisoned or shot. How about pretending to leave, but hiding with a video camera to film them stealing from you? Get an old, broken weedwacker, paint it to look brand new, then place it where you can get a good video of them lifting it. The leg trap sounded interesting if the cops won't help you even with the video as proof. Unbelievable stuff going on there.

-- Epona (staceyb@myway.com), September 17, 2000.

You should be able to get your earnest money back based on non- disclosure. Check with your state real estate board. We were once on the other end of this and lost half the earnest money when a buyer backed out. Reason, we hadn't told the husband that his wife's ex lived next door. She knew it, but they got half back, anyway. Bottom line is that neither party will want to go to litigation over it, and it's easier to just settle. You will be much better off losing $1,000 and being out of the deal. And you should be able to ask about the crime wave and the sheriff or county prosecutor should be required by law to disclose whether or not it is real. No names probably, but the facts of shootings, break-ins and arson fires should be public knowledge. Also ask whatever insurance agency you would be using. They know how to get this information. Goodness knows, they would charge you more on your premiums if you live in a high-crime area. Bottom line, money is money, but there are gorgeous little farms all over this country. Life is too short and terroristic tactics can be horrifying. But that's another story....

-- melina bush (goatgal1@juno.com), September 17, 2000.

My $2. worth! Dreams can also be NIGHTMARES! I'd squeal like a pig under a gate for my money back. Appears to me that somebody has tactfully kept some information from you. Matt. 24:44

-- hoot (hoot@pcinetwork.com), September 17, 2000.

trust me 100% on this one!!! DO NOT MOVE THERE you may lose 2,000 but considering i have spent over 5,000 on my neighbor from hell you willstill come out a winner. there is nothing worst then not getting along w. you neighbor, it will make the most wonderful place hell.

-- renee oneill (oneillsr@home.com), September 17, 2000.


If you feel that you need to get out of your agreement I would suggest that you first just ask for your money back, and explain why. Chances are that they probably know about the situation and they just might give the money back without a fight.

It depends a little, on who is holding the money (you did not say). If there is a real estate broker involved here, he may be persuaded to get on your side when it becomes known that you found out about the neighborhood. There is a state agency that controls the issuance of real estate licenses, that could be very helpful in getting your money back.

Another option is to search out a competent real estate attorney and have him read your purchase agreement. Chances are that it has some sort of flaw in it that will allow you to escape. Don't get a local attorney move out to the next county at least. There will be a good chance that local attorneys will be related, or have dealings with the masked bad guys. Same for the sheriff. It is a pretty good bet that almost everyone knows who they are.

I am a real estate broker in Ohio, so if I can be of help please let me know.

-- Ed Copp (edcopp@yahoo.com), September 17, 2000.


Absolutely do not move there. I would check out the sources you mentioned on the internet as it might be from someone with a bone to pick with TPTB in that town/county. You have gotten excellent advise from everyone here. The one thing I didn't see mentioned is that some states have a real estate arbitration board to settle problems with getting earnest money back and you might check that out. Like others, I think you have very valid reasons for getting your money back, but definitely get better sources than "it was on the internet". Check the state crime reports - those should be public record.

-- beckie (sunshine_horses@yahoo.com), September 17, 2000.

"Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore". There was a time in my life, when I would have advised you to stand your ground. My Grandfathers were Italian and Irish immigrants, who had to fight- literally- for every bit of honor and respect in this 'great' country of ours. Well, they won their honor, and their respect-with their fists- they bought homes, got good jobs, raised families, and became unlikly friends with their neighbors. Unfortunatly today, your neighbor might have a bazooka. The trouble with giving up, is that the bad guys win. The trouble with staying, is that the bad guys, will ultimatly, win. Thanks to our last 16 or so years of peace and harmony, 'guns are bad', 'let's all get along' Presidents, you will get arrested for harming the guy trespassing on your property. I personally, keep a bow and arrow-no site. The practice target, just happens to be at the crest of the driveway-oops.

-- Kathy (catfish@bestweb.net), September 17, 2000.

We moved from an area of hign crime, with breaking and entering, drugs, murders, meth labs, to..... A place with all the above and more, 4 murders in less than a year. We did not know about these problems until we were here. I hired some locals and let it be known that we are well armed, I have a concealed carry permit. In my shop there is a 12 gauge, loaded, in the livingroom another, double barrel. I am sure the word got around. Our place is fenced, with a gate/gates. Still if we want to take a vacation we have to have a house sitter, lock things up and hope for the best. We have not had anything stolen, nor have we been bothered by anyone, I pay tribute to the locals now and then with a case of beer and try to get along. On the other hand my nearest neighbor who moved in this spring has had several people attempt to steal lumber and other things he is setting up his own security system, starting with a .357 magnum. Still I might not have bought this place if I had any idea it would be a potential war zone and I would have to spread guns all over the place to feel secure.

-- Hendo (OR) (redgate@echoweb.net), September 18, 2000.

Here's what I would do. Ask for an extension on the purchase agreement,in writing, for a week stating personal reasons. If you have a real estate agent he/she should help you. Investigate this for yourself to be sure it's not blown out of proportion by people who aren't used to any crime in the fairly recent past. Even here in northern MN which is about as good as it gets, it's scary to read the local paper's weekly crime report. I am a real estate broker although a little out of touch because my license has been on ice for a few years but in my opinion, this situation would not be required to be disclosed. Might even be illegal for an agent to state an opinion regarding the neighborhood. If after you investigate, you still want to get out of it, there has to be a written cancellation which states how the earnest money will be distributed. You can try to get the money back and you may get it, or at least part of it. Let me know if I can answer any questions although laws vary in different states. Good luck! And, yes, get a good attorney to look for a loop hole! Alma

-- alma miller (almamiller@webtv.net), September 18, 2000.

I think I would opt out of the deal. The pefect home and land are nothing if the people around you dont want you there.

As for the $2000 loss. I would think there are lots of ways out of that. Was an inspection done? There is usually things wrong. Ask that they all be fixed prior to closing, make it not cost effective to sell. As several people have noted disclosure is required of problems. I am not sure I agree that bad neighbors need to be disclosed since that is not part of the property. Unless you specificly ask about neighbors, crime, community problems then that may be a closed avanue.

-- Gary (gws@redbird.net), September 18, 2000.


Get out. There are a lot of horror stories, so I will tell you the opposite. We bought our farm in SE WI 4 years ago. The only bad neighbors we have are the ones we haven't talked to yet. In other words, if we take the time to talk to someone, they seem to be great people. Sure, there are rumors and stories here, too, but we leave our place unlocked, no one seems to bother my tools and things. My point is that you don't have to 'settle' for a place, there are other places that are good. Get one that you feel comfortable in. You shouldn't have to carry weapons to walk your fields. (unless you live up nort' wit da bears and cougars, eh?)

-- Dan (dan@dotnet.com), September 19, 2000.

Dan, I'll take the bears and cougars any day over the two-legged wolves, as Grandad used to call them!!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 19, 2000.

Another (less cranky) two cents worth: FInd out who has a vested interest in keeping new owners away - is a contingent of locals trying to purchase a block of land at underpriced rates (due to bad press?), or perhaps someone is simply out for fun and games.

When Habitat for Humanity was fixing up a building to move several of our group into, a couple of guys came over to congatulate uon the work and , oh, by the way, did you hear about this crack killing and that crime wave, etc. Turns out, they're local "slum lords" trying to scare HFH out of the house so that they could buy it for their own purposes, especially since they would have a newly renovated building, at that. Unfortunately, since one of the crew has a newborn and another is a little nervous about the area (she ain't from around here) it worked, even though the supervisor assured them that they had checked with the sheriff when THEY heard the roumours and found them to be false and overblown. Follow the money.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), September 19, 2000.


Newbie, we are looking at land in MO. What town is this? thanks, carol

-- carol (fchambers@mail.janics.com), September 20, 2000.

Newbie, Talk to your mortgage broker. If he refuses to finance THIS particular house, because of some perceived problem, you will get your money back.

We bought our place last year, and our broker told us anytime we wanted out, he would stop the financing. We pulled the plug on the first "dream farm" we were trying to get, because it was overpriced (low appraisal) and in a bad neighborhood. Our broker was going to pull the plug if we didn't.

The same day THAT house fell through, we found a place with more property, in much better shape $20,000 below appraised value, and still cheaper than the previous place. AND it has the best neighbors anyone could possibly ask for.

I can truly say that good neighbors are a priceless treasure. There are other dream farms right around the corner.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), September 21, 2000.


we bought an abandoned place out in the oregon woods. only 2 neighbors ( nat'l forest on the other side) and they came right over to check us out and make sure we weren't bad 'uns like the last group of thieving white trash from hell. there are 5 of us and we look like hippies and this is a redneck area. it was funny to overhear some of the stories circulating about us, that we were a cult, a commune, dope-growers, on the lam, a multiple orgy sex marriage...none of which was true. we just stopped at the local store and kept being friendly and spending money and striking up conversations and fixing our new place up. honest work gains respect. honest communication smooths misconceptions. even though our men have long hair they can fix a truck and use a chainsaw with the best of em. THE SHORT OF IT IS, THE STORIES ABOUT US WEREN'T TRUE. VERIFY WHAT IS BEING SAID ABOUT YOur potential NEIGHBORS from many sources. before you make decisions about any place. but i agree, there is more than one dream out there. sure i have guns and dogs, most folks out here do, but i don't feel scared or alienated from my neighbors just cuz they wear hickory shirts and baseball caps and we wear hemp tie-dye.

-- Juno redleaf (gofish@presys.com), September 22, 2000.

Newbie, I have warned others on this forum to never move into an area where there are only three or four different last names in the phone book. I'll bet that you have found one of these areas. Next time, do a geneology check. Find an area where the family tree has some branches.

-- john and pat james (jjames@n-jcenter.com), September 23, 2000.

I would highly consider what everyone has already told you to do-RUN! Losing 2000 dollars is a small price to pay to get out of that nightmare. Another piece of advice-if you take the advice and try to trap someone using an animal trap-you better have a lot more than 2000 dollars in the bank, because the person caught in the trap will have FULL reason to sue you for everything. Take care.

-- Brian (bwardner1@yahoo.com), April 17, 2002.

gotta wonder... Maybe if people would quit running, these things wouldn't be happening so much.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), April 17, 2002.

Newbie - Make sure that the info you got was correct. We have heard some terrible things about our area - skinheads, neo-nazis, & so on - but I haven't met one yet. And as outspoken as I am, I'm sure they would have found me if there were any.

On the other hand, we had relatives leave their dream place in Montana because of problems with the "natives".

-- Bonnie (stichart@plix.com), April 17, 2002.


Drat - forgot to check the original post date.

-- Bonnie (stichart@plix.com), April 17, 2002.

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