Y2 Scenario unfolding in UK.

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Details given on the BBC News Online service .

Could someone please provide a link or tell me how to do it.

At 7pm this evening after a meeting with the Premier,Irish Hauliers announced they would begin to protest on Friday.Public are in support of hauliers.Some petrol stations in Dublin are already dry.

-- Chris (chris@griffenmill.com), September 13, 2000


Drat, I missed that Special K.

-- Chris (enquiries@griffenmill.com), September 13, 2000.

PANIC buyers who had helped to drain thousands of filling stations across the country turned their attention to supermarkets yesterday and began to fill their baskets with perishable goods. Spar, the grocery chain which has 2,700 stores in Britain, said there had been a 300 per cent increase in the sales of bread, milk and canned goods in South Wales, one of the areas worst hit by fuel blockades. A spokesman said they were working hard to restock the stores, and Tesco, which reported that it was running low on bread in four stores, said that it would also be re-filling its shelves. London commuter stations were packed, and in badly hit areas, including South Wales, Yorkshire and north-east England roads were quieter than usual, as drivers conserved fuel for essential journeys, and some businesses were forced to turn away custom. Scott Owen, an undertaker in Llandudno, North Wales, said: "We can't do long distance funerals because of the risk of not having enough fuel to get back." Motorists across Britain ignored pleas not to indulge in the panic-buying of fuel, queuing in their hundreds by any petrol station still open. Richard Freeman, an AA policy spokesman, said he felt that that some consumers were deliberately flouting the Government's pleas not to fill their tanks. "A lot of drivers are enjoying the situation of giving the Government a bloody nose. They felt they haven't been able to do anything individually but they've been feeling very angry about it. The Government has woefully underestimated the level of feeling drivers have." But many of those at the pumps said that they were filling up because they were dependent on their cars for their livelihoods. Mark Roberts, 35, a doctor from Bramhall, set out at 7.15am yesterday to join a quarter of a mile long queue outside Sainsbury's petrol station at Cheadle Royal, Stockport, Manchester. He said he needed to travel between four hospitals each day. "How do I get to clinics and see patients if I can't get any fuel? It's vital that I can get to where I'm needed." Chris Gac, 21, a joiner from Bolton, Lancashire, said: "I do 70 miles a day. By the time it gets to the end of the week I could be out of a job. If this goes on, and I can't do my job, I'll go broke." Queues and frustration brought out the worst in some drivers, with fights reported on service station forecourts. Christopher Priestley, an employee at a Shell garage in Leeds said he saw violence just before fuel ran out. He said: "It has become a tragic situation - fighting over petrol. Two men pulled up at a super unleaded pump. One was punched as they fought to get there first." Customers were buying as much fuel as they could, despite fire safety officers' warnings against stockpiling. Mark Lewis, the skipper of the Dart fuel barge in Dartmouth harbour, Devon, said customers had "been coming on board with 10-litre and 25-litre containers. One chap was so desperate to get home to Birmingham he bought 106 litres". One driver was turned away from a garage at Colesbourne, near Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, after asking to fill a 40-gallon water butt. Another motorist from Skipton, North Yorkshire, was taken to hospital with burns to his back after fuel he had stockpiled at home went up in flames, setting fire to his kitchen. Other motorists were taking the lesser risk of filling the tanks of cars which should run on unleaded fuel with leaded, risking hundreds of pounds of damage to their catalytic converters. The shortages caused difficulties to businesses and organisations across the country. William Dolman, the coroner at Hornsey, north London, cancelled all inquests until further notice. He said petrol shortages meant that officers and witnesses found it difficult to get to court. He added: "It is possible that within a few days my pathologists will not be able to attend to carry out post mortem examinations." It meant that bereaved relatives might not be able to make funeral arrangements. The Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals said that its work could be affected by the fuel crisis. Sun Valley, Britain's biggest poultry processing plant, said that eight million chickens and a million turkeys faced starving to death. Fuel for the boilers which produce the steam needed to mix up the poultry food for the plant in Hereford is expected to run out this evening. The only words of optimism came from cross-Channel operators, who recommended motorists to take their cars on a ferry to fill them up in the country which set the crisis in motion - France.

-- kermie (kermitrbt@aol.com), September 13, 2000.

I spoke with a client this morning in Leicester who stated the entire town is bone dry. He is predicting for it to remain that way for the near future.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), September 13, 2000.

I hope that not too many preppers fell
for that Jan. 1 BS and gave away all
their food. :-'

-- spider (spider0@usa.net), September 13, 2000.

Hi Spider! LTNS =)

-- cin (cin@=0.)), September 13, 2000.

Hi cin. 8,;

-- spider (spider0@usa.net), September 13, 2000.

I kept my preps close by, like I always do. I even still have some gas saved. I wonder how many of those refineriers are still not up to full production or closed. Not much has changed since this time last year when there was no shortage, expect that maybe the refiners haven't the capacity to do more... Y2k is back.


-- Justthinkin com (justhink@y2kagain.com), September 14, 2000.

"Y2K Scenario unfolding in UK"

Where's Mutha Nachu when you need him?


-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), September 14, 2000.

Clueless distance analysis as usual.

There IS a fuel crisis here in the UK. It is NOT linked in any way shape or form to Y2K, nor is it really anything more than a series of unhappy coincidences.

Coincidence #1 - Fuel prices in this country are the highest in Europe. Mainly this is down to a "fuel tax escalator" system which was invented and established years ago under a Tory (read republican right) administration, and served a dual purpose of raising needed tax revenue, as well as being a prohibitory factor in car usage, therefore being seen as a "green tax" and also a way to inhibit road congestion. It worked, and it still works.

Coincidence #2 - The fuel companies (BP, Shell, Esso, Texaco, Elf etc) are in no real hurry to break the "blockade" (minor public protest in truth) being mounted by a small number of people. They would love to see a drop in fuel tax, as it would allow them a) to sell more fuel and b) to sneak in a price rise for themselves, masked by a drop in tax. For this reason, they have practically encouraged their tanker drivers NOT to drive. None of the protests have been violent or intimidatory (with occasional very minor exceptions), but the companies claim they will not force the drivers to take the trucks out unless the drivers feel safe to do so.

Coincidence #3 - The tanker drivers, being members of the public and consumers too, would love to pay less for fuel, and so tacitly endorse the protest. They are in NO hurry to deliver the needed supplies.

Coincidence #4 - Blair's administration have been slipping (as do all administrations after their honeymoon period wears off) into the kind of twilight zone where public opinion wavers between lukewarm support, and media-driven hostility. Note that the press in the UK is NOT apolitical, and the newspaper owners and publishers blow and flap from left to right along with self-interest, and the winds of political maneouvering. The delivery of fuel, and the combination of the first 3 coincidences give a small number of interest groups (hauliers, farmers, high-fuel users) a chance to exert a MASSIVELY disproportionate degree of influence. They are taking this chance.

Coincidence #5 - The general public are as naieve here as anywhere, and the majority - if asked - will say that fuel tax is too high, and its the governments fault. The truth is that fuel tax under the current government is lower than it was under the last Tory administration (73% compared with 78%) and that the present government scrapped the aforementioned "escalator" system (of automatic pre-scheduled rises in the tax level, over and above inflation), in favour of a system of regular circumstancial review.

These same people - if asked - will say that OTHER PEOPLE use their cars too much, the roads are overcrowded, the air is polluted, and the government should do something about it. But since when did the public NOT want to have their cake, and eat it, both today and tomorrow.

The upshot is that the country was without petrol for several days. Just yesterday, this began to bite in relation to essential services, leading to peoples lives being endangered. The blockades (protests) have largely been scrapped now, and the latest news is that tankers are running normally. The government (having faced down a catch-22 situation) has promised to debate the issue, and re-examine the taxation of fuel.

The panic buying which was witnessed over the last few days (of both fuel and food) illustrated that we also have a percentage of people in our nation who run around and take selfish destructive action first, and engage their brains second. This, of course, had the effect of making the whole situation MUCH worse.

Now, kindly tell me how any of this has anything to do with Y2K (other than the fact that its the year 2000) ?



-- w0lv3r1n3 (w0lv3r1n3@yahoo.com), September 14, 2000.

Now, kindly tell me how any of this has anything to do with Y2K

I don't think that infomation would change
your closely held paradigm.

-- spider (spider0@usa.net), September 14, 2000.

"I don't think that infomation would change your closely held paradigm."

So what you're saying then is . . .

"actually, I cant, but I'm not going to let the facts get in the way of my argument. I blame the gubbmint . . prep prep !!"

I geddit. Thanks



-- w0lv3r1n3 (w0lv3r1n3@yahoo.com), September 14, 2000.

"The panic buying which was witnessed over the last few days (of both fuel and food) illustrated that we also have a percentage of people in our nation who run around and take selfish destructive action first, and engage their brains second."

I've seen that happen after earthquakes & floods, thankfully in just a minority of the people. Public perception and confidence is a great challenge for leadership. Though there isn't a direct correlation between your situation & the dreaded "Y" word, I think you're being a tad disingenuous to claim that panic concerns didn't trouble anyone at all prior to the rollover.

That probably wasn't your point, it just looks that way from a different perspective.

-- flora (***@__._), September 14, 2000.

A postscript to the fuel story.

The "blockades" went down this morning, allowing the fuel companies to get their product rolling again. A great sigh of relief was heard.

Two hours later, two of the largest fuel companies announced (with an incredible sense of timing) that they would take this opportunity to raise their price at the pump, by 2p on standard petrol, and 4p on diesel. (2p = around 3.5 cents ). The "general public" is outraged at this move, and the blockade/protest seems about to start up afresh.

Tony Blair was quoted as saying that he is "baffled" at the timing, and the thinking, behind this decision. He has convened a meeting today with the heads of the companies concerned.

Rereading my "coincidence #2" above, I feel rather good about my "closely held paradigm".



-- w0lv3r1n3 (w0lv3r1n3@yahoo.com), September 14, 2000.

{Yeah, I saw it - I'm leaving space here for spider & the pardigms { great name for a band - by the way}. I think we're qubbling a thin line, & both feel confident in our own interpretations}.

You ball - spidey or whomever -

-- flora (***@__._), September 14, 2000.

Gad - too rushed & too many typos!

Sorry to offend.


-- flora (***@__._), September 14, 2000.

I don't this is the right forum for a
serious discussion on the Y2K problem.
I haven't seen one serious thread
discussing the real problems we are having.
All I've seen is personal attacks and
rabid distortions.

But for you flora, I will provide this
simple progression.

Massive refinery outages since January->
shortages of refined fuels on the world market->
increased prices for refined fuels->

If you would like links or more information
start a thread on Uncensored Spinoff or some
other less chaotic board. I'll let this go
for the animals to chew. :-'

-- spider (spider0@usa.net), September 14, 2000.

"Massive refinery outages since January"

Define "Massive". Define "refinery outage".

Compare to previous periods.

Then maybe you'll have a beginning to proving that any of this has to do with Y2K problems.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), September 14, 2000.


The UK is a gas PRODUCING nation. Our crisis has NOTHING . . NIL . . ZIP . . ZERO . . NADA . . to do with refinery shortages, or any other kind of shortages.

It has everything to do with the short-termism of a politically naieve population, and the greed of large corporations.



By the way.

This IS uncensored spinoff. (where did you think you were ?)

-- w0lv3r1n3 (w0lv3r1n3@yahoo.com), September 14, 2000.


FYI...there is another forum on LUSENET called "Uncensored spinoff". It is a spinoff of this spinoff.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), September 14, 2000.

I stand corrected.



-- w0lv3r1n3 (W0lv3r1n3@yahoo.com), September 14, 2000.

Has nobody told spider that the real TB2K moved to ezboard where chaos does not get in the way of rigorous intelligent discussion?
Where the Real TB2K Thrives

-- puzzled (spider@doesn't.know?), September 14, 2000.

Piss off, Puzzled

-- flora (***@__._), September 14, 2000.

Not that this will help clear up anything, infact it's probably quite combustable. This is a thread called "oil Chat" from about a year ago. If nothing else, it provides some potentially interesting insite into our current Oil situation.

Oil Chat of 1999 -augie

-- Augie Ben Doggie (august_23_99@yahoo.com), September 14, 2000.

One thread was long ago, and you had to be there, on the trail. One die Hard stood his ground on the gas/oil thing. I kept bumping into his logic. I did not discount it. Shakey, are you still among us? Along life's wayside, you meet some truthful folks. He/She predicted, such a thing. To start off slowly, to slowly escaluate. God did not ordain all of us to be fools, but to some, he gave knowledge and foresight. No I do not have a stockpile of anything now. It has been a wild ride.

-- Good Luck to (the@British.com), September 14, 2000.

I've been away for a couple of days so a delayed reply.With hindsight,perhaps I should have chosen another title for this thread.I, like some, spent a long time last year trying to evaluate the possible realities of the domino effect if we lost power/oil whatever. Like many under 50's in the Uk,I have never experienced shortages and neither have I experienced floods/hurricanes etc.

When fuel became in short supply last week then the (Y2K) domino effect began to unfold..which was quite fascinating in an academic way.

-- Chris (chris@griffenmill.com), September 18, 2000.

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