When "Y2K Denial" changes it's meaning

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On this forum, prior to the use of terms like DGI-"Don't Get It" and it's various spin offs (e.g., DWGI-"Don't Want to Get It", CGI-"Can't Get It", even TSTGI-"Too Stupid To Get It"), someone who categorically maintained that the Y2K Computer Problem would have little or no impact was said to be in "Y2K denial". This term was liberally applied (often by me) to anyone who could not understand what was considered to be OBVIOUS: That beginning on or about January 1, 2000 a significant amount of our computer technology would fail or become unlreliable, en masse, potentially causing societal chaos from which there might or might not exist a short term recovery.

It is now mid-January 2000, with the Y2K glitches that have occurred to date (see, for example, www.inforamp.net/~jwhitley/Y2KNEWS.HTM) barely even worth addressing. "Innocuous" to society at large would seem to be as good a description as any.

Yet, still, there are those who are claiming that the Y2K Computer Problem is yet ready to come down full force. There is Feb 29, the leap day that the computer code doesn't know about. Or the buffers in those embedded chips, that will start overflowing any-day-real-soon-now. Etc., etc.

There is a term that I think is applicable to those who don't grasp that the Y2K Computer Problem has turned out to be a big nothing. It is called being in "Y2K denial".

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), January 16, 2000


KOS knows y2k is over. Cpr should know this and yet he chooses to believe otherwise, probably because of this recent thread

Suppose Gary North wrote like CPR, and vice versa -- would this have affected your Y2K perception?

on which KOS had the audacity (cpr's view) to question the efficacy of cpr's writing style.

Get a grip, Charlie! Just because somebody questions the effectiveness of your ranting doesn't mean they're a shill, seditionist or someone who is in denial about y2k being a non-event.

-- Somebody (but@not.KOS), September 09, 2000


When "Y2K Denial" changes it's meaning


-- (Get@a.grip!), September 09, 2000.




This is the 100th post I think to this thread. Now its time to ask, "what is going on with td here?" and "why is spain back?" and WHO IS TRYING TO RE-WRITE HISTORY AGAIN?

I love it. Now *I* have to ask the Zombie question, "Why is TD back again and what is he "really up too?". This thinly disguised support for a spain and OPEN SUPPORT FOR YOURDON IS SILLY. Did Decker even understand what EY wrote? Did Decker understand that EY in over 2 years of marketing NEVER MADE AN EFFORT TO CORRECT THE OBVIOUS FLAWS IN THE BOOK OR THE POSTS ONLINE? NOW...........WHY WAS THAT IF Yourdon was merely "doing what he thought was best for his family?".

AS FOR NORTH.........GARY NORTH IS A SEDITIONIST WHO MOST LIKELY WOULD BE IN PRISON OR PAYING FINES FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE IN ***MOST CIVILIZED COUNTRIES***. Try his crap in Germany today and see how far it would go. IN ISLAMIC COUNTRIES, he might find his tounge cut off and his fingers "digitized" after a one hour trial for "crimes against the State". It is a tribute to the FIRST AMENDMENT he is allowed to try to eliminate it.

And that from someone on the Experts list that defended both North's right to write and speak and his right to be on the list. After all, who could be more of an expert on FUD than the FUD-Meister??

My behavior and that of DP or MARIA (remember the sneering "Troll Maria" she turned around on them?) is supposed to be "elevated" for PEOPLE WHO WALLOW IN........TOTAL AND COMPLETE BULL SHIT AND REJOICE IN DOING SO.

When I am in a social setting, business meeting or go to Church you may be certain I do not use "street language" but given the FACT that TB I and GN's list not to mention Hyatt's dictatorship forum were populated by Street People, I saw no reason to try to "elevate them" to my Private mode. Rather,,,,,,,,I adapted what I continue to believe is a method that they understand. It is clear that Decker does not. He would have one waste time as he did trying to "discuss" or "debate" with IRRATIONAL PEOPLE GRIPPED BY FEAR. FACT............MY TARGETS WERE CORP DECISION MAKERS, I.T. AND MEDIA TYPES AND NOT THE FEW ZOMBIES YAPPING AT A DECKER OR FLINT. Those targets were addressed PRIVATELY with lists and private E- Mailings. And for proof of that I have dozens of emails from Media thanking me for giving them the stories of the Doom Zombies. I also NEGATED MIKE ADAMS LAST EFFORTS (remember the 7 days in December plan). I merely sent that to 100 members of the Press before he launched it and within hours of the start he was getting calls from Press telling him to turn off the SPAMMING from his list. The Washington Post wrote that up as did all the services they passed it to.

ADAMS' "program" endorsed and aided by Hyatt, North and Lord Dumbo was "still born" and ended before it was supposed to.

Meanwhile DECKER "debated".

WE the de-bunkers and the concerned people TOOK ACTION. STILL WE GET "DECKER's STRAW MEN".

ANOTHER DECKER "straw man" concoction from someone who now appears to have obtained his "news of Y2k" from online and the popular media. He will never understand that my "public" posts have nothing to do with the work that many of us did off line. The "reason" I used profanity and called the Doom Scenario BULL SHIT is simple.

IT WAS BULL SHIT. Calling it a "cow dropping" might make it a bit more palatable for the Church Lady but I know Pastors that called Gary North's rantings BULL SHIT. And some did it on public list serves that Gary read (see the CR lists for data). QUOTE: While DP has not expressed this idea explicitly, I think he suffers from what I'll call the "Reuben Delusion." In this fantasyland, the Y2K doomsayers were part of a grand conspiracy. North, Yourdon, Hyatt, Hamasaki, Gordon, etc. were in league to use Y2K for evil purposes like the overthrow of the free world or some other bad thing. This diabolic plot would have succeeded if not for the heroic Debunkers. Reuben, DP and a handful of others were not fooled by the evil doomsayers. Nay, they (and they alone) unraveled the sinister plan and then shifted the tide of FUD by running a web site and sending emails to reporters. Is the job done for these super heroes? Of course not, because North, Yourdon, etc. still roam freely. The Debunkers must remain ever viligant, if somewhat incoherent and profane.

While you were wasting bandwidth on TB I pontificating, the de- bunkers were sending the most ludicrous posts to people who could do something to counteract the garbage. HOW that was done is none of your business. Doc Paulie had nothing to do with such effort save for the fact that he got copies of a lot of the stuff we were forwarding. He did dig out North's partner (Meyers) and the little seminar GN and Meyers held for the Faithful "How to make money on the Net and the Y2k Crisis" (ticket: $500 for the day).

Now for DECKER: a. You "left" TB how many times now? b. Why have you returned to "help" spain the clueless with your rather week points above that Patricia easily dismissed. c. DO *YOU* have a second job that you would like to tell us about? SEE, the game can be played all ways.

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), September 13, 2000.


-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), September 13, 2000.

One last note about "street language". Using it and embedding it in the middle of posts has an interesting effect. My words couldn't be cut and pasted elsewhere or extracted/snipped. The former prevented people from using them out of the "thread context" and the latter would insure that poster would have to "put the link" to the source online.

BOTH had the effect I wanted. Getting people back to BIFFY (in particular) or any place else I might have posted. DE-bunker was MINOR vs. what BIFFY did with its lead position in Yahoo. For months if you searched on Gary North or Gary North and Y2k up would come: GARY NORTH IS A BIG FAT IDIOT (BIFFY). Gary wasn't the only one who knew how to play the Web game. The 22 yr. old at BIFFY could give him lessons. AND DID........LOLOLOLOL.

-- Doomzies-Be-Them (buytexas@swbell.net), September 13, 2000.

CPR: Please get a job.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), September 13, 2000.

This be de 100th post Ah dink t' dis thread. Sheeeiit. Now its time t' ax, "what be goin' on wid td here?" and "why be spain back?" and WHO IS TRYING TO RE-WRITE HISTORY AGAIN?

Ah love it. Now *I* gots t' ax de Zombie quesshun, "Why be TD back again and whut be he "really up too?". Dis dinly disguised support fo' some spain and OPEN SUPPORT FOR YOURDON IS SILLY. Dun did Decka' even dig whut EY wrote? Dun did Decka' dig dat EY in ova' 2 years o' marketin' NEVER MADE AN EFFORT TO CORRECT THE OBVIOUS FLAWS IN THE BOOK OR THE POSTS ONLINE? NOW...........WHY WAS THAT IF Yourdon wuz merely "doin' whut he dought wuz best fo' his family?".

AS FOR NORTH.........GARY NORTH IS A SEDITIONIST WHO MOST LIKELY WOULD BE IN PRISON OR PAYING FINES FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE IN ***MOST CIVILIZED COUNTRIES***. Try his crap in Germany today and see how far it would go. IN ISLAMIC COUNTRIES, he might find his tounge cut off and his fingers "digitized" afta' some one hour trial fo' "crimes against de damn State". It be some tribute t' de FIRST AMENDMENT he be allowed t' try t' eliminate it.

And dat fum someone on de 'Sperts list dat defended both North's right t' scribble and speak and his right t' be on de list. Afta' all, who could be more o' an 'spert on FUD dan de FUD-Meista'??

Mah behavio' and dat o' DP o' MARIA (rememba' de sneerin' "Troll Maria" she turned around on dem?) be supposed t' be "elevated" fo' PEOPLE WHO WALLOW IN........TOTAL AND COMPLETE BULL SHIT AND REJOICE IN DOING SO.

When Ah am in some social settin', business meetin' o' go t' Church ya' may be certain Ah do not use "street language" but given de FACT dat TB Ah and GN's list not t' menshun Hyatt's dictatorship forum wuz populated by Street Suckas, Ah saw no reason t' try t' "elevate dem" t' mah Private mode. Sheeeiit. Ratha',,,,,,,,Ah adapted whut Ah continue t' reckon be some method dat dey dig. It be clear dat Decka' duz not. He would gots one waste time as he dun did tryin' t' "discuss" o' "debate" wid IRRATIONAL PEOPLE GRIPPED BY FEAR. FACT............MY TARGETS WERE CORP DECISION MAKERS, Ah.T. AND MEDIA TYPES AND NOT THE FEW ZOMBIES YAPPING AT A DECKER OR FLINT. Dose targets wuz addressed PRIVATELY wid lists and private E- Mailings. And fo' proof o' dat Ah gots dozens o' emails fum Media dankin' me fo' givin' dem de stories o' de Doom Zombies. Ah also NEGATED MIKE ADAMS LAST EFFORTS (rememba' de 7 days in Decemba' plan). Ah merely sent dat t' 100 members o' de Press before he launched it and within hours o' de start he wuz gettin' calls fum Press tellin' him t' turn off de SPAMMING fum his list. De Washington Post wrote dat up as dun did all de services dey passed it t'.

ADAMS' "program" endorsed and aided by Hyatt, North and Lord Dumbo wuz "still born" and ended before it wuz supposed t'.

Meanwhile DECKER "debated".

WE de de-bunkers and de damn concerned suckas TOOK ACTION. STILL WE GET "DECKER's STRAW MEN".

ANOTHER DECKER "straw man" concocshun fum someone who now appears t' gots obtained his "news o' Y2k" fum online and de damn popular media. Sheeeiit. He gots'ta neva' dig dat mah "public" posts gots nothin' t' do wid de work dat many o' us dun did off line. Sheeeiit. De "reason" Ah used profanity and called de damn Doom Scenario BULL SHIT be simple. Sheeeiit.

IT WAS BULL SHIT. Callin' it some "cow dropping" might make it some bit more palatable fo' de Church Lady but Ah know Pastors dat called Gary North's rantings BULL SHIT. And some dun did it on public list serves dat Gary eyeball (see de damn CR lists fo' data). QUOTE: While DP gots'ta not 'spressed dis idea 'splicitly, Ah dink he suffers fum whut I'll call de "Reuben Delusion." In dis fantasyland, de Y2K doomsayers wuz part o' some grand conspiracy. Ya' know? North, Yourdon, Hyatt, Hamasaki, Gordon, etc. Sheeeiit. wuz in league t' use Y2K fo' evil purposes likes de overthrow o' de free world o' some otha' bad doodad. Dis diabolic plot would gots succeeded if not fo' de heroic Debunkers. Reuben, DP and some handful o' others wuz not fooled by de evil doomsayers. Nay, dey (and dey alone) unraveled de damn sinista' plan and den shifted de damn tide o' FUD by runnin' some web site and sendin' emails t' reporters. Be de job done fo' dese supa' heroes? O' course not, a'cuz North, Yourdon, etc. Sheeeiit. still roam freely. Ya' know? De Debunkers must remain eva' viligant, if somewhat incoherent and profane. Sheeeiit.

While ya' wuz wastin' bandwidth on TB Ah pontificatin', de de- bunkers wuz sendin' de most ludicrous posts t' suckas who could do sump'n t' counteract de damn garbage. Sheeeiit. HOW dat wuz done be none o' yo' business. Doc Paulie had nothin' t' do wid such effort save fo' de fact dat he gots copies o' some lot o' de stuff we wuz forwardin'. He dun did dig out North's partna' (Meyers) and de damn little seminar GN and Meyers held fo' de Faithful "How t' make bread on de Net and de damn Y2k Crisis" (ticket, dig dis: $500 fo' de day).

Now fo' DECKER: some. Ya' "left" TB how many times now? b. Sheeeiit. Why gots ya' returned t' "help" spain de clueless wid yo' ratha' week points above dat Patricia easily dismissed. Sheeeiit. c. Sheeeiit. DO *YOU* gots some second job dat ya' would likes t' tell us about? SEE, de game kin be played all ways.

-- crp (buytexas@swbell.not), September 13, 2000.

I could not have asked for a better example of the "Reuben Delusion." Reuben obviously feel he (and others) played a critical role in debunking the evil doomsayers and their minions. And his proof, ladies and gentleman, are emails from his grateful fans. What irony. This is the same type of "proof" used by doomsayers like Paula Gordon. (chuckle)

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@att.net), September 13, 2000.

OK, Ken, don't believe it. But the fact is it's the truth. And there are no delusions of grandeur either.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), September 13, 2000.

"I don't give Yourdon credit for being a smart huckster?"

Sure I have several times on this very thread. Yourdon cannot even figure out his website's Virginia traffic is not the "evil gumbit", but from AOL.

Ed Yourdon has been WIND-CHECKING and providing written commentary to a small portion of the IT community for decades. It is what he does. Unlike CPR, I believe Ed never corrected his What-ifs because he never UNDERSTOOD the issue technically. But even giving him this slack is weak when one understands the significance of the supposed trigger date issues and his "I am done folks" deal from the summer of 1999, and then his return.

Ed Yourdon is a very good CONman is what he is. Most of the voices from the Y2k Donner Party were. They didn't need to understand the issues since their followers didn't or cared to. Chances of them ever being found-out was low. Only threat to their schemes are folks like us Debunkers who stand up and speak out. Freaking entire IT industry should have stood up and told Ed Yourdon to GET LOST OLDMAN.

Arrogant ignorant assholes on this thread then act the part of all good Nazis and call me names. Even have a Nazi on this very thread explaining how we are but a couple of corrupt people away from sending fellows to the Gas Chambers. He has now rewritten Charlie's post using all the good stereotypical language all racists know so well. Course the monuments of liteary parse are too blinded by their own brilliance to see the OBVIOUS and will goose-step behind the wrestler. See they missed all the other clues from the Conmen so to expect them to see a Nazi in front of them is really nutso.

Poor Maria, looks the record in the face and has but the retort I am Superman, or is it Mental Dwarf? Unable to have had an original thought or insight herself, she attacks any who have, as being somehow at a level above human. Look Maria, I am NOBODY, basically a major point of my deal all along. I do not even use my own name ya MORON. Like I care if you love me? I am not even in IT in ANY capacity. I represent the average Joe who would be handed the Y2k papers and say...Geesh what NONSENSE. And guess what, they freaking DID while you and your waffling pals here played with outright CONMEN and HUCKSTERS. I am no Superman, but I am smart enough to know when somebody is "playing me" and you have been turned over and done real good.

Maria you are pissed off because I bagged your boy Dubya. I reflected most Americans opinion on the Lewinski nonsense. Hey you got a grudge. Well BooHoo for you. This is cyberspace, America honey, WELCOME.

We are Americans exercising our Free Speech. We take no money for ANY of this. We do not have tapes-newsletters-beans or generators to hawk.

Are we a tad bit too committed? Well no kidding, like this is somehow being hid? Gary North is a Big Fat Idiot, does that sound like we care if the dumbf*cks on this webboard get it? I don't write for you. I write for an idea, called FREEDOM.

In fact, I know beyond any doubt, a KOS or a Ken Decker are INCAPABLE of ever getting it. One thinks a Nazi return as close as a few corrupt individuals, and the other thinks an indicator of a healthy economy is the presence of good amount of Conmen. Would take YEARS to open the eyes of these dimbulbs if one had that much time to waste.

Ken Decker posts from his governmental Job about the beauty of a Free Economic model. Recommends that everyone has to be the expert. If done wrong, you hire a lawyer. He gets paid to sit around and post here, just like Paul Milne does thru his tax-breaks. And they call me a mirror of Milne?

Course exercising one's rights is going to look very bizarre to the types round here. Freedom is BIZARRE, is RADICAL, is rare. More attractive the folks who play to your weaknesses. Who stroke your fat egos. Who pander to the worst in people.

First Amendment is the BALANCING factor against all manner of Baloney. It is the tiny alternative to a COURT TRIAL which in Ken Decker's DELUSION appears from the darkeness as his ONLY alternative if done wrong. Lack of awareness causing one to hold Deckerisms.

The price of Freedom and Liberty is constant spraying of the baloney which hitches a ride along with truth. All here have the dam right to spew any old thing they want, including those who stand up and confront it. This process is Freedom, legal remedies come into play when folks have sat and remained silent and offer little.

Leave you with a snip of the last paragraph-Newbie link, from Debunkers.."You have not even begun to "get it" if you think the information here looks "strange", I can assure you." verified by the fact Y2k was not something even close to being fixed, it never was the big monster sold.

-- Doc Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), September 13, 2000.

Did it ever "occur" to you in January-Feburary-March 1999 that Y2k was a pile of baloney? Even now do you get that? Course not, so why should anyone trust your judgement?

Quotably Quoted - What the 2/99 Senate Report Really Said...


-- What we knew (in@February.1999), September 13, 2000.

Doc, I know the average Joe and you're no average Joe. You are sick and demented.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), September 13, 2000.

You do huh, well you gots a Nazi right under your nose and miss that, so thanks for your analysis. It means ZERO just like the outdated Senate turd meant ZERO for those of us IN reality.

-- Doc Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), September 13, 2000.

Oh great. Somebody posts the Senate report, no not the Senate report, a link to an interpretation of the Senate report, an interpretation that was quite wrong by the way, for the umpteenth time. Big freakin' deal! When I first read their report I thought OK, they know what we know--that Y2K may cause some problems, but nothing we can't deal with. When the doomers read it, they found all kinds of problems that weren't even there! Major disconnect here, and it's still going on.

And what the heck happened to you Maria???

Did it ever occur to any of you that some posters style might be the result of the fact that we're trying to say what we want to say in a short amount of time? I don't, and I'm sure Doc Paulie doesn't, have time to re-re-re- read what I write and clean it up. This isn't a novel or a news article, it's opinion. You may have all day to reflect on what you're writing, but all I have is a few moments to get a point across.

By the way, I still want to know if I'm right about the name "Doc Paulie"...does it mean something like "Doc Polly" ?

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), September 13, 2000.

I thought about "standing up and saying so" to fight truth, justice and the American way and decided you weren't worth it. You're welcome to your ranting.

FWIW Stephen, (I'm wasting my time with this bozo), for the record I wasn't played by "my pals". I am IT, worked Y2K remediation, knew from the start it wouldn't be the end, disagreed with everything Eddie had to say, and worked on New's Year to watch the fireworks that didn't occur. You're such a dip.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), September 13, 2000.

OK, gang, looks like the party has moved to yet another room. See you over at:

"The Reuben Delusion" (Ken Decker, kcdecker@att.net, 2000-09-13) http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl? msg_id=003nk0

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), September 13, 2000.

. . . .Y2k was not something even close to being fixed, it never was the big monster sold.

I take it you're saying there never could have been significant problems even if there had been no attempt to fix it.

That's something easy to claim now after $300 billion or more was spent to fix Y2K. Most responsible and seemingly informed Y2K speakers were saying before the outcome that Y2K was something that had to be addressed. For example, Peter de Jager said this in 1998...

http://www.csis. org/html/y2ktran2.html#dejager

Let me reiterate something that Senator Bennett said. If today were December 31, 1999, and our systems were in the current state they are in today, tomorrow our economy worldwide would stop. It wouldn't grind to a halt. It would snap to a halt. You would not have dial tone tomorrow if tomorrow were January 1st, year 2000. You would not have air travel. You would not have Federal Express. You would not have the Postal Service. You would not have water. You would not have power. Because the systems are broken.

I know you don't like hearing it. I know it is classed as hype and exaggeration. The problem is: it happens to be a fact which you yourself can verify.

Very few problems occurred in January 2000. I don't know how much of that can be attributed to Y2k being fixed and how much can be attributed to Y2K not needing to be fixed. I don't think you do either, Doc. But the idea some things had to be fixed was the prevailing one in the late '90s, and it was never clear even later in 1999 that all of what needed to be fixed worldwide had been fixed.

-- Hindsight (is@20.20), September 13, 2000.




-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), September 13, 2000.

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), September 13, 2000.

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