While standing in buffet line at a baby shower, I over heard the two young ladies in front of me talking: 1st one said " Stephanie has 4 girls, I wonder if she'll have another one ~~ I think she is crazy. I have only one and I can't afford it."2nd young lady " I have one, I don't want any more~~hell, I don't even want the one I have!Why would someone want 5 of the damn little bas---!" There were at least 20 people in ear-shot of this conversation! I almost cried ~~~How could someone say such a thing about a child.. He was standing right next to them! This is not the only such thing I have heard from our young adults that made me think we have raise a whole generation of brats but it was the most upsetting! It seems every time I "go out" I understand MORE and MORE why I enjoy being on our farm!!!!Sorry to vent!!!

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), September 09, 2000

Answers

Response to Over heard !

Vent away! I can relate: my sister has two that she puts in daycare all week even though she's not working most of the time. A neighbor said she would never stay home with her kids: she'd go crazy. My mother thinks I stay home with mine because I'm lazy, she couldn't stand having kids. I could go on, but I think the point is clear:)

-- Epona (staceyb@myway.com), September 09, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

It is beyond me why people keep their children if they don't want them. There are plenty of childless couples who would adopt and love the child they have so little use for. In my experience, it was usually the fathers who had so little time for and interest in their children. Now the mothers have no time or interest in them either. Is it any wonder that so many kids end up running away or otherwise in trouble? One of my son's classmates in the GED program was arrested last week. He turned 16 in jail, having 7 felony charges against him ranging from unauthorized use of a vehicle to accessory to murder after the fact. One can only wonder where were his parents while this was happening. Unfortunately, I know. They were drunk and out having a good time. I don't believe the boy was involved in the murder. Here in Texas, if you are friends with anyone who has been charged with a felony, they try to bag you for it too. Texas has more prison cells than most independent nations. Gotta fill them some way. The boy did, however, "borrow" vehicles and admits to being an accessory after the fact on burglary. He appears to have been an unwanted child, or at least one that has had to raise himself. A child raising himself is usually one do-it-yourself project that fails miserably. Selfish parents who don't want their children and are unwilling to accept the responsibility for them are really what is wrong with the moral fabric of America. The causes for the rip in the moral fabric are many, but lack of responsibility and lack of love for children are the ultimate problem. We are a society that talks much about doing things "for the children", but as a group, we do not value children much. There is no longer a sense that we should do something to make the world a better place for our children. It's all about ME, ME, ME!!!

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), September 09, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

my turn!!! we have 4 girls 4,3and 1 yr. twins and all i hear is your done right? i ansewr that is our concern not yours. the other one is doesnt your husband want a boy? maybe he does but he sure loves his girls.

right now today we dont plan on having more but thats what we said after 2, once the babies get out of the"baby" age i will think alittle more about it 2 at once realy gets to you sometimes!

i get the are you lazy thing too, sure i am.. i care for 4 children , farm work, house work meals,our company's books any small or large emergencies and home school. boy i say i sure wish i worked only 9- 5.! not realy i would not change it for the world.

i tell myself that anyone who questions what i am doing is only jelouse{sp} and i feel sorry for them. i hate when people i know w/ 1 child complains about going shopping, it takes 3 carts to go get food, one for the twins, one for the 3and4 yr. old and one for the stuff talk about getting looks! but thats life and you learn how to deal w/ it!

-- renee oneill (oneillsr@home.com), September 09, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

I agree 100% with Green -- children have become "pets", and pets seem to have become disposable (as all of you involved with rescue groups know). Most parents don't really dispose of their children, though some do, or kick them out of the house -- most don't do that only for fear of what other people would think of them -- they just ignore them, belittle them, and put the children's needs last. Oh, they may have nice clothes and lots of toys, may even go to an expensive private school, but they aren't loved. (Love means wanting only the best for the one that is loved, with no expectation of getting anything in return -- the definition a pastor gave us one time. Another definition is "d-i-s-c-i-p-l-i-n-e", as in, if you can't be bothered to train up your child in the way he or she should go, then you don't truly love him or her. This one is also from a pastor and school principal.) Debbie, I've heard people say things like that right in front of their children before -- it seemed as if the children had heard it so often that it didn't even register anymore -- made me want to cry -- or take the child home with me to raise. Why DO these people keep their children only to destroy them? Parents not truly loving their children is something that has troubled me for years -- it's heart-breaking. And when the parents get old, will they complain because all their children care about is money -- their inheritance, and how much it costs to take care of an aging, ill parent? They won't have any right to complain! I've been sitting here contemplating this, and I think part of the problem is that because these young parents were not themselves raised right, they don't know how to raise their children right, and so the children are often unlikeable brats -- but the parents have no-one but themselves to blame! Also, one side-effect of legalizing abortion was the de- valueing of children, as well as all human life. They are expendable before birth, right up to birth, so why not after birth as well?

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 09, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

We have a local doctor's family here...they have I think 13 children living (the oldest is about 20) and have lost about 4. They homeschool and their kids are all remarkable. And they get criticized ALL the time.

The mama is so patient and I have NEVER heard her raise her voice about anything...so her kids are all easy going and patient too!

I've raised 3 birth kids and one step and I would have loved to have had more if our family had not been in upheavel then.

I have a daughter that says she wants a third child but she doesn't take care of the two she has!!! She's always looking for someone to keep them.

Everybody run and hug your kids and grandkids right now!!!! If they're not in hugging distance, send them a card with some stickers or some little trinket and tell them you love them and you're proud of them!!!

-- Suzy in 'Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), September 09, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

Here's something to brighten your day!! My wife and I are in our late twenties, love each other very much, and are raising our 18 month old son ourselves. She is a stay-at-home mom and we are planning to keep it that way AND we are planning on having MORE children. I know there are people out there like the ones described above, and it is so sad. But, there are people like us, too. Almost everyone from my high school class of 26 that got married still are and they all have children and the majority of the mothers stay at home with the babes. But the teachers always did tell us we were an awesome class!!

-- dave (IA) (tidman@midiowa.net), September 09, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

Ooooo, this one touched a nerve! My husband and I have a 4yr old son and a 1yr old daughter, and I hear almost every day, "you've got one of each, you won't need to have anymore!" And when I tell them we plan on having 3 or 4 more, I get "the look". You know, the one that says, "oh, you're one of those crazy people that thinks kids are fun."

I've been home with them since James was born, and had someone comment once that it must be nice to not have to work, and be able to watch TV all day---to be fair, I don't think that this particular twit had any kids of her own! But I really wanted to slap her at the moment.

I've been told that I'm completely nuts to want more than one. You know what I say? I can handle it, and obviously you can't!

Sorry. This is my particular pet peeve. Once upon a time it was a rare thing for people to want less than two. Now it's amazing to want any. My kids are a constant source of joy and wonder to me (ever see a little boy's face the first time it snows?) and if we could, my husband says he'd be happy to have a dozen!

Kudos to those of you who don't care how many children are in a family, as long as they are loved and cared for! Whether you choose to have one or ten, I applaud you.

-- Ali (philipandaleta@juno.com), September 09, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

Having come from a family where my mother talked about us kids the way the lady in the buffet line did, my wife and I , when we were finally blessed to have a little girl 16 months ago when we were both 35 years old, vowed NEVER to be that kind of parents...NEVER! My wife is a stay-at-home mom, and, though moneys' very tight, we would have it no other way. Someone else raising our daughter? Not on your life! I see my nephew, who is not wanted, and told so repeatedly, get into all kinds of trouble-stealing, etc.-and he is only 11 years old! Our children are our future, our hope, and I hope for most of us, our life...if only every parent felt the same as 'us' here on the Countryside web site!

-- Joe A (Threearrs@AOL.com), September 09, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

Good for those of you who love your children and are doing whatever it takes to raise them right! I think there is a much higher percentage of good parents on this forum than in the general populace -- maybe something about the people who are attracted to the homesteading lifestyle.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 09, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

When I was young, my mother had a second set of children. My sisters were 8 and 9 years younger then me. All my young life I remember watching my sisters. I had to do the chores because they were too young (my older brother was a boy so he didn't have to do anything) From there, I did the cooking and housekeeping for everyone while my mother worked (she didn't have to but did because she had a free maid) When my son was born, I just put all my everything into him and didn't want any more. Sometimes I wish I had one more to keep him from being spoiled but I can honestly say we can afford to do more with only one.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), September 09, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

Thank-you!! Thank-you! I am so glad to be a part of this wonderful forum, with people who think like my husband and I do! We have three children (who are now young adults)..Every minute, every penny and ounce of love, that we have has gone to them and for them! They are our heart and soul! I was raised in a family that treated and talked to us like this child was. MAYBE, this is why it broke my heart! I wanted to scoop him up ~ hug him ~ take him with me! I just couldn't say anything--nothing would come out...I went to the restroom and cried!!!

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), September 09, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

Having worked with delinquent teenagers for a number of years, I can say that the VAST majority of these kids come from homes and parents with just exactly that horrible attitude. Everything from the constant litany of "why you ruined my life" to "here's a $20, go (somewhere else) and have fun." The pain it causes the kids is unbelievable, and then the parents have the nerve to wonder why their kids are so hard to deal with. Many of them get into trouble because that's the one way they can guarantee that their parents HAVE to pay some attention to them. With others it's even worse, as the parents teach the kids how to be steal and such because the kid can get a lighter sentence when they get caught.

At least karma still works sometimes, guess who gets to pick the parents retirement center should their health fail. With any luck, there are still some of those really awful ones waiting just for them.

-- Connie (Connie@lunehaven.com), September 09, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

Vaughn and I have three wonderful boys. We would have liked to have more but time and health cut us short. I love being home (most of the time) with my kids and some people just don't seem to understand that concept. I hear "I can't WAIT for school to start" from parents and I want to say, "What message does that statement send to your kids?!" but I never have. I usually can't wait for school to start too, but for different reasons - we homeschool and I like the structure it give to the day after a summer of running wild.

When my husband asks me to do something and I say I don't have time he teasingly asks what I do all day. My standard response is, "Between watching soaps and eating bonn bonns my day is shot." So if anyone ever thinks of asking me that question that would be my response, (then pray "Lord hold my tongue.")

Someone mentioned kids are turning out bad because their parents don't know how to raise them right because they weren't raised right themselves. That applies to Christian parents too. We both had loving Christian parents but there is so much spiritual maturity, nuturing and wisdom that we want to pass on to our kids that I feel like we never learned from our parents (not their fault) and sometime I feel at a loss for what to do. I read books and listen to seminars, etc. but get lost applying it all. I want so much more spiritually for my kids that I had myself. Maybe my expectations are too high. But, I pray "Lord, protect the kids from our mistakes and help them learn the good stuff", and then claim that the promise that the good work He started in us/them will be completed in Christ Jesus.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound depressing. But, there is hope for the future in those young people that are taking marriage and parenting seriously. The more children that can be raised up in that kind of family the better. God Bless Large Families!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Mrs. Vaughn (vdcjm5@juno.com), September 09, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

Between my husband and I, we have 7 children, two of which are teenagers. People who hear this are always saying that the teens must be a lot of trouble, what are they talking about? These kids are wonderful! And I don't know who came up with the idea of the terrible twos, but I think two year olds are especially nice. Mine have never been prone to the constant tantrums and fits that we hear are normal in this age group. I get really tired of people's attitudes about how many children we choose to have. Maybe it's an extension of the overpopulation stuff, I don't know, but they act like it's an affront to them that I have more than two children!

-- Rebekah (daniel1@transport.com), September 09, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

I think too that a problem with some (Christian?) families is that as the kids grow up and start understanding what the bible is teaching about the way it is supposed to be and so many times it is not. I think that Cristians really need to work so hard at being parents as God is refered to as the father and the stories of His love are based on the love a father should have for his family. What type of message are we giving the childeren of this nation about our God if they try to understand that He is our father. So many of the kids i see growing up will turn off on being a christian because of the treatment they have received from their own fathers and just can't imagine the hell they will be in if they were to have a father with supenatural powers with the hurt so many of them have from just a human father. I am sorry i probably should not have posted as i don't have childeren of my own but i too worry about the example we are giving to this generation of kids. From the throw away abortions to Dr. death for the seniors rather than taking care of them. I think the hardest part of moving to missouri was leaving my neice and nephew in phoenix. I am sure that my nephew does not show his e- mails to me to any of his friends because I am positive he would take a lot of abuse for always ending the message just as i do to him and his sister in I LOVE YOU. gail

-- gail missouri ozarks (gef123@hotmail.com), September 10, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

Hey, Mrs. Vaughn, that's exactly what I tell my husband when I get that question, but he's not kidding when he asks. I, too, was raised in a horrible, horrible family, but I'm trying to do better. When my children where born, I was military, so had to leave them at a sitter when they were 30 days old--no exceptions. Now, I've been with my girls, 13 and 16, for 4 years, and I love it. It seems to have a good effect on them, they talk to me (usually), and they are really, really good kids.

My husband doesn't get it. He thinks they are old enough not to need me to be here for them so much, and is annoyed when I won't drop everything and go somewhere with him. Of course I'd love to, but it's just not his turn right now. The girls will be gone soon enough. The people he works with ask if I'm bored or whatever. Who has time to be bored? If I could just have time to catch my breath!

-- Teresa (otgonz@bellsouth.net), September 10, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

We never watched the TV show SURVIVOR. Just the commercials were more than enough for me, but as I understood from the radio, one of the men on the island was a middle school coach who also coached Little League baseball. He was supposedly offered a rather generous salary to be a coach for a pro baseball team, but turned it down to continue working with children. He told them he would rather teach and what he really enjoyed was coaching Little League. Now people think he is either crazy or a pedaphile. Some folks just don't get it.

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), September 10, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

I work outside the home and have since before my daughter was born, and went back to work 12 weeks after her birth. I currently work night shift (which I have most of my working life), 3 - 12 hour nights per week. This leaves my days free for school activities, etc... and I can work my schedule around a little in order to be able to make the ball games, band concerts, etc... And I miss very darn few of them. I also cheer on her friends who play the sports she's cheering at and also attend other sports that they play - breaks my heart when the parents aren't there. I've been room mother and class chaparone for 2 years of preschool, 8 years of primary school and am now on my third year at secondary school - Gee - do they have room mothers in college!?

Jes has my work numbers and permission to call at any time for any reason. The nights that I work, I always check in before she goes to bed. She also has her Dad, Step-dad and Grandpa available in the evenings, if she needs someone. Her friends know that our house has an open door, and there have been many, many mornings that I have had to weave my way between snoozing bodies in the family room - male and/or female - no discrimination here. I've called several parents and asked if their kid could spend the night when there has been trouble at home - it helps to give everyone a chance to cool off - and it's amazing how easy it is to talk things out over cookies and hot chocolate. Yeah - my frozen pizza and soda pop bill would probably feed a third world country - but these kids are worth it. In 16 years, I've only seen one that I thought was too far gone to save.

When Jes' Dad and I had her, we knew that our whole focus would be raising her. When we got divorced - our entire focus remained on raising her. When I remarried, my husband understood that he was number 2 in my life, and would be until she was raised up (or maybe forever). My daughter is the most important thing in my life - nothing is gonna get in the way of taking care of her - and hopefully helping to care for my Grandbabies too (in another 10 years!) . I agree with whoever said it above, this Countryside lifestyle lends itself to good parents!

-- Polly (tigger@moultrie.com), September 10, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

I grew up with a mother who never wanted kids, but had three. If abortions would have been legal she would have gotten them. HOWEVER - she always let us know that since we were here, that she loved us all and took care of us to the best of her ability, unlike my father, who decided he had an option (absence) and took it. I grew up knowing that my mother never would have had us if she'd had a choice, but also that once you make a decision to keep a child, you do what you must and get over it.

As opposed to the earlier posts about appearently loveless mother/child relationships, this odd combination of messages actually helped me grow up smarter and more prepared to look within myself thoroughly before making decision (or failing to) about whether or not to have a family. I have the choices that mom didn't, for which I am eternally grateful. My mother would never have seriously wished for our loss once we were born, although we did drive her to verbalize spurious wishes to that effect from time to time!

Do I want children? No. For various reasons, one of which is the honest dialog with my mother about the effect we had on her life, I have decided that I am not cut out for children and do not wish to be. My sister has a child that she was not planning on having, with similar fatherly behavior from "the sperm donor" (as he is known hereabouts) as our father bestowed. Her life has followed the difficult and predictable path of the single parent in a poor area of the country, which was what my mother wanted to spare us. Luckily, it has turned out that Magnolia is an outlet for any vestiges of maternal behavior I and my other sister, not to mention the rest of the family have that we can not manage to whip up into full blown usefulness otherwise, and everyone is happy, especially Stretch (Maggie), who is spoiled rotten by 5 grandmothers (mom, gran, great- aunt Betty, youngest sis, and I) and one grampa (my hubby) on an ongoing basis. Talk about a village. We take turns being the idiot.

I love my niece to death and would take her on in a heartbeat if anything happened to my sister (provided I could wrest her away form the rest of the family!), but that's close enough for me. My husband has the same feelings, although he thinks he may have an offspring out there somewhere (the possible mother has never bothered to hint that it's his and has never shown any interest whatsoever in his involvement, but he says the timing was right-ish - wouldn't shirk his duty if it were true, but doesn't see the point in persuing it, as the woman in question is happily married and this all happened over 15 years ago. He didn't even know about the possiblilty until well after the child was born. His attempts to contact the mother at that time were met with silence.)

I made it quite clear when we got married that I was never interested in children. In my opinion, my cats are my children and he agrees on that issue (he was devasted when the "baby" of our little family died of a snake bite recently, as was I. We had her cremated, as we will with all of the others as it goes, and will have them all buried with us when we go. We just couldn't stand the thought of burying her here where we rent and then having to go off and leave her when we head for our own place)

In my opinion, because of the openness shown to us by my mother, I am better off having looked and dicovered that I didn't want children before I found myself thrust into motherhood and finding it out the hard way. And there's the possiblity that my theoretical children would have been in the catagory of the mistreated and abused, as we were by our stepfather. I know that such "legacies" can be overcome, but if someone is thrown headfirst into parenthood at a young age when they don't want children, but have them out of ignorance, indifference, or a desire to do what they're "supposed" to, regardless of their desires, the stress and sheer unmanagability of the situation makes the possibilty of hand-me-down abusive habits almost inescapable. At least now I've had time to mature, become my own person, save $ and get an education and a stable marriage going. If anything happens and I end up with children, mine or someone elses, the spectre of such behavior manifesting itself is lowered to a level that is controllable. If ever I get or have chilren for some odd reason, I can rest assure that I will have the mental and emotional stability to handle the situation with far more ease and stability than I would've had at the age of 20, when mom had me; for that I thank her for her candidness, which gave me time to think, and a reality-based view of the real consequences of childbearing.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), September 10, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

Heres a problem with this web forum stuff. See also Cost to raise a child which is very similar to this thread. Jd

-- Jd (jdbelanger@tds.net), September 10, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

I really feel for alot of you having to be raised by a family that did not want children. I was blessed to come from a large family of *8 girls, my mother was a stay at home MOM. I am now following in my mothers footsteps I have 5 children ages 22, 19, 15, 14, 11. and I am a stay at home mom but is hasn't always been that way, when I did work full time by husband and I worked out a schedule so he would be there in the days and I would be at home in the afternoons. I feel that alot of todays problems with children is that they are not being raised by Mom or Dad but babysitters, and I do realize that at times this can't be avoided but that's the chain that needes to be broken. If todays children are being raised by others then chances are their children will be raised by others. Then again why do people have children when they don't want them, a friend of mine her dgt just had twins! She is already wanting try to find a job 3 or 4 days a week to as she puts it get a break, the twins are now only 10 weeks old, I hate to see what she is going to be feeling when they are 2. I know that there's not a book that tells mothers how to be mothers but childen are not asked to be born, would be mothers should think out that. Thanks for reading, god bless.

Tracy in TN

-- tracy emily (emilyfarms@tsixroads.com), September 11, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

This has been good reading!

I have two children-one girl(4)and one boy(almost 2);they are such precious gifts!I have never left them with anyone other than their father except for the 2 times I had jury duty(once with my mom,once with my pastor's wife)and the time I had our son(Annie went home with Tim's mom).

After I gave birth to my son(pitocin contractions!OUCH!!),the Dr.asked me if I was ever going to do this again.Yes!I told him.He and the nurse chocked back a good natured laugh,whereupon he told me I was the first one they'd ever heard say that!

Last night,I lay in bed looking at my children(we share the same room- not out of necessity:rather,for their security.)I thought to myself, this may be the last night I ever have them:I don't know how long He has loaned me these precious souls.Shouldn't that be my daily attitude from now onward?To take every day however rough and every moment however tough and use them in thankfulness to count for eternity!

I hope to have more children:for they are such blessings."Blessed is the man that hath his quiver full..." "He maketh the barren woman to keep house,and to be a joyful mother of children.Praise ye the Lord."

Well,I'd better get off the computer soon.Bye and God bless,~~~Tracy~~~

-- Tracy Jo Neff (tntneff@ifriendly.com), September 12, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

Some of us who don't want children are smart enough to not have them.

We never get any credit though.

-- Debra (solid-dkn@msn.com), September 12, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

Soni and Debra, kudos to you for your maturity! I did want kids, and had one, but decided to do my part for the planet, and got a vasectomy. Then, I met my current wife, and adopted her two kids. I love all three just the same. My daughter is planning to have one kid, then adopt one or two. Adopted kids are just as special as "natural" ones; it is the parents who need the maturity to realize this.

For about 90% of the other posts on this thread, HELLOOOOOO! Are you the least bit aware that this is a finite planet we live on? Are you aware that we cannot continue to crank out those cute little babies without concern for the world we are leaving for our kids, our grandkids, and our Mother Earth? Get with it, already. If you want to have more than one or two kids, can't you find enough love in your hearts to adopt?

Sheesh,

JOJ

-- jumpoffjoe (jumpoff@echoweb.net), September 12, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

I guess this is sorta giving away my age (but at my age, who cares?) I came from a family of 7 boys and me. When I was born, number 5, my oldest brother was not yet 6--and no twins in the family! I was baby of family for 6 years, then got 3 more brothers. We were never made to feel unwanted. Grew up without a lot of the extras but didn't everybody grow up that way in the 40's and 50's? I married fresh out of nurses training (the old 3 yr. diploma kind) and within a year, had our first son, the second son 2 years later, and 7 years after that, our miracle daughter. We could have had more material things, I guess, if I'd worked full time, but lots of things are more important than material things. I went back to work when our eldest was 6 weeks old, working 1 eve/wk. I'd leave him with my mother-in- law, his dad would come there and eat supper then take him home. His aunt was mortified that he could take care of a baby, even changing his diapers! I worked very little until the youngest was in college. I always arranged the work hours for when they were in school, or days when their dad wasn't working, etc. When they were 4,11 and 13, my husband and I went on a mission trip to Congo for 6 weeks and Gramma moved into our house to take care of them (grampa had died 5 yrs. earlier). I had to do a lot of seeking the Lord before I left the kids, but the miraculous answer is another long story. Now they are scattered--the oldest is in business with his dad, building houses (actually, he probably runs the business and his dad works part-time), second is artist in Seattle and daughter is mechanical engineer in New Orleans. No jail or arrest records. Two grand-daughters from eldest, 2 step-grandsons from daughter. I'd say we're pretty satisfied with the way they turned out, and question if that would be the case if it had been really necessary for me to work and leave them with baby-sitters (other than gramma). As for my brothers and me, no jail or arrest logs there, either. Just ask "hoot"--he's my baby brother! He doesn't know I posted this--will probably think I'm "basking in reflected glory" as Pap used to say-- he was a writer, too. I know this post is probably too long, but I'm pretty passionate about unwanted kids. Lots of times they turn out to be what they've been told they are--"dumb" "no-good" etc.etc.

-- ruth (bobtravous@email.com), September 12, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

Just thought of an added note--my folks MUST have liked kids! Just about the time I married, 2 older brothers drowned, a year later my folks took 2 of the grandkids to raise, then began to take foster kids. Some of those were raised by my folks, some stayed for shorter periods. Probably 100+ kids went through their home. I like kids but I was never cut out to be a foster parent. Problem is, a very few people who shouldn't take foster kids, do.

-- ruth (bobtravous@email.com), September 12, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

We adopt cats, sick little pitiful things that know, through some Higher Power, that this is the place to show up if you want to live in kitty heaven. Will be adopting my second Feline Leukemia + stray tommorow; now my precious (terminally ill) Spot will have someone she can play with without getting chased away from! Her (his?) name is Felix, and it was discovered at the church courtyard where the Habitat for Humanity offices are located. Only chance that I now work for them? I think not - and neither does St Francis, whose statue is the focal point of the courtyard and Felix's favorite spot. Things happen the way they're meant to and I firmly believe that we're to take care of the souls assigned to us in this lifetime, regardless of their form. Only an unlikely set of coincidences resulted in my finding out from its rescuer that it was still alive (I first saw it weeks ago and had heard that it had been destroyed due to its illness) and that it was in need of a home. The vet is not charging anyone for its care to this date, other than 1/2 the boarding fee, which I won't be responsible for. Things are as they are meant to be, so it's important to make the best of what you got, because, just like anything in life, its only when we prove that we can play nice with what we have that we're given more.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), September 13, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

I really appreciated this topic and made sure my daughter knew I wanted and loved her after reading it. I was woken from a rare napping opportunity yesterday by the neighbor I had mentioned in my previous response. She asked if I could keep her son for the day because he was suspended from school for responding to a threat of being shot with an "I'll get you back" threat. I knew this poor kid would be belittled the whole night after his mom picked him up and then double wammied when his dad got home. Add a mouthy teen cousin who joins in because she lives there and a little sister who loves to get him going. This kid was in for it! I stopped by to drop off some clothes he had left behind and see how it was going. The police are supposed to stop by tonight to talk with the parents and as they talked about it, my worst fear was realized when my neighbor said, right in front of her son that she would just let them take him. I told her never to say those things in front of other people, and especially in front of her son. The boy just started crying and walked out of the room. Talk about feeling unwanted! I warned them that with their attitude, the state wouldn't take their kid, but would send councilors in their home and would run their home for them. They would be invaded. They need to be more supportive. Their tone did change, I am happy to say and even happier when the boy was dropped off this morning and he thanked me for standing up for him. I in no way justified or condoned his behavior, but the boy is not a hopeless case. He's a very sensative 10 yr old who doesn't feel loved or wanted. This boy asks his mother if he can kiss her good night before he leaves to camp out in the back yard with his friend! How I would love to have a son like that! I don't want to interfere in another family's business, but if I can help even a little, I will. It is heartbreaking to know that this kind of stuff is going on daily a million times over. Blessings to those of you here who truly love the kids!

-- Epona (staceyb@myway.com), September 14, 2000.

Response to Over heard !

I too love children - my own and others. I would give anything in the world to be able to be home with them all the time, but as a single mom I just can't. But I am there as much as possible. And they know how much I love them cuz I tell them so several times a day. I'm not cut out for foster parenting or adopting but I lead Girl Scouts. I get to "borrow" other kids for a couple hours a week - and I tell them how much I care too. I'm also helping others learn how to be Girl Scout leaders and helpers. With all my troops I have nearly 60 "adopted" girls at this time.

-- Deborah (ActuaryMom@hotmail.com), September 14, 2000.