*SPOILER* season 7, episode #5

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Sharing this in an attempt to get everyone off this ridiculous argument between the WB board people and here. I frequent BOTH places, and there are things I like, and things I don't like, about both. Personally, I favor the newsgroup over both. Decent moderation of serious discussion and random silliness/stupid topics. Mixture is good.


"Flight Of Fancy"

- Mark flies in a man with heart problems and the chopper he's in goes down. (doesn't crash....just kinda lands really hard or something)

- Carter tells a 16 year old he is HIV positive against his grandmother's wishes with devestating results.

- Luka goes on a hunt for the identity of his deceased mugger.

- Peter Benton: new ER attending (how the hell did this happen?) He's the only attending around, so you can imagine how it goes.

-- JLS (ewwhatevr@aol.com), September 07, 2000


Wow! Where did this come from? I guess this confirms that Luka does indeed kill the mugger. And Carter...*sigh* You'd think he would be minding his P's and Q's with regard to policy, so soon after rehab.

-- Cecelia (evilstoat@hotmail.com), September 07, 2000.

What makes you think Carter is violating policy in this episode? Carter may be required by law to notify even a minor if they are HIV positive. He might even be required to ask the sixteen year old whether he is sexually active or not. If so, he might have to encourage ( or contact the sexual partner) the teenager to notify all of his sexual partners for HIV. They are very concerned with the spread of HIV so I am pretty certain that Carter was required to tell the teen of his HIV status despite what the teens grandmother wanted. If i am wrong , I would be surprised. Having said that I hope something awful does not happen because someone does not handle finding out about their status right now,. Carter will feel awful even if he was required by law to tell.

-- Brenda (jckwfan@aol.com), September 07, 2000.

Well, that didn't last long...*sigh*

I guess I was just jumping to the conclusion that the medical issues of the minor are in the hands of the minor's guardian. Perhaps someone with more knowledge than I have in the field will clarify that. At any rate, I think it was the "devastating results" that caught my eye, and made me think "Uh oh, he's in trouble again."

-- Cecelia (evilstoat@hotmail.com), September 07, 2000.

Peter, an ER attending? Veddy interesting... I think I like it, if only because it promises to get Peter (and Eriq La Salle) back in the center of the action again. Unfortunately, it would appear it also gets him closer to the Cleobot... but, it also would get him closer to Carter too, which is never a bad thing!

I hope the show doesn't abandon the "Upstairs, Downstairs" aspect of showing life in the E.R. versus life in the surgical department, though. (Personally, I miss Anspaugh, Dr. Hicks and even Dale Edson.) Hopefully they will keep Romano and Elizabeth working away up there.

-- Tracy (bankybooda@aol.com), September 07, 2000.

Thanks for the info. JLS! This sounds very interesting and so far it's looking like a great season.

-- Cammie (rmaelhorn@home.com), September 07, 2000.

Keep in mind that during season one , Dr. Hicks was brought in as an ER attending and she was still a practicing surgeon. We will probably see Benton in surgery as well as treat patients in the ER.

A Dr. telling a minor teenager about their health is nothing new on ER. There have been times when the Dr. ( Susan I think) had to have the mother leave the room so she could tell her daughter that she was pregnant. It was up to the teen to tell her Mom about her condition. Susan told that to the teen. This season we saw Carol tell a teenager that she has cervical cancer without her parents being present. Carol told her that shecould not tell them, but the girl ought too. I'm sure there have been more cases over the year. However, it does show that in certain cases the Drs can not tell the parents about their teenager condition if the teenager does not want them to know. I wish something bad was not happening as well for carter telling a teen he his HIV positive. That's all Carter needs right now while he is still recovering to have some other thing on his mind. More reason for him to stay depressed.

-- brenda (jckwfan@aol.com), September 07, 2000.

If the grandmother already knows the kid is HIV+ and the kid doesn't know, then the question is, why does the grandmother know? I would guess that the kid was *born* with HIV, and the mother died from it, and the kid is now being raised by the grandmother. So I suppose that produces an interesting situation for Carter to deal with.

-- Tracy (bankybooda@aol.com), September 07, 2000.

I wonder if the "devastating results" will be suicide? That would be awful! Carter has enough to deal with as it is. Well, we don't have much longer to wait for the new season. It sounds like it is going to be good.

-- Katrina (cattrek2@hotmail.com), September 07, 2000.

Tracy - you're right on the money.

-- JLS (ewwhatevr@aol.com), September 07, 2000.

The teenager has probably been HIV positive for a long time and the grandmother was told when the boy was too young to be told. In that case, the grandmother probably did not do as much as she could for her grandson because he would have known if he was taking any HIV cocktail drugs. I also would think it would be stupid not to tell a teenager about being HIV positive when the teenager could be spreading HIV around. He could be infecting other teens he has had sex with if they were not very careful in his use of condoms. If grandmother knows her grandson is HIV positive and he is sexually active and does nothing, I don't feel too much sympathy for her at this point. She is jeopardising the lives of other people as well. I think suicide is a very definite possibility esp if the teenager winds up finging out that he infected someone else with the HIV virus. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. It sounds like Carter is in another darn if I do , darn if I don't situation. However, he may not have any choice in the matter because he may be required by law to tell the teen once he finds out about the teen status. I also think that telling the teen would have been the best course of action esp. if we find out the teen has sexual partner. I just Carter does not feel too awful for doing his job. Afterall, if he did not tell the teen, there is a much greater chance that the teen would potentially be infecting more people by the time he does find out. I don't want anything bad to happen to the teen. It will be interesting to find out why the teen was not told beforehand.

-- Brenda (jckwfan@aol.com), September 07, 2000.

This is an interesting scenario. If you will look on the Links page of the www.digiserve/er site you will find an interesting link to bioethics.net. I have found this link very informative in the past..it specifically discusses cases we see each week on ER. They are somewhat behind from last season (the last epi was April 13 or somewhere around there).

Anyway I was looking at the ethical issue on the epi where the two 14 year olds came in and Carol said she could not and would not tell their parents about anything that was found out. On the bioethics site it mentions that "In most states, minors are allowed to consent for STD testing and treatment without parental consent". Now I am not sure if this pertains to this scenario or how this will play out. If this boy could come in for a test for HIV without his parents' consent it stands to say that he COULD be told about his condition without the consent of a guardian. This specific case goes on to say that follow up treatment is the responsibility of the guardian - not the minor and that a minor would have a hard time getting treatment without consent (in that case for HPC and cervical cancer). Also, there are some sexually transmitted diseases that have to be made known to the Health department because of public health and safety...I don't know if HIV falls into this category.

I too, have thought of the possibility of this boy to commit suicide after finding out the news. We shall wait and see. I have to say that I am sickened that the grandmother would not tell her potentially sexually active grandson that he has the terrible disease and could be spreading it around. And why wouldn't she want him to get any help?!

Sorry this is so long and hope it make sense!

-- amanda (amanda.rehm@home.com), September 07, 2000.

We won't know until it airs, of course...There might be some religious dynamic at work in the woman's head, or she might simply be afraid that he WILL kill himself. But it helps to know whose side the law will be on. I wasn't sure what that would be, not being a member of the medical community, and seeing that there have been times when I've been surprised to learn that something IS legal when I thought it wouldn't be. (I'm still surprised that that 8-months pregnant girl was within her legal right to refuse the C-section, for example.)

After watching this show and discussing it with people here for a while, I've come to the conclusion that when there IS doubt of some kind on the doctor's part--and I suppose it wouldn't be a drama if there wasn't moral or ethical dilemmas every week or so---then the doc HAS to go with what the law says, whether we or the patient like it or not. I absolutely do not want doctors making moral decisions for me (e.g. Elizabeth calling that anorexic woman's mother, or Luka trying to force the young woman to have a C-section against her will). So, if Carter was doing what he had to do, even though it was going to upset the grandmother, then there shouldn't be any repercussions from that. Whatever the "devastating results" are, they're more likely emotional than not...so at least Carter won't be in the doghouse again. We all knew he was going to have a hard time adjusting to life in the ER again, after all...This sort of emotional rollercoaster is nothing new.

-- Cecelia (evilstoat@hotmail.com), September 07, 2000.

A child with HIV can infect others long before he becomes sexually active. He might get into a fight, bite another child, or get hurt and bleed on someone else, for example. A responsible parent or guardian would make it clear to the child that he should be extra careful, and when the child is older he'd want to know why. Another possibility for the episode would be that the teenager has contracted HIV from some previous medical procedure, e.g. a transfusion for hemophilia. It will be interesting to see if they have a plausible reason for the grandmother to want the teenager not to know he has HIV.

-- Driad (driad@mailcity.com), September 07, 2000.

Wow, interesting eppy. Thanks JLS. Also, I remember seeing a few weeks ago, on ER Weekly, a photo showing (I *think*) Carter and some other person on a roof. The other guy was ready to jump, and carter was in the forefront with his hands up. I'm wondering if this guy is the one who is informed that he has HIV, which could be a devastating outcome of some sort. Just mere speculation-- after all, it's "flight" of fancy.

-- samira (matb_west@chickmail.com), September 07, 2000.

Carter doesn't have a good track record when it comes to patients of his that go up to the roof. Good luck JC!

-- joan (joanofarc24@hotmail.com), September 07, 2000.

Samira, I think that photo you mentioned was the transvestite who jumped off the roof (sorry, too lazy to look up the ep) way back when. The man was upset because he couldn't pass for a woman anymore.

Hopefully, he won't have another experience like that. Yeesh.

-- Cecelia (evilstoat@hotmail.com), September 07, 2000.

Cecelia, when was that episode? I can't remember it...

Sounds like a powerful premiere -- but doesn't sound like what we've heard before, about it picking up where it left off or picking up with Carter returning for his first day back and focusing on his relationships with his colleagues. No matter what, though, I cannot wait until ER comes back -- rerun television is so boring -- thank goodness the Olympics start soon!

-- Dru (dklny00@aol.com), September 07, 2000.

Dru, I believe that episode was "ER Confidential." There's no Summary/Review for that episode here (hint, hint, Phyl!) but I did a search for "transvestite" and another page came up (I think from the FAQ) describing the episode briefly.

BTW---Just a JOKE, Phyl! :) <-----Note smiley face indicative of humor

-- Cecelia (evilstoat@hotmail.com), September 07, 2000.

Tracy - HA HA "Cleobot"! LOL! That is the perfect description! Kudos to you or whoever it was that invited the word. :)

-- Carla (chloe4293@netscape.net), September 07, 2000.

I hope they can make the storyline compelling even if it's only for 1 episode. The interesting thing is, the whole dynamics of HIV has changed since ER first went on the air. I'm not an AIDS expert, but there seems to be a lot more hope now for HIV positive patients since the series started in '94. Why a grandmother wouldn't want the kid to know, and to get treatment, is a bit beyond me. Hopefully the episode will do some explaining about the options.

On the other hand, my second cousin died of AIDS about five years ago and she never told her family she had it until 2 weeks before she died. It was a real shock. I still can't understand why she hid it for so long. We never got a chance to support her or anything.

-- Tracy (bankybooda@aol.com), September 07, 2000.

As someone with HIV I feel a need to comment.....The child passing HIV without having sex is extremely rare..First with biting,the one being bitten is in more danger of being infected,not the biter,as HIV is not present in large enough quantities to infect.As for bleeding, you would literallly have to rub open bloody wounds together to infect that way.Now if the child was sharing needles or having sex it would be different.I just had to point out that aside of those to instances its almost impossible to pass

-- Jennifer Mac Donald (jennimomABC@ aol.com), September 08, 2000.

Peter as an ER attending hmm?

There is precedent. Remember when Mark gave Doug a few shifts as an attending in season 2? Doug was a fellow, Peter is a fellow. I guess as long as they're not residents... Maybe this is what's going on.

Keep the spoilers coming JLS! And Thank You!

-- S. Trelles (trelles@ix.netcom.com), September 08, 2000.

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