Study Finds Higher Test Scores Among Blacks With Vouchers

Black public school students who switched to private schools on scholarships similar to vouchers performed significantly higher on standardized math and reading tests than similar students who remained in public schools, a study found.

http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/082900vouchers-edu.html

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), August 29, 2000

Answers

Liberals don't want to hear this. The thing that interests me is "why"?

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), August 29, 2000.

Cpr: Finally a post that is a good read...

thanks

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), August 29, 2000.

Lars, I think I can answer that, the teachers' union. This entity is very much for the public school system, setting school policy, and ensuring (my term is forcing) the teachers to teach a certain way (their way). This is a very liberal entity and somehow lost their way to getting their mission accomplished, that is, teach and has become more interested in how students feel. Somehow they lost the connection with accomplishment making someone feel good and moved right through to let's just feel good about ourselves.

During the ceremony, my daughter's graduation speaker, the AP, talked about how it's ok to fail in life. I couldn't believe it. Instead of "strive for the best", it was "be happy with mediocre".

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), August 29, 2000.

To play Devil's advocate, it could also be that the students who took advantage of the vouchers had more supportive home environments for learning, and/or were the brighter students who would have done well in either location.

Maybe the system just selected the cream of the crop.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), August 29, 2000.

Perhaps it is because the students received the attention they need and deserve. Public schools are toooo overcrowded, buildings in decay, and NO dicipline allowed, how are they supposed to learn?

Ideally yes, all should go to learn and be obedient BEFORE they go into the class, however, this is not so w/most students.

Teachers are there to TEACH not babysit. I do believe students should be encouraged, not discouraged. Here in our city the concern is for more $$$$ and a strike is set for 9-1. If strike is not settled prior to that date, we have been told to keep our children at home.

My son attends an alternative school, since being placed there he is doing much better. Reason: class sizes are smaller and there is a clean neat building with CARING CONCERNED Educators.

Just my 2 cents FWIW.

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), August 29, 2000.

So private schools are better than public? Duuuuuuuuuh!!

-- (tell.me@something.new), August 29, 2000.

I suppose none of you anti-liberals or voucher fans are going to draw attention to this part of the article:

"The study ... found no significant overall gains among students in other ethic groups who moved to private schools from public schools.

Nor have you pointed out that there was no mention in the article of either the number of students in the study or any statistical measure by which the reader can judge whether the "6 percentile points" was statistically significant or not.

And of course, none of you have yet mentioned that "among those who helped pay for [the study] were several conservative research groups and voucher advocates, including the Thomas B. Fordham Foundation and the Milton and Rose D. Friedman Foundation."

All in all, this fails to impress me as being of any significance in showing that private schools are better (or worse) than public schools, or that voucher programs improve (or degrade) student performance.

You folks come back when you have some unbiased significant evidence -- okay?

-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), August 30, 2000.

I really don't care about studies. I don't need a study to know that my education was a much better than public.

The whole point is freedom of choice. If a better school is available, I should be able to attend and get the tax dollars I put into it. Vouchers is a bad word to the teachers' union. Why? because they won't be getting $ to fund their causes. Also competition ensures teachers do better. With the current system, there's no incentive for teachers to perform. They get paid no matter what. Their pay (at least in this state) is based on the number of courses they've taken, not if their students learn. Sad isn't it.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), August 31, 2000.

Hmmm... an interesting conundrum. While I'm all for students getting a good education, I think many conservatives view school voucers as simply another tool to undermine the wall of seperation between church and state, since many private schools are religious schools. I will not pay money for another person's religion, plain and simple.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingignthroughthejunglewithouta.net), August 31, 2000.

Catholic and Christian schools will be around for a long time. Liberals have tied the vouchers to religion when no connection exists. My neighbors send their kids to St Mary's and they aren't Catholic. It has nothing to do with religion, since they don't practice it. It has to do with choice and better alternatives. Vouchers would encourage more private schools opening up that are not tied to religion; it would encourage more freedom of choice. Religious based schools will be here with or without vouchers. Sorry I don't see the connection that the liberals are trying to make.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), August 31, 2000.

Maria:

I don't know where you live. I am sure things are different in different places. Here, we have no religous schools [we have one that handles students from families who don't want their children to get into college; you know the anti-evolution folks; they have about 14 students] because they can't compete with the public schools.

The public schools have problems, of course. But last year 20% of the graduates went to Ivys with support, 50% went to Class I Research Universities and 80% went to college. Pretty good record I would say. Why? We vote to give them the money they need and don't interfere with their operation [ie, teachers teach and don't spend the majority of their time filling out forms to justify the educational system].

Just a thought.

Best wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 31, 2000.

Gee! It sure is interesting to see what folks are up to over on Yourdon's board these days!

-- Wally & The Beav (jerry.mathers@the.beaver.com), August 31, 2000.