VC vs. Graded Paper Survey

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Years ago when paper was less expensive I used graded paper and usually kept about four grades around. Recently I tried some graded Seagull and was quite pleased with it. This is just a casual survey- do you use graded papers sometimes, always, or never? Why?

-- Conrad Hoffman (choffman@rpa.net), August 24, 2000

Answers

Always! For several reasons. Number one, I'm convinced that the limited spectral response of graded paper makes for a sharper (more in focus) image. All VC papers are sensitive to two different areas of the spectrum, one emulsion or component to bluer light, one to greener, the idea being that one component provides the high contrast and one the low. The problem is, that the blue component is also sensitive to near-ultra-violet light, which most enlarging lenses are not corrected for. The difference in image focus between the two components can be up to several milimeters, resulting in blurry images no matter how well you focus. For a more in-depth discussion of this, see Ctein's book "Post Exposure".

A second reason for choosing graded paper is the toning characteristics. Each combination of chloride/bromide tones a bit differently. One of the factors in my paper choice is how a paper tones in selenium. Since there are basically two emulsions in a VC paper, the toning can be unpredictable, different from contrast grade to contrast grade (depending on which component got the most exposure) and sometimes split, where parts of the prints tone one way and others differently. Also, I prefer a more complete color change than most and therefore choose papers that tone readily and change tone the most in selenium. Among these, only graded papers are my favorites. I use Seagull G extensively, also Ilford Gallerie, Zone VI Brilliant (which I suspect is the resurrection of Ilford Ilfobrom) and Kodak Elite. The Bergger papers look interesting also, but I haven't tried them yet.

Third reason: I've refined my exposure and development technique over the years so that I rarely use grade 1 and grade 4. I have one box of each in the refrigerator and one of each "in circulation", but print 95% of my work on grades 2 or 3. Most of my contrast manipulation is done by changing print developer dilution/combination. Besides,I don't mind having 4 or more boxes of paper around in a given size (many times I have more since I use different brands as well). Once you make the intitial outlay, you spend no more on paper and only use a bit more space.

The only advantage I can see to VC papers is the possibility to split- contrast print. This is certainly a reason why many good printers have chosen to go with VC. I selectively intensify parts of my negs to achieve somewhat the same effect when needed, but most of my prints require no such local manipulation of contrast. My choice to remain with graded papers is personal and, in part, subjective. I just like the "look" of the graded papers I use over the VC papers I have tried. Maybe someone's contribution to this thread will make me want to try a VC paper again, we'll see.

Regards, ;^D)

-- Doremus Scudder (ScudderLandreth@compuserve.com), August 25, 2000.


Hey Conrad, what do you mean by, 'years ago when paper was less expensive...?' You mean back when I was making $220.00 a month?

I do think you also should look at Eddie Ephraums book, GRADIENT LIGHT, for a pro VC paper discussion.

Cheers!

chris

-- Christian Harkness (chris.harkness@eudoramail.com), August 25, 2000.


I only use graded paper for lith printing, because I particularly like the tone of a specific make that happens to be graded.

Why: It gives me controls that are just not there with graded paper.

What about Doremus' arguments:

Doremus: Number one, I'm convinced that the limited spectral response of graded paper makes for a sharper (more in focus) image. (...) For a more in-depth discussion of this, see Ctein's book "Post Exposure".

Ctein showed that this can be a problem, but it need not. You can test it, and if it is not a problem, ...

Doremus: A second reason for choosing graded paper is the toning characteristics. Each combination of chloride/bromide tones a bit differently. One of the factors in my paper choice is how a paper tones in selenium. Since there are basically two emulsions in a VC paper, the toning can be unpredictable, ...

This used to be a big problem with older VCs. Today's VCs seem to be quite well-behaved in that respect. This also can be tested, and sometimes a split-tone effect can be very attractive. I use a different kind of split-tone effect for some of my landscape shots. I sometimes tone in selenium to give the dark foreground a slightly warmer tone, and then I tone in gold then to make the distance go a bit blue, thus enhancing the effect of air perspective. (I guess this would work with graded papers, too.)

Doremus: I've refined my exposure and development technique over the years ...

Think of the potential for further refinement if you did try VC.

Doremus: The only advantage I can see to VC papers is the possibility to split- contrast print. This is certainly a reason why many good printers have chosen to go with VC. I selectively intensify parts of my negs to achieve somewhat the same effect when needed, but most of my prints require no such local manipulation of contrast. My choice to remain with graded papers is personal and, in part, subjective. I just like the "look" of the graded papers I use over the VC papers I have tried. Maybe someone's contribution to this thread will make me want to try a VC paper again, we'll see.

One can't argue about taste, and no matter how many good reasons we state, our choice will always be a more or less subjective one.

I said I use VC paper for most of my prints, and I still have quite a few boxes around in my lab, because I also need the graded Maco (or Cachet in the US) paper for lith printing, and I sometimes use matte surfaces when I feel this looks better, and then every paper tones differently. The advantages of VC aside, how many more boxes would there be if I used graded paper?

-- Thomas Wollstein (thomas_wollstein@web.de), August 25, 2000.


I keep a 25 sheet pack of VC 8x around for testing "weird" negs for the best contrast... but other than that it's all graded. G2 usually but it depends on the paper and neg.

-- Trib (linhof6@hotmail.com), August 25, 2000.

Thanks all!!! You've clairified some ideas that were going around in my head, but hadn't really gelled into anything as coherent as what you've written. Since I don't resort to extreme filters, it seems perfectly practical to go with a couple boxes of graded. I'm familiar with the UV sensitivity/focus issue, but have never been able to convince myself that I was having a problem. OTOH, it's one of those stupid things that can be a distraction when that isn't where your focus should be (ha!). Right now I think I'll keep both around and use the graded unless the neg has more extreme needs. BTW, paper was cheaper before the Hunt bros. ran up the silver market and Kodak raised their prices to match. (OK it was a while ago...) I guess I've held a grudge because when silver prices came back down, film and paper never did. Not a penny.

-- Conrad Hoffman (choffman@rpa.net), August 25, 2000.


I use VC FB paper for my printing. Graded paper is too constricting for the images I print. I like to have a full range of contrasts on the same print and all you can hope for with graded paper is maybe half a grade contrast difference. Some people expose their negs for a small range of contrasts. Graded paper works fine for that type printing. I also use a modified split filter printing system which works for my type images. Some people like the look and other characteristics of graded paper. Most printers I've met use VC because of it's inherent versatility. It depends on the look you're after. But from the looks of the catalogs and stores such as B&H, Calumet, and others, the VC papers are what most printers use. James

-- james (james_mickelson@hotmail.com), August 26, 2000.

Just to chime in with what some others have said, we do nearly everything on VC paper, but always keep boxes of grade 5 and grade 1 paper on hand for those occasions when you need a bit more extreme contrast correction than VC filters and paper provide.

-- Michael Goldfarb (mgoldfar@mobius-inc.com), August 29, 2000.

ok, I've tried that split thingy and I can't tell one bit of difference and futhermore my eyes for the life of me cannot tell the difference between a contrast grade of 3.222397455 and 3.5! Do I have the eyes of a novice printer? I would however love to control contrast locally but Alan G's tutorial only adds a few thousand filter dodges and burns to the thousands I normally do.... help? I'm too lazy for too many more dodges and burns plus my enlarger isn't the most stable clunker. Have you simplified a pre-existing method? Could you outline your method? Does it require a registration system? Does it have D&B halos all over it? How in the hell do you keep track of all the times and grades and dodging tools? Do you have proof of your methods in the form of examples online? I know you can tell the difference but can other experienced black and white printers?

awww to hell with it... I've decided I like it simple instead.

-- Trib (linhof6@hotmail.com), August 29, 2000.


I use VC paper primarilly for it's versatility and the obvious economy.

-- Robert Orofino (rorofino@iopener.net), August 29, 2000.

Wait till you get to be my age Trib. You won't be able to see the halos or the contrast difference anyway. Been rode hard and put away wet. Lumberjack

-- james (james_mickelson@hotmail.com), August 29, 2000.


thanks gramps... you've identified my malady... not novice eyes but rather old fungus-y elements! Thanks jack! I guess I need to take one of your black and white printing for AARP'ers workshops? Y'all gots diopter'd grain focusers for us youngins doancha?

-- Trib (linhof6@hotmail.com), August 30, 2000.

VC vs Graded paper

Mr. Hoffman, In the early 60's there was no VC paper, (that I knew of), so I used graded paper. When VC paper came I spoke with the manager of my favorite camera store and he recommended the VC. Over the years I have found that for newspapers and magazines, this is a fine paper. However, if you intend to enter contests, do professional work or really want to display extremely fine prints: Go with the graded papers. The results are more than startling. The graded papers out-shine the VC. Hope this helps. David Huffman

-- H. David Huffman (craptalk@lvcm.com), September 25, 2000.

Here's something I posted recently on photo.net which may argue in favor of graded:

I doubt contact prints would be as detailed as your negative could be, were all factors in making the negative optimized, such as using a Schneider Hi End Back, modern lens at large aperture, etc. However, I have recently made some comparison contacts from a black and white 8x10 negative on several VC and graded papers. Purpose was to check sharpness of the papers while removing lateral chromatic abberation of an enlarging lens from the equation. Results: to unaided eyes, from normal viewing distance (10"), the graded papers are obviously much sharper. This was readily confirmed with a loupe. I printed on New Seagull G and Zone VI Brilliant Bromide II graded, as well as Kodak Polymax Fine Art and Ilford Multigrade IV Fiber variable contrast papers. The Polymax exhibits only slightly less sharpness than the graded papers, while Ilford's product is even blurrier. My test negative was a T-Max 400 resolution target image, made with a 450 mm Fuji C lens at f/22. Even graded papers cannot match the negative's detail, but, to echo Bob's conclusion, they may be good enough.

-- Sal Santamaura (bc_hill@qwestinternet.net), September 26, 2000.


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