Democrat is where it's at! : LUSENET : TB2K spinoff uncensored : One Thread

"If you want to live like a Republican, you better vote for the Democrats!"

Harry Truman said it, and Bill Clinton proved it!

Billy Boy is a frickin genius, and Hillary is quite the babe. Republicans, go ahead and call the Dems scum... I say we can use a few more terms of THIS kind of scum!!

Rock on Al Gore!!

-- (rollin@in.dough), August 15, 2000


Hillary is quite the babe Either you are attracted to women who tyr to look like men, or you are a lesbian. No wonder you support Clinton.

-- (laughin@your.naiveite), August 15, 2000.

isn't wonderland fun!!!

-- al-d. (, August 15, 2000.

"Rollin" may have a semi-point. It's true that the last 8 years have been prosperous for most. But this is in spite of Clinton/Democrat policies, not because of them.

There has been a Republican congress since 1994. Greenspan was a Bush appointee. Hillary's attempt to nationalize 1/7 of the economy (health) was defeated. Clinton was in personal damage control mode during most of his second term. The economy was driven by unimagined technology changes that no politician can take credit for.

IMO, the most successful economy is the one that is least messed-with by politicians.

-- Lars (, August 15, 2000.

I watched the convention. Hillary looked GREAT. Both she and Bill gave excellent speeches. Hillary has NEVER tried to LOOK like a man. What SOME men find offensive is that she's quite capable to do a job that they can't.

I disagree with your revisionism as well, Lars. [But then you knew I would.]

By Michael Dukakis, 8/15/2000

I'm probably the last person who should be offering political advice to Al Gore and Joe Lieberman. After all, if I knew anything about presidential politics, I'd be writing this in a very different capacity.

But despite the mistakes I made in 1988, I - and we - learned two very big lessons in that campaign. First, don't let attacks go unanswered for more than a minute. Second, don't be afraid to punch holes in your opponent's campaign if he is making claims or charges that are patently untrue.

George Bush and Dick Cheney seem to be building their campaign around one basic theme: They keep telling us that if we elect them, they will restore honor and character to the White House.

What Bill Clinton did with Monica Lewinsky was dumb, and it was wrong. But to those of us who have the slightest memory of what was going on in Washington under two Republican presidents from 1980 to 1992, the suggestion that a Republican administration will bring integrity back to the White House is positively laughable.

Item: More than 100 high-ranking officials in the Reagan administration left public office in disgrace or under indictment. In fact, that administration was a virtual rogues gallery of people for whom the public trust meant an opportunity to wheel and deal for their own or one of their cronies' interests.

Item: The Iran-Contra scandal was one of the most flagrant examples in American history of an administration that made a mockery of the rule of law. Both the president and vice president lied to the American people. They deliberately deceived Congress. They broke the law. They encouraged those working under them to break the law. And after President George Bush was defeated by Bill Clinton in 1992 and just before he left office, he pardoned every single person who had been indicted or convicted by the special prosecutor in the Iran- Contra case.

Item: George Bush as a candidate for the presidency in 1988 solemnly promised that he would never raise our taxes. In fact, as we all recall, he made that pledge in a particularly memorable way by asking us to read his lips.

Just a month after he won the 1988 election he and I met at the vice president's residence in Washington. It was clear during our conversation at that meeting that he had no intention of keeping his no-tax pledge beyond his first year in office. And, sure enough, he raised taxes in his second year in the presidency.

If this is what young George Bush and Dick Cheney mean by character and honor, it may well be time to change the definition of those words. But these two men have plenty of explaining to do about the way they are running their own campaign. And the way you run your campaign is probably the best indication we have of what kind of president and vice president you will be.

In fact, George W. Bush is opposed to the McCain-Feingold bill for campaign finance reform, has refused to accept the spending limits imposed on most candidates under current federal law, has raised unprecedented sums of money outside those limits, and is running a campaign that is awash in special interest money.

No wonder a prominent spokesman for the National Rifle Association said not too long ago that if Bush won, the NRA would have a office in the West Wing of the White House.

So my advice to Gore and Lieberman is this: Blow Bush and Cheney out of the water on the so-called character and honor issue, and then let's get back to the real issue in this campaign: making sure that the extraordinary progress we have made in this country over the past eight years is not destroyed by another Republican administration that can't manage the economy, drowns us in debt, and doesn't understand the meaning of the words character, honor, and integrity.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

E. J. Dionne Jr. has distilled my true feelings about President Clinton perfectly. LOS ANGELES  So how much will we miss Bill Clinton? The politician who welcomed himself into American history as the Man from Hope eight years ago says goodbye as the Man of Hopes Realized.

Republicans can't argue with the nation's achievements on his watch. The same people who said seven years ago that Clinton's economic plan would wreck the economy now fall back on saying that Clinton made no difference. Clinton loves to talk about this. There is no message he more wants to get across this week: Yes, I did make a difference.

Implausibly, Republicans vacillate between competing claims that the sweep of today's prosperity is (1) the result of Ronald Reagan's policies during the 1980s or (2) the work of the Republican Congress after 1994. Clinton, who, along with his party, suffered mightily for raising taxes right out of the box, is airbrushed out of the economic story.

Most of the country doesn't see things that way, as Clinton knew when he rose to tout his record and to push for four more years under Al Gore. It made you want to imagine a Clinton presidency in which he lets Monica Lewinsky just drop off the pizza and invites big donors to sleep at the Hay-Adams instead of the Lincoln bedroom.

Clinton's achievement can be measured not only by the exhilarating economic numbers but also by the opportunities his presidency has made possible for his successor. Think of how his actions have changed political fashions.

Where once it was popular to bash "welfare cheats," it is now required of leaders in both parties to be "compassionate" and talk about lifting up the poor. Remember when "compassion" was dismissed as a weak, wimpy, liberal virtue?

There was a time when any new spending proposal could be swatted away as a "budget busting" monstrosity that would "swell the deficit." But with the swell surplus, Clinton and Gore have the luxury of being attacked from the left for not spending enough and from the right for not supporting huge tax cuts. The attacks mean politicians no longer have deficits to kick around as an excuse for paralysis.

For 20 years after 1968, candidates sliced up the electorate with "wedge issues" and stoked resentments about crime and race. Clinton was far too complicit in the nation's now cooling love affair with the death penalty and with the slow erosion of protections for the accused.

But he was right that the crime issue was more than a code for race. Falling crime rates mean more safety, less fear and resentment. And when Republicans turn their convention into a "We Are the World" love fest while Pat Buchanan picks a black woman as his running mate, you know the era of Bull Connor is over. Don't sniff at this as empty symbolism. Symbols send messages about how we conceive the future.

All of which explains why Republicans keep coming back to sex and fundraising. Thanks to the record accumulated by the Man from Hope, they have little else to say. If a politician ever conscientiously applied the song "Let's Give Them Something to Talk About" to the task of helping the opposition, it's the man from Hot Springs.

The Democrats' choice of Los Angeles for this convention hardly buries the bad memories. "It's a sexy town," said Annette Bening, during the rare party here not devoted to fundraising, "and they're trying to get away from sex." Gore has to be wishing this were Cleveland or Detroit.

The result? Almost everybody will miss Bill Clinton except Al Gore. Democrats will miss his political instincts and his powers of persuasion. Republicans will lose their only topic of conversation other than tax cuts. And at the first sign of recession, everybody else will wonder whether the country is missing Clinton's greatest gift, which is good luck.

The shame of it is that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney were right at their convention about one thing: The past seven years were also a lost opportunity.

They should feel fortunate for that because a Clinton without the scandals might have cemented a new majority. He could have inspired a generation of service-minded young people to see politics with excitement rather than disdain. He'd be going out on all those cheers with no undercurrent of impatience and frustration. He wouldn't have to apologize or explain himself incessantly. He really could have been the Man from Hope.

-- Anita (, August 16, 2000.

The Democrats' choice of Los Angeles for this convention hardly buries the bad memories. "It's a sexy town," said Annette Bening, during the rare party here not devoted to fundraising, "and they're trying to get away from sex." Gore has to be wishing this were Cleveland or Detroit.

^^^^^anita: please explain the last sentence, being a Clevelander, I would like to know what that meant.


xoxo, sumer

-- consumer (, August 16, 2000.

If Hillary looks like a man then I must be a homo, cuz I'd like to do her. Those cute little cheeks you just wanna pinch, nice eyes, nice smile, brains, and best of all, that pleasingly plump pushin cushin of a rump. In fact, a threesome with her and Chelsea would be awesome. :-)

-- (, August 16, 2000.

Thanks for digging up the articles and posting. Now I am looking for the republican response to this. Honor and integrity from republicans? ROTFLMAO.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), August 16, 2000.

I've only been to Cleveland and Detroit once, Consumer, and I didn't spend TOO much time in either place partying outside of private parties or concerts that brought me there. However, I think this article sums up what was meant by that statement.

Republican and Democratic conventions ARE different

In a nutshell, the author states that the Democrates [in general] tend to be a less-disciplined, fun-loving group of folks who pick large cities known for fun in which to hold their conventions. In this way, they attract more celebrities, etc.

-- Anita (, August 16, 2000.


"Revisionism"? Seems to me that Clinton claiming any credit for current prosperity is the Revisionism.

Oh well. You know, I could accept Algor as President. I won't vote for him but I do think he would be an improvement over the Slickster. And to think they used to call Reagan "the teflon President". Wow!

Dukakis? Now there is a name from the past. I thought he was dead or in Cleveland. But his point about Bush-the-Elder flipping on "read my lips" is right-on. That in-your face waffle plus the Perot factor plus Clinton's sex appeal cost Bush the election in 1992. The irony in that year is that the big-name Dems like Gore and Gephardt were afraid to run against Bush due to his early high polling numbers after the Gulf War. There must be a lesson in there somewhere.

Cleveland? Sumer, from what I hear it is no longer the "mistake on the Lake". The Flats have gone from making steel to making trendy hang-outs. True? Not sure that is good but that is my impression.

-- Lars (, August 16, 2000.

Cleveland Does have it's perks. As for the 'flats' yes, there are many trendy 'nite clubs' there presently is a big Problem with that as well. We have had 2 20 yr old men drown from a combination of underage drinking and thus falling into the lake as the flats doesnt block the access to the lake except by small ropes.

But what I was more interested in was where does Cleveland 'fit' per se with the text that Anita referenced us?

As you can see I am not up on politics at all, just was wondering.

Anita: I tell you what, you should run for office, after that post, you 'almost' had me convinced. You made many good points. Thanks.

Still confused on 'who' to give my lil vote for.

xoxo, sumer

-- consumer (, August 16, 2000.

You're hardly alone in your indecisiveness, Consumer. Even folks who have been following the conventions on the major public networks aren't allowed to hear what the speakers actually say. They get to hear a talking-head interviewing someone while the speaker in on stage and then they get another talking-head to tell us what was said. You'd think they were covering a foreign convention where we all needed interpreters. CSPAN is the only channel I've found that actually lets me listen to what's being said without the "spin."

I would have preferred another candidate besides Gore, but I haven't found anything anywhere close to what I've found on Bush that would sway me to vote for Bush over Gore. In fact, living in Texas, I had to make the decision whether I'd prefer to keep Bush as my Governor or turn him loose on the country.

I haven't seen the bush campaign ads, but I've heard there's one that says that Texas under Bush is "most improved" in areas of education and pollution. This is a fine ad for Avis versus Hertz. "We try harder" isn't a bad line. Of course, once one sees the numbers on where Texas stands compared to the other 49 states, the ad is laughable. It equates to "you're flunking miserably, but I know you've improved more than anyone else in your class this semester."

-------------------------------------------------------------Excuse the poor formatting on this one, but I think you get the drift:

Texas Rankings Under Bush: Do you Want Some of This? AUSTIN, TEXAS -- A look at Texas under Bush: National Ranking Among 50 States The Education Governor of Texas Teacher salaries at beginning of 1st term 36 (1) Teacher salaries at beginning of 2nd term 38 (1) % Change in Average Salaries 1989-99 constant $ -1.1% (1) Teacher salaries plus benefits 50 (1) High school completion rate 48 (2) SAT scores - 1996 combined math & verbal: 995 44 (13) SAT scores - 1997 combined math & verbal: 995 45 (13) SAT scores - 1998 combined math & verbal: 995 44 (13) Bush Family Values in Texas Highest number of children living in poverty 2 (3) Highest number of children without health insurance 2 (3) Highest % of children without health insurance 1 (3) Highest % of poor working parents without insurance 1 (3) Highest % of population without health insurance 2 (3) Highest number of people stripped of Medicare benefits 1 (10) Highest teen birth rate 5 (4) Per capita funding for public health 48 (4) Delivery of social services 47 (4) Mothers receiving prenatal care 45 (9) Child support collections 45 (3) Number of executions 1 (11) Teen smoking - down nationally, flat in Texas (5) Teen drug use - down nationally, up 30% in Texas w/ Bush (5) Pollution in Texas Pollution released by manufacturing plants 1 (6) Pollution by industrial plants in violation of Clean Air Act 1 (6) Greenhouse gas emissions 1 (6) Quality of Life in Texas Spending for parks and recreation 48 (7) Spending for the arts 48 (7) Public libraries and branches 46 (8) Spending for the environment 49 (7) Best place to raise children 48 (9) Affordable Housing 48 (12) Home ownership 44 (2) Highest homes insurance rates in the nation 1 (11) Spending for police protection 47 (12)

Sources: (1) National Education Agency, Rankings & Estimates: Rankings of the States 1999 (2) U.S. Department of Education Office of Educational Research and Development (3) U.S. Bureau of Census, Current Populations Trends (4) U.S. Dept Health and Human Services, National Center for Health Statistics (5)1998 Texas School Survey of Substance Use Among Students: Grades 7-12, Texas Commission on Alcohol and Drug Abuse (6) U.S. EPA, Office of Pollution and Prevention (7) Texas Observer (8) Statistical Rankings by State (9) Children's Rights Council (10) Families USA (11) National Association of Insurance Commissioners (12) U.S. Bureau of Census, State Government Finances 1998 (13) College Examination Board

-- Anita (, August 16, 2000.

Anita, my hats off to you!!! I must admitt, I bought into the Morality in office issue. Kind of really makes you feel as if your choice is one of morals ie, will you 'sell your soul to the devil for Democrats'?

Having had this drilled into me as of late, I too began to think, well, that is True, but lately I realize more and more, I dont think I wanna Do the Bush Dance either. I am afraid that he will screw up the social security for elderly and in spite of everything he has shown that to me he is not competent enough to serve.

I wish we had a 'c' candidate a GOOD one, but alas, we dont.

The thought of Al Gore isnt really inticing but IF I must be honest I like the way the economy is now and I honestly dont know 'who' to give credit to, so I will give it to God and His blessings on America.

As for the Clinton's I believe Hillary is a liar and I watched her and the President and to me it was all bout them. Shame on them both as they are so selfish they dont wanna see Gore win, they wanna run Hillary at the expense of whoever may get in the way.

I am an observer, I watched her face, she doesnt appear to like Al, let alone try to help him. Sad but MHO.

Personally, I am GLAD to see the both of those self centered freaks gone, but YES the state of affairs is good. I'd like to see more comments about the military, as our Armed Forces are underpaid as it is and retirement sucks.

Anita, thanks again, for giving 'food for thought'


-- consumer (, August 16, 2000.

Today: August 16, 2000 at 11:03:08 PDT

ADL Objects to Lieberman Editorial


NEW YORK (AP) -- The Anti-Defamation League is crying foul over an editorial in The Amsterdam News that claims that Jews bought the selection of Sen. Joseph Lieberman as Vice President Al Gore's running mate.

"It is so crude. It is so ugly," ADL National Director Abraham Foxman said Wednesday. "You'd expect it from a rabble rouser in the streets but not from a publisher, a journalist."

In the editorial in the Aug. 10-16 edition, Wilbert Tatum, publisher emeritus of the black-owned newspaper, wrote that "Gore and his minions did it for the money."

Tatum wrote that "the reasoning in the Gore camp went out all over the world to Jews of means: You've got to show me the money. When you do, one of yours will be given the second spot on the ticket."

Foxman called it "the worst anti-Semitic rhetoric that I have read in a long time, unless I want to plug into a hate Web site."

Tatum and his daughter, Elinor Tatum, the newspaper's current publisher and editor in chief, did not return calls for comment Wednesday. In an interview with the Daily News, Tatum, whose wife is Jewish, brushed off the ADL's accusations.

"My wife is a Holocaust survivor," he said. "My daughter is Jewish. I am not, nor have I ever been, an anti-Semite."

-- (party@of.asses), August 16, 2000.

I'm with ya on that one, consumer. I recently took a call from where my mom gets her prescriptions. They're a mail outfit where she can get a 10% discount through her Blue Cross insurance, but even with that the bill is $781.42 every 3 months. I approved the expense [which was why they called me. I have the stuff charged to my Discover account.] Why doesn't medicare come with prescription coverage? Did somebody REALLY think folks could get old and need NO prescriptions? They wren't BS'ing at the Democratic Convention when they talked about the elderly making decisions regarding food or prescriptions. It's a reality.

For the other poster, Lieberman has about as much charisma as Al. I take that back. He has even less charisma. I figure he'll take a back seat to Al [much like Al did to Bill.] In fact, he's already said that Al will make the decisions. Al CAN have charisma, but he has to spend about 30 minutes shaking off the stiffness in his body before he speaks.

-- Anita (, August 16, 2000.

The Demo pretense has always been that they are the party of the working class. If this is still their claim, then why don't they hold their conventions in working class cities? Guess their claim now is that they are the party of the hip, cool, fun folks.


I'm have no doubt that your statistics on TX are true. But the statistics on TN are probably not much better. And the statistics on AR are probably even worse. So what does this prove?


You raise an important point about the military. The Soviet Union is gone but the world is still dangerous. From what I have heard, the morale in the Military is low (sort of like after Carter). And what is the state of our readiness? Has Cinton replaced all the cruise missiles that he used up in his wag-the-dog wars?

-- Lars (, August 16, 2000.


Gore hasn't been Governor of Tennessee. Bush IS Governor of Texas, and I'm hearing folks say, "Look at the greatness of Texas."

-- Anita (, August 16, 2000.


Texans were bragarts before Bush was a gleam in Pop's eye. Clinton WAS Gov of AR but you're right, we can't blame TN on Al; he never even lived there altho he was their Senator.

-- Lars (, August 16, 2000.


Thank you for acknowledging that Dubya isn't running against Bill. That's pretty rare in Republicans this election.

-- Anita (, August 16, 2000.

Lars said I raised a good point about military. Darn right I did, the moral was VERY low when hubby and I left at the mid of 95, pay was low, too many cruises, as there werent enough ships to rotate, hence hubby did loner cruises, I am NOT complaining, I did FINE while he was away.

But, I didnt have little ones who 'needed' their dad either. And I was used to being alone, the other wives w/small ones had it very hard. Think of this, military personell NEEDING food-stamps, what is wrong with the picture? Risking their lives, but having to apply for aid, SAD INDEED.

Lars, I wonder IF he did ever replace missles? Surely we jest.?

xoxo, sumer

-- consumer (, August 18, 2000.


I hope that I jest but I never hear Clinton or anyone complaining about the expense of readiness which makes me suspect that corners are being cut. Where did your husband serve?

-- Lars (, August 18, 2000.


US Navy, Norfolk Va.


-- consumer (, August 21, 2000.

Democrat How to be a good Democrat...

1. You have to believe the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of federal funding. 2. You have to believe that the same teacher who can't teach 4th graders how to read is somehow qualified to teach those same kids about sex. 3. You have to believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding Americans are more of a threat, than U.S. nuclear weapons technology, in the hands of Chinese communists. 4. You have to believe that there was no art before Federal funding. 5. You have to believe that global temperatures are less affected by cyclical, documented changes in the earth's climate, and more affected by yuppies driving SUVs. 6. You have to believe that gender roles are artificial but being homosexual is natural. 7. You have to be against capital punishment but support abortion on demand. 8. You have to believe that businesses create oppression and governments create prosperity. 9. You have to believe that hunters don't care about nature, but loony activists who've never been outside of Seattle do. 10. You have to believe that self-esteem is more important than actually doing something to earn it. 11. You have to believe the military, not corrupt politicians, start wars. 12. You have to believe the NRA is bad, because it supports certain parts of the Constitution, while the ACLU is good, because it supports certain parts of the Constitution. 13. You have to believe that taxes are too low, but ATM fees are too high. 14. You have to believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinmen are more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson, General Robert E. Lee or Thomas Edison. 15. You have to believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial quotas and set-asides aren't. 16. You have to believe Hillary Clinton is really a lady. 17. You have to believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried, is because the right people haven't been in charge. 18. You have to believe conservatives telling the truth belong in jail, but a liar and sex offender belongs in the White House. 19. You have to believe that homosexual parades displaying drag, transvestites and bestiality should be constitutionally protected and manger scenes at Christmas should be illegal. 20. You have to believe that illegal Democratic party funding by the Chinese is somehow in the best interest of the United States.

-- good Democrat (this is@good.list), September 02, 2000.

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