I just went through a few questions when i came across someone who said that "true R.E.M fans" don't think "losing my religion" is their best song and only casual R.E.M fans do! HOLD ON! First of all, what makes a true fan. I have only two albums because thats all i can afofrd at the moment! I come to this site AT LEAST once a week so what does this make me? A true fan or casual fan? Personally i don't think there is either, you like REM or not. "losing my religion is my faourite" song so this makes me a casual fan. People like that won't do any favours for R.E.M.There you go, i've had my say. By the way, sorry to all those "true fans" out there, i realise that your not all like this person! Sorry.

-- anon (the_sas_man@btinternet.com), August 13, 2000

Answers

I dont know what makes a true fan, ive never thought about it. I consider myself a fan, rem are my favourite band but i dont know if i qualify as a "true fan". I still need to get 2 albums and ive never seen them live. What does that make me? I think that person means that a lot of people like the song "Losing My Religon" cause its such an international hit. And a lot of people know that song but may not know any other rem stuff. So many people may claim to be fans of rem, but the only song they know and like is "Losing My Religon". Wjat does that make them? I have many friends that like one or two rem songs but dont consider themselves fans.

-- Suzanne (clanlennie@zoom.co.uk), August 13, 2000.

I think that weather or not a person likes a song should not have any basis on how big of a fan they are of the band who sings it. I know people who have every R.E.M album and Losing My Religion is still their favorite song. It's a great song that has great lyrics that have affected a lot of people, "casual fans" or not.

-- Jen (droshannon@hotmail.com), August 13, 2000.

Righty. Since I stuck my neck out, I think it was only a matter of time before I got my head kicked off. I'm sure the person to whom you refer is me. If it is, I'd better define my terms. It is often the case with any band that they release an album to public acclaim, everyone buys it to jump on the bandwagon and forgets about them the next week. These, ladies and gentlemen, are the casual fans. I must admit, way back in '93, I bought Automatic. I think most people did because, just like me, they never heard of the band and wanted a sample of what they did. But from that, I went on to read stuff and buy older albums. I can see where you may be misunderstood, but the amount of albums you own has nothing to do with it. You visit this site and this forum, so therefore you are a fan (I never said ture fan - I bloody well hate that phrase. If I had to use anything, it would probably be loyal, but even that smacks a bit.) The Casual fans I was talking about are the people who bought Automatic and kind of know that the band did some other albums too.

I apologise unreservedly now if I've offended anyone in my pomposity. That was never my intention.

-- Jon Kinsey (eeg@btinternet.com), August 13, 2000.

Well yes your right it was you!your apology is accepted but losing my religion is my favourite song but as someone said does that make me a fan or what? Im a fan and i too don't like the expression casual or true fan. I suppose you can have hardcore fan and just fan, but not casual fan or true fan! i like to put myself inbetween that.

-- anon (the_sas_man@btinternet.com), August 13, 2000.

well this is gonna soud rude but it has to be said....

"losing my religion is my faourite" song" "I have only two albums"

good for u there, but i think the point made was that people who have listened to ALL 11/12 albums would know better, maybe i could question you after you have accomplished that? I mean how can you make a judgement on your favourite r.e.m song when you've only listened to say about 20-24 songs?

And at the moment a person who has 2 records only (in the process of gettin more) is still a casual fan, u can know as much as you want about the band go on as many sites as you want, but if you ain't got the records to back you up then i'm afraid in my mind still a casual fan! NOt to say i have anything against you remember casual fan still has the word fan in it! And i'm sure uu'll have all the records soon enough

-- Amit ($$$TRIS$$$) (amitb84@hotmail.com), August 13, 2000.

Amit Baby, That doesn't sound rude at all to me, And my favorite song is Be Mine too, That song really brightens up my day and smile, I bet I can sing that song to some boy friends of mine. I'm friends with over 200 Boys my age and older and younger and well I would that song to my Boyfriends too."

-- Stephanie (stephp@hotpop.com), August 13, 2000.

If you like REM a bit, youre a casual fan...if you love them, youre a true fan. End of story.

-- ronan hunt (ronanhunt@hotmail.com), August 15, 2000.

i've loved REM for... let me seeeeee.... around two years, and i have... let me seeeeeee.... eight albums and two singles, but i still don't think there's any "true" fans. Some may like REM more than others, but would anyone crawl on their naked belly across broken glass and hot coals for them (uh-oh, maybe i don't wanna know the answer to that one)? LMR happens to be one of my favourites, and it's not because this (and everybody hurts) are probably the most famous of REMs songs. I just like it, and if that makes me a "casual fan", then, hey, i'll be a casual fan. But the fact is i still love all of REMs other stuff too. PHEW! think i need a drink after that long'n! &=^)

-- jen (not@tellingyou.com), August 15, 2000.

Well i wrote this question and it seems we have more questions than answers here!IM ENGLISH AND I LOOKED AT THE ENGLISH DICTIONARY. WE CREATED THE LANGUAGE SO DONT DISPUTE THIS MEANING PLEASE! CASUAL:CARELESS OR WITHOUT INTEREST! Well we can scrap the careless part cos that has nothing to do with the question in hand but without interest! NO WAY. I worship REM. someone said that if u have more albums then you are a better judge of music! TRUE, but surely if LMR is my favourite song of all time then whatever i hear wont change that. So it makes you more of a fan if you have more albums? Thats very wrong. Doesnt matter. i quoted the word casual from the dictionary to prove to you people what casual really means, now apparently im a casual fan, meaning i listen to REM without interest! WRONG. I think from now on we should all agree to stop using the phrase CASUAL, TRUE or LOYAL. As one person wrote, u either love REM or not, doesnt matter if u have the money to buy all albums. I looked up fan too and it says how a fan is "SOMEONE WHO IS VERY ENTHUSIASTIC OR TAKES GREAT INTEREST IN SOMETHING OR SOMEONE" Now this is true! So calling me or anyone else a casual fan is a contradiction in terms! WOW I SHOULD BE A LAWYER!

-- anon (the_sas_man@btinternet.com), August 15, 2000.

yeah, and I'm gonna be, but I bloody wish I hadn't brought this whole thing up now. It is simply a question of semantics. I was misunderstood and now it is all blown out of all proportion. Just one small point though. I've debated at various levels (County, National, International) and the first thing you are taught is using a dictionary definition isn't the whole story. Oh, and we may have invented the language, but I can tell you from experience that most countries are able to use it better than any Brit. That's my two pennies worth.....

-- Jon Kinsey (eeg@btinternet.com), August 15, 2000.

"CASUAL:CARELESS OR WITHOUT INTEREST" ---anon

Thats not what casual means, unless your looking at a dictionary for 4 year olds, or maybe you just read what u wanted to into the meaning! In my dictionary it also mentions casual - "temporany , not permenanet" and that is what i mean when i say a CASUAL listener, of course your interested in the music why else would you buy the albums you have them, because your not interested, huh? What you have to to understand mr anon is that say one was to meet two people on the street... 1. has 12 r.e.m albums 2. has 2 albums

u were then to question who is the bigger fan, and who is the casual one, what would u say? "their both eactly the same, on the scale of a fan" hell no! You would say that person 1 is a bigger fan

"So it makes you more of a fan if you have more albums? Thats very wrong." --anon

HOw is thatt wrong? R.E.M make music basically if u don't own the records and so one else does than ofcourse their more of a fan, why? cos the person who has more, has heard more!

-- Amit ($$$TRIS$$$) (amitb84@hotmail.com), August 15, 2000.

I came upon REM later than some,like most Automatic was the first album i heard,contrary to most,nightswimming is my fave on it.i've about 8 or 9 cds and eps and they are all so different,and i have faves on all.Yes,losing my religion is an excellent track with a great vid,but its contributory(if there is such a word) not solitary.I consider my self more of a fanatic than a 'true fan'and enjoy all aspects of the music of REM.Don't be narrow!

-- Bernie (bandsmc@hotmail.com), August 16, 2000.

That last e-mail spoke sense! answering the question to amit. when i said "just because you have more R.E.M albums makes you more of a fan. that is very wrong" well i think u misunderstood what i was trying to get across. I thought it was discrimination against someone, because someone is poorer and cant afford all the albums makes them less of a fan! of course not, that was what i was tryig to say. I agree with you in saying that you may be better judge of music but it doesn't make you more of a fan. If a boy beats up 5 other boys, does it make him more of a fan? no it doesn't! If a girl wears the most make up does it make them the most prettiest? of course not! and just because someone has more albums does it make them more of a fan? no it doesnt. that was what i was trying to get across. as one famous advert says, less is officially more! and you said that my definition of casual was wrong and that i was using a dictionary for 4 year olds! PERHAPS YOU SHOULD BACK UP YOUR THEORY INSTEAD OF MAKING SUCH PATHETIC COMMENTS! FOR YOUR INFORMATION IM TAKING MY g.c.s.e ENGLISH EXAM SOON AND THAT DICTIONARY WAS WRITTEN BY THE EXAM BOARD!!! Still, what im really trying to say is that im not a casual fan, doesnt matter what or how many albums i own. PLEASE can we scrap the words true and casual. What the last person wrote i couldn't of said better myself! Your either a fanatic or not! well i see all of us as fanatics.I wouldn't be here writing this now otherwise! You can be full of facts on R.E.M and have all the albums, but does it really make you a "better fan"? im as enthusiastic about R.E.M as the next person, so can we all drop this thing now! Obviously it was a very bad question to ask and i apolo9gise for that!. SORRY. peace!

-- craig (the_sas_man@btinternet.com), August 16, 2000.

lets not get into a war of words here people! whatever casual means, it has nothing to do with REM... ie. chill out! &=^)

-- jen (not@tellingyou.com), August 16, 2000.

hmmmmmmmmmm don't wanna mess with the true fans now do we. watch out duck someones gotta gun pow! kidding:P

-- Lisa (lgrinavic@olg.com), August 16, 2000.

I do owe it to LMR, cause thats the song that got me interested in REM.

-- Suzanne (clanlennie@zoom.co.uk), August 17, 2000.

Didnt Sir Stipe once say that "to define is to limit" ??? u mite only have 1 single,or u mite b willing to sacrafice ur life to the band... (im in the 2nd group!!),a fan is some one who hears a song and likes it and thinks the band are good.....end of!!

-- ms.Stipe (unit@eircom.ie), August 17, 2000.

I consider myself a fanatic of REM i have all their studio albums and Dead Letter Office Losing My Religion is my favourite song that got me into REM, i do not listen to anything else really i always consider REM 's songs better than other bands music, so i am a true fan now.

-- lee thomas mainwaring (leerem1@yahoo.com), August 17, 2000.

Yup, to define is to limit so lets broaden our scope and try not to put things in boxes. Everyones definitions and views are different and thats what makes us the peeps we are.how each of us came to love the music of REM is also different, so lets respect and enjoy.

-- Bernie (bandsmc@hotmail.com), August 17, 2000.

thanx for backing me up Bernie!!!

-- ms.Stipe (unit@eircom.ie), August 18, 2000.

I'm a fan.

-- (tigermeli@hotmail.com), August 18, 2000.

Wo...quite a lot of words there, i can't be bothered to read them all, but i'm thinking casual or not, who cares? How much you like rem is a personal thing, i don't think its really possible to label people as to how many albums they have. As stipe once said 'labels are for food'. i guess knowing that makes me a true fan...he...he (and i have all the albums)...

-- mark (MarkStephenBell@hotmail.com), August 21, 2000.

Just agreeing with sense talked ms.stipe, after all its not how or why you enjoy,but that you DO enjoy that matters. And i haven't got all the albums ,just heard many versions and it all counts to me.

-- Bernie (bandsmc@hotmail.com), August 21, 2000.

In the end, does it matter? Is it important?

I've been a fan of R.E.M. for probably longer than some of you have been alive - almost 17 years now. I knew about them earlier, but I never checked them out for a year or so before that.

The point is, and I always stress this to others, that it doesn't really matter in the end how long you've been a fan of R.E.M. It only matters that you are a fan now. If anyone else tells you differently, then they're probably still caught up in the "glory days" before 1991, when most people hadn't heard of the band. You don't need anyone elses bitterness to encroach on your own life, so just say "Yeah yeah" and leave them to it.

-- Fretless108 (cameron@grumpyfish.com), August 21, 2000.

thanx 4 agreeing with me,bernie!!!!

-- ms.Stipe (unit@indigo.ie), August 21, 2000.

Yeah.I honestly never got that whole...REALLY REALLY TRUE FAN crap.So people write music and people enjoy it. ok so i may have only been a twinkle in my mothers eye when murmur was released but so fucking what! Nothing wrong with listening to old albums, the way i see it, its kinda like looking at old photographs, and why do we do that? because we want to remember. Ive never meet REM,and i probably never will.Does that make me any less of a fan?????(i think not)

-- Neassa Doherty (binkythedoormat@ireland.com), August 25, 2000.

hi neassa d.....i agree with u! i see ur irish..ME TOO!! where abouts r u from?let me know!

-- ms.Stipe (unit@indigo.ie), August 25, 2000.

*sigh, so many wise words... where's me hanky?????

-- jen (not@tellingyou.com), August 26, 2000.

Im very interested in the idea of REM recording in Ireland right now.Im also interested in that new M.Stipe photograph book.For Empty.Its got a nude ones in it of Michael...!Where can i get it????

-- Neassa Doherty (binkythedoormat@ireland.com), August 26, 2000.