I worked late last night arriving home about 8:30 PM. My 13 year old daughter, 'K', my 18 year old daughter, 'C', and her 18 year old boyfriend, 'R', were here.

They were in some mood. They are great kids. They had cleaned the whole house. 'C' and 'R' had gone out to do the grocery shopping [first time] for me. Their spirits were high and they were proud. They are givers.

What clowns they were being. You know the kind of clowning teen-agers do. My house was full of laughter last night. It truly was heartwarming. Teen-agers are often so serious. With laughter like that from the young there comes a sense that you are really succeeding in life.

While eating dinner it was hard to swallow. They just kept it up. One after the other they would come out with the funniest things. Then they started on 'letting mom eat' so that she could get to the computer.

I told them about the pictures that were posted in the LV thread. They asked me if there was a picture for me. I said yes and described it. Of course this description set off another round of comedy.

When we finished eating I invited them to the computer with me to see the pictures. I was saying to them, while we were waiting for the connection to be made, what a great group of people were here and how I always look forward to seeing what new topics were being discussed.

I was sitting in the chair and they were standing behind me. I didn't stop at the question page but went directly to new answers. Once there I said 'let's see what they are talking about tonight'. I started reading OUT LOUD the first topic in new answers:

"Is Andy Ray a smelly ... " and I stopped after the word smelly. My voice had laughter in it when I started reading. The laughter ended at the word smelly, because I realized the last word was nigger. The kids became VERY QUIET. 'R' walked away and went into the bathroom upstairs. I turned and looked at my daughters faces. They were shocked. Laughter and innocence were wiped from their faces. Confusion and sad compassion replaced them.

'R's' mother is white. His father is black.

My house was emptied of laughter last night.

I hate the poster who posted that. That poster disgusts me. I want that poster to know that they are responsible for sucking happiness right out of my children (R included) last night and I want that poster to know that they didn't deserve that. You are one sick puppy.

-- Debra (Thisis@it.com), August 09, 2000

Answers

Thanks, Debra, for posting this. There is no kidding around with rascism. There is truth in all jest-that is what I believe, and the incredible ignorance shown by this poster is disgusting.

This kind of hatred is a reflection of a society that, for all of its "advances" has not come very far. My wife and I were talking last night about how much women are still hated and chastised-One only need to pay attention to popular culture(movies, radio, tv) to see that misogeny is alive and well-of course, so is rascism.

Unfortunately, this asshole who is posting this stuff things they are right-thinks it is cute-and nothing we write in this thread will change or stop them.

I guess this is one of the things we have to allow on an uncensored forum. Rascist speech is still protected speech as long as there is no call to violence.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), August 09, 2000.

The less we contribute to threads with racist titles, the sooner they will drop off the radar net.

-- Oxy (Oxsys@aol.com), August 09, 2000.

What you (and the children) need to understand, however, is that the poster was a troll. As a troll, their purpose is to get attention, to "make a big splash" any way they can. The way they do this is by posting what they feel would be the most offensive comments they can come up with, the more offensive the better.

It is actually quite likely that the poster isn't racist at all. Most of the time, trolls post in order to tarnish the image of either a particular poster or an entire forum. They do this with whatever comments they have at hand, whether or not they actually believe them.

It's unfortunate that your children saw these comments and became upset. However, you should understand that this was the troll's intention. And in this case, the troll succeeded.

It should be clear that the troll doesn't speak for the forum in general. However an Uncensored forum will always create the opportunity for someone to make offensive comments. Rather than allowing them to hurt, we need to recognize that they exist to draw our attention away from the rest of the people here. If we don't allow them to do that, if we skip over the threads and move on as Oxy suggests, we stand a better chance of keeping our houses and our children from being emptied of laughter.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), August 09, 2000.

I agree. The postings as of late have been out and out disgusting. I'm hoping if we ignore them they will go away.

M (sighing on the inside)

-- Not now, not like this (AgentSmith0110@aol.com), August 09, 2000.

i guess 'for some-being-un couth-filthy-mouthed is being-cool. it's called--trash-brain!!

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), August 09, 2000.

Wow, sorry about what happened Debra. What "hmm" says is true; perhaps if they read this thread here, they will see what "hmm" is trying to explain.

I'm with Oxy on this one -- don't contribute to the threads and they will drop out of sight.

Morons are always going to be morons; unfortunately, they're usually the loudest among the group.

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), August 09, 2000.

I guess this is one of the things we have to allow on an uncensored forum.

Have to?? Perhaps, but as in all things, there are limits. Racism and pornography go beyound mine. If I don't like it, I can choose not to visit and post myself.

I choose not to.

I believe in freedom of speach, I also believe in basic social standards. In a civilized society those standards are upheald. If I do not like the the behavior of certain people in a group I can leave.

In this case, I choose to leave. I will not continue to insult my own intellegence by association with people who use this sort of behavior. I prefer the company of those who uphold a decent standard, over the "freedom" of idiots.

I believe you are judged by the compay you keep. I prefer not to be in these cases.

So I will leave. That is the freedom of choice I choose to make.

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), August 09, 2000.

My fiancee is black, and although both of us hate that word, we would never prevent anyone from using it. When we hear someone using that word, we know that we're dealing with someone who's ignorant and petty.

I'm glad you didn't show them the LV thread, since it has some pretty hard core stuff stuff posted to it.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), August 09, 2000.

In this case, I choose to leave. I will not continue to insult my own intellegence by association with people who use this sort of behavior. I prefer the company of those who uphold a decent standard, over the "freedom" of idiots.

The problem is, there will always be trolls of this type wherever you go, if you create a truly Uncensored environment. You only "associate" yourself with these people if you acknowledge that they have power over you by their obvious attempts at distraction.

The only way to avoid the occasional troll is to create an environment that more closely monitors content. If you feel you would be more comfortable in such an environment, then best wishes in finding one. However, you may discover that such an environment has its own set of problems.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), August 09, 2000.

Debra, Ive enjoyed your posts in the past but I must take exception to this complaint. First, you have been on this forum long enough to know what is likely to be posted at any given time. When you show this site to friends or relatives at random, you are in essence saying to them: This is where I spend some time and I enjoy visiting here. If you didnt prep these folks then what did you expect? Is the word Nigger any more offensive than the homosexual pornography that was posted on the LV thread? Or the ranting of the numerous Hawks screaming obscenities and calling cin and others cunts? Myself, I would not let ANY of my friends or relatives see what goes on here without a detailed disclaimer. You want these folks to think you subscribe to the moronic babbling of idiots like al-d, contrived or not?

In the future, treat this place like a good book with some raunchy chapters and let the reader beware.

-- Ra (tion@l.1), August 09, 2000.

Cherri,

No, please don't go. I always read your posts and always find them interesting. If people start to leave (as many are)there won't be anyone left except the disgusting. I've become use to coming here every morning to see what's going on--from this groups point of view. We can not let them win.

Mar. (who's hoping these idiots go back to school and SOON!!!!!!!)

-- Not now, not like this (AgentSmith0110@aol.com), August 09, 2000.

Debra,

I'm so sorry about what happened to you and your kids. You know, as much as I love this place as a whole (I hate some of the things that happen here as well), I won't even let my kids in the same ROOM with me when I'm lurking or posting here. I mean, you never quite know what to expect.

You seem like a great mom, though, and I assume you'll talk with them (if you haven't already) and give them your evaluation as to what happened, try to get their feedback, etc. as well as share some of the good advice posted here.

I'm sorry if this seemed a bit preachy, Debra; I can see you're highly intelligent and probably knew the right things to do; so I'm almost certain it was just a slip-up that emerged from all the elation of the moment.

Cherri,

PLEASE don't leave; I value your opinions highly and have a massive amount of respect for you. And you've got a great sense of humor. E-mail me if you can so's I can talk your ear off until you're so exhausted you'll decide to stay.

-- eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), August 09, 2000.

Although in 'most' cases it is true as Cherri said "you are known by the company you keep' I take issue with that re: internet boards.

We can certainly put on that saying 'if' we choose to resort to hanging out on those threads, ie..feeding of the sick mind/minds.

I have been in lurk mode alot, have at times posted when a very nasty comment was made about me (although not always have i handled those w/such class), most recently I handled the comment re: watch out for consumer, she may have aids!!while referencing me to be a drunk and drug addict. A 'soft answer turns away anger' is the conclusion that worked in that case.

If "I" can endure, which I have, with support from those here who are very good people, then, therefore, I am known by the company I keep. Anita, aunt bee, FS, capn, Bingo oxy the list is ENDLESS. There ARE MANY good people here.

To each his/her own, but I may offer what many have suggested, dont feed the trolls, and keep on pressing on.

I believe our TROLL/Trolls will be gone soon. I do NOT believe they are school children either.

Whatever you choose Cheri, good luck.

xoxo, sumer

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), August 09, 2000.

Debra:

I'm so sorry. I agree with Hmmm and Ra, however. A few posters will do ANYTHING to elicit a reaction on ANY forum. TBI had those folks, and Debunkers had Charlie. This knowledge of the history of the fora was one reason why I disagreed with whoever stated that "You must be supporting these statements if you don't openly disavow these statements." SILENCE says quite a bit.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), August 09, 2000.

Debra, sad story. So sorry to hear that you had to learn that lesson the hard way.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), August 09, 2000.

Cherri,

If you do take a breather, I hope you'll return when the wheel has turned a bit. In any event, I'm glad that you stayed on for as long as you have. It's a different board than it was a year ago, it will morph again before long.

-- flora (***@__._), August 09, 2000.

'R's' mother is white. His father is black.

So someone used the N word. Big f***ing deal! 'R' needs to get over it. By letting it ruin your evening you let racism win. By being shocked in front of 'R' you confirm to him that you so uncomfortable with other races that you can't get past a tiny comment by an anonymous person.

I am lily white and I grew up attending a school that was 40% black and 25% Korean. I joked with friends and called them racist names (not out of hate, of course), and they called me Cracker.

People who blow tiny incidents out of proportion are by far racism's biggest problem.

-- we're different (wecant@always.getalong), August 10, 2000.

Debra, while you have my heart felt sympathy, I think you know that the Internet is a wild and wooly place and anything is possible. Beware before logging on and showing friends or family anything.

And Cherri, as far as being judged by the company we keep, I don't totally buy that. An old lady in town who was shunned by the establishment when I was a young woman was one of the most intelligent, interesting people I've ever known. I was criticized for being friends with her, and even recently when I told her daughter-in-law how much I always liked her, I could tell she was embarrassed that I had even brought up the subject. This does not mean I condone the porn, and monster text that appeared on this board. And that is best ignored. If they can't get a rise out of you, then it isn't any fun.

consumer, I have not always agreed with you, but I never liked the personal slurs you endured--especially the cheap shots about aids and drinking. I've been on the receiving end many times myself because I don't always use the Miss Manners style of disagreeing or protesting--in those cases I try and remember the best advice I ever had, "Don't let the bastards get you down."

Cherri, Debra, don't let the jerks run you off, but peep first to see if the jackals have taken over the forum before you show it to friends. hmmmmm is right, these characters don't speak for the whole forum.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), August 10, 2000.

Deb,

After reading many,many of your posts over a period of time I don't think anyone can take the laughter or love out of your house,maybe momentarily stifle it but never remove it.What would be troublesome though,is if such posts brought more laughter into your house,this is not the case but does make the point that you have done well.

Cheri,

Ya can't throw the baby out with the bath water,we all know theres an asshole in every crowd.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), August 10, 2000.