http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002IBl Your really have to read the thread to "get into it" but 1/2 way down you get:

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.....As promised, and I apologize that it has taken me so long to shake free, I really wanted to reply last evening. I apologize as well if this becomes a lengthy response, but this is the deepest of subjects.

Robert...

.....I am fairly certain that your heart is in the right place, I commend your courage in posting a message of this nature. If you have any questions after reading below, please feel free.

tt...

.....Its nice to see youve begun using a capital G when writing the term God. I did admonish you in regards to that some time ago, but dont know if you saw it. I hope your question will be answered below as well.

BigDog...

.....Hello, again. I always enjoy your posts on this topic, and wish I had gotten in on the thread with eve before it got so long. You express concern about mans ability to date the actual overtaking by judgement of America, you are quite correct, but we are able to discern the times and the seasons, (and weve been under judgement for quite some time now). As far as the dream issue is concerned, you were correct as well, but Blue Hawk nailed it when he said that dreams are solely for the dreamer to interpret.

Dancr...

.....Hello to you as well; I hope youre still interested in this thread, as Ive included something below, that may very well interest you, regarding that which Ive seen you concern about in the past, and again on this thread. I would be very interested in your comments, as this is truly what the Scripture says to that issue.

Which brings me once again to S. David Bays...

.....How are you, sir? Most of the questions should be covered in this response, although I doubt that youll find that it aligns with your doctrine, not to say that it fails to align with Scripture.

.....As I opened the concordance last night to prepare a list of passages, I started down the list of the word face as I knew this would lead me to where the Scripture says I have hidden, turned away, etc. my face. I also turned to the words withdrawn and withdrew for mention of the withdrawn hand of God. What I realized when I did is that the Scripture is so replete with references to this effect that Im amazed that I found myself responding to such a challenge, as I dont see how they could be missed. Do a word study of those words, and Im sure youll find plenty of examples. 1 Corinthians 10 tells us these thinks are ensamples for our edification, that we may learn. I dont typically throw verses around like the Jack Van Impes of the world, lest I be tagged as a Scripture lawyer as well. The man can throw out verse after verse, all day long; but it does no good if he has none understanding. In fact, sdb, you gave an example yourself when you quoted John 14:19-21... The world will see me no more. Are we not the world?

.....The term prophet is the word 5030 in the Hebrew, (from Strongs Exhaustive Concordance), derived from 5012. While there is mention of predictions, the context I understand a modernday prophet to be predicting from, is as BB says above, strictly from The Book.

.....sdb, the quotes that you used are all speaking to that former rain that BB addresses above, there are those youve spoken of being called, but many are called and few are chosen. This also ties in to Servants remark of free will, which not all have. Romans 8 and Ephesians 1 speak of predestination. Did Saul have free will after he was throw to his face and told to see Annaniahs and to discover that which he would suffer for My Names sake? Obviously not. There is a latter rain coming, as BB so posted, however, we have yet to achieve that point in prophecy. This is when the old men will dream dreams and the young men will see visions.

.....To deal with the death sentence for false prophets issue, this is an historical reference, but not valid for today in the sense that we are to do such things, as we were made to question by Roberts lengthy first response to his own thread. The parable of the tares tells us that it will not be by our hand that the tares shall be rooted up, but by His. We are also admonished to take extreme care in all dealings with man, (again, ish, as in mankind), as we may be entertaining angels unawares and will know not when we are in their presence. I would say that that this pretty well puts the issue of actions harming another to rest. Let us use the golden rule instead; Ive found that it has served me very well in my life. As an aside to Robert, I really dont believe that Peter, Petra was quite foolish enough do presume to prophesy unto Christ Himself, do you?

.....sdb, on a personal note, a while back you had posted a response to something I had said, and before I could even reply, you reposted an apology for your condescending tone; yet I somewhat detect that same tone in this post. Might I remind you, sir; that I do have you at a distinct disadvantage. Ive been to cuttingedge and seen first- hand that which you teach. If I recall, you have a section that deals with the rapture doctrine. Are you aware of where this abominable teaching originated? Do you not know that it was derived from the ramblings of a mentally unstable woman on her deathbed, and at the time she told those around her that it was an evil vision? There is a book to document these facts called The Incredible Coverup by one David MacPherson. It can be found if you are of the mind. And in reference to this teaching the same chapter comes to mind... Ezekiel 13 speaks directly to todays prophets. as it brings the context into focus in verse 5, as being to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord. God is NOT happy with the modernday prophets of Israel who prophesy from their own spirit and have seen nothing! Read it for yourself, I assure you it is there. Here is where God deals with this so-called rapture. In verse 20 where pillows are sown to the armholes, (Hebrew idiom meaning to hide the hand of God), and it speaks to the hunting of souls to make them fly. Pure and utter deception, which the Scripture so warns against.

.....I dont abide by such deception any more than I do the abominable Easter fertility rites that is practiced in most beth- avens, (supposed to be bethel), of this day. Jeremiah 44 speaks to this queen of heaven offering of drinks and cakes, and on the Passover Lambs day, no less! If in fact you are caught up in any of these things you need to come out, and repent. The whole world has gone to Babylon. Get on your knees and ask for that wisdom that can only come from God, ask for that understanding that only He can give; while youre down there, you may as well trouble Him for a little strength so that you might just bear up under the strain, (to increase knowledge is to increase sorrow, recall), because this knowledge of the Word will rend your heart, as again, BB posted. Again I would admonish you, sdb, that any man that thinks he knows something, (Scriptural), he knows it not as he should. I believe this the most vehement warning against allowing oneself to lean toward that condescending tone you seem to be so fond of.

.....I find many scoffers in these days, just as Peter said I would, but I submit to you that the true scoffers are in the church. As a voice in the wilderness, I cry aloud and spare not, face to face with the most ardent of them; quite the burden, wouldnt you agree?

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), January 13, 2000.

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), August 06, 2000

Answers

Why did you post this? Do you even know why?

-- KoFE (your@town.USA), August 06, 2000.

cpr is trying to ruin this board. He doesn't even know why.

-- (nemesis@awol.com), August 06, 2000.

I think there's a daily quota involved here. Trouble is, a lot of the really pithy* stuff has been used up, so we're starting to get down to the "By the way, do you mudwrestle?" level.

* Yes, that's the way I intended to spell it.

-- I'm Here, I'm There (I'm Everywhere@so.beware), August 06, 2000.

i think that Andy Ray is on vacation, so CreePeR is "filling in"...

-- WD-40 (wd40@squeak.not), August 06, 2000.

.....What is your point?

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), August 07, 2000.

Hi Patrick! =o)

-- cin (cin@cinn.cin), August 07, 2000.

Hi, cin...

.....How are you?

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), August 07, 2000.

All's well Patrick. Thank you for asking.

It's nice to see you're still around =o)

-- cin (cin@cinn.cin), August 07, 2000.

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Hey what can I say?? I can't help it I'm psychotic!

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), August 07, 2000.