For those of you who are pro-life--I just bare my soul to show what life is like to a adopted child. My life is Great ! In 1955, my father was transferred from Waynesboro, Va to Schenectady, NY to work, While there a carnival came to the neighborhood. My birth mother was working for this carnival. I was 3 months old. My birth mother left 5 children(myself and 4 others) up and down the street for babysitting purposes, stating she would return to pick us up on Monday. On monday she did not return. Instead of my mother, monday brought a warning phone call from a neighbor stating that the NY department of child welfare was picking up the children at the end of the block. My "MOTHER" petrified with fear grapped me and a cab and within hours I was at her birth home in Roanoke, Va. She was so frantic that she didn't stop to call my "Father" who was at work, till that night. From this home, from which I type this letter, she hired a private detective to track my mother down and let her sign adoption papers. I have led a wonderful life ! I have been blessed with love and exceptance from my whole family ! Four loving Grandparents, twelve uncles and aunts, one deceased "sister" and my "brother". I am well educated or at least I have all the education I desired. However, I have questions and no medical history. New York is a truly awful state that has no justice for an adopted child ! They continue to deny me my God given rights to information of my immediate family and medical records. I have more information than most adopted children and they still seal my information away from me. I'm sure God has a special "hot" spot in hell for anyone that works to keep such records from children who have been thru the New York department of child (no) welfare. Before an adoption can occur, there should be a "writ of demand" for future medical records and "writ of Knowledge" for immediate family members. So, if you wish to vote "pro-life' than I appeal to you--change the adoption laws ! A mother or father that sign away their rights should also sign away their right to privacy on medical records and siblings ! So let it be written , So let it be done !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), August 05, 2000

Answers

Joel, Are you wanting to talk about adoption laws or pro-life? I don't know much about the adoption laws and it would seem you could have some problems that would be better solved if you were privy to certain information.But first things first. You are alive.Pro-life is what it is. It is letting a child live to be born.I would rather see a baby with no history than no future.

-- Bonnie (Josabo1@juno.com), August 05, 2000.

It would seem to myself(and has) that those who promote pro-life have little or no clue to the underlying reason or effects of it. I am a good example while my mother-in-law raises kids for profit and uses the money to futher her cause. THE DEVIL INCARNATE ! Their are many like her ! So, I say--if life is to be lived in a whore's chains than death is better. That is not the case with myself but with most -it is. So, don't vote--LIVE IT ! Adopt or leave the issue to those who do !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), August 05, 2000.

Alabama's new adoptions records laws went into effect August first opening all adoption records to the children as soon as they turn 18.

I am pro-life because all life is precious. I have been an investigative newspaper reporter for more than 20 years for some of the most liberal newspapers in the country and I have seen child abuse at its worse and all other kinds of nightmarish conditions...

But most of the pro-lifers I know open their homes to pregnant mothers who need help; give generously of their finances and other means to help in these situations; and work tirelessly toward supporting adoption agencies that provide an alternative to abortion. They DO put ACTIONS WHERE THEY WORDS ARE.

-- Suzy in 'Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), August 05, 2000.

Suzy, in all those things you mentioned, you missed the point. Adopt or don't vote ! It is nice that these people give their money and homes--the point is---money doesn't buy my childhood and your home could be a garbage bag if you loved me ?

-- Joel (Joel681@webtv.net), August 05, 2000.

Joel, I hope that someday you will be able to find the answers you have been looking for. I am pro-life, I have a severely handicapped daughter that I couldn't imagine life without. But, Joel raises a good point. Alot of people (not all) talk about being pro-life, but with little action. Instead of both sides arguing about abortion why not find a solution? Arguing NEVER changes anything. Changing the adoption laws. More financial aid for the young mothers. Councelling. A waiting period. The list goes on and on. And another thing, with modern medicine a disability can be discovered while the baby is still in the womb. This baby will be born handicapped and need a strong parent to raise him/her. Are there enough facilities if no one wants them? Has anyone ever seen one of these so called facilities? ugh. What about when the parents die, what will happen to the handicapped child then? I feel all life is precious and no child should be aborted, but this country needs to start putting alot of caring, time (and money) into a solution. I think most Americans feel deep in their hearts that abortion is not right, but we as a Country have sat on our behinds and let others set the system up that is now in place. I saw where 80 percent of Americans are opposed to partial birth abortions. Then WHY is it still going on. We're as passive on this issue as we are with any others. As long as it doesn't affect us personally, let someone else handle it.....Hopefully we will have a new, strong President that will come up with some constructive solutions and end this mess.

-- Annie (mistletoe@earthlink.net), August 05, 2000.

I might do both! The thing is, to me this is a basic issue of right and wrong. You are right there are a lot of people who will abuse their responsibilites with regard to children, both biological, and adopted. The foster care system is absolutely garbage! The whole thing needs to be thrown out. There is no excuse for paying people to raise children. The only kind of foster care should be temporary, emergency care. If a parent puts themselves in the position of having their children taken away, then the children should be put up for adoption. The thing is, that abortion is murder. Unfortunately there will always be children on the earth who will suffer. There will always be people on the earth who will suffer. This is a fact of life, neither I nor you can control. All we can do is raise our own children, and love them, and touch as many other children we can with the love of Christ. I guess what I am saying is that things like thievery are wrong too, but that doesn't become right if you are stealing because you are hungry. Even so thievery is still wrong. The whole world suffers under the weight of sin. I haven't adopted a child yet, but I may in the future, after my own children are older. I have always wanted to give an unwanted child a home. Until then I will still stand against the murder of innocents, because murder is wrong. I will also find a way to help any children who cross my path with evil parents, and will support laws that will help protect them. The thing is Joel, two wrongs don't make a right. God is ultimately in control. He gave us a standard for living. If everyone lived by that standard, children would all have loving homes. Unfortunately that will never happen here, but we each have the chance to spend an eternity where their is no more pain and sorrow. I however don't think that only adoptive parents and children can decide the right or wrong of murder. That has already been decided and by a much greater power than I. It is not our job as Christians to decide which of God's laws we will support. It is our job to support them all,because we are nothing but dust and He is the Almighty God.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), August 05, 2000.

Joel, Ok since we are bareing our souls; I will tell you why I vote PRO-LIFE. My underlying reason is that the alternative is a MURDERED CHILD. No matter how you look at it. The only difference between abortion and murder is a birth certificate. Which in most cases would be eminate given a little time. And that is a fact weather or not you agree with it. And as for the affect you mentioned; adopted children do not hold a monopoly on misery. I was one of 7 children in our home. ( and I use the word lightly, but it was our world ) My mother worked and my dad was an alcaholic. He was verbaly, physically and sexually abusive to all of us.( for obvious reasons I will not go into great detail ) My life growing up was most times a living nightmare. My best friend and her sister were adopted. They were loved and very well cared for. They did not run and hide everytime their daddy came home. They did not duck in fear of their life everytime he moved.When my older sisters told my mother what he was doing she called them liars. ( I suppose for some reason she didn't want to deal with it) Some adoptive parents are better than boilogical parents.My mother also thinks it would be better for children to be aborted rather than to suffer abuse.But she would not listen to any of us of the abuse we suffered from him. And I know she is a guilty as he was. And there was a time that I blamed her more than him; because I thought she should have protected us. So I ask you Joel ; which one of my precious sisters or brothers should have been aborted? Maybe me? I may just be me but I am fearfully and wonderfully made. And my God gave me life. And it should not be in my mothers hands to take it away. I understand suffering and abuse all to well. Is your problem with adoption with or child abuse.The two do not of necessity go hand in hand.

-- Bonnie (Josabo1@jono.com), August 05, 2000.

My problem is the lack of substansial information--I would like to know my siblings ! I woould not intrude on my birth-parents !

-- Joel (Joel681@webtv.net), August 05, 2000.

I always said this and I stick to my guns " It is better that 100 children live in abusive homes and live thru it , than one parent is wrongfully accussed of discipline and the state raises a criminal" Let the parent be damned but spare me the child !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), August 05, 2000.

Joel, You said "It is better that 100 children live in abusive homes and live thru it , than one parent is wrongfully accussed of discipline? and then in the same sentence " the parents be damned but spare me the child? This seems to be a contradiction. Every child the state raises does not become a criminal.I do not have the answer to change the ills of the system. But murdering every unwanted child is not the answer either. What are some practical ways that we as individuals can help.

-- Bonnie (josabo1@juno.com), August 06, 2000.

These two threads seem to be running together, Bonnie. Spare me the child is a reference for myself that I don't expect to see every child run into the system because of discipline problems. Either parental or child related. My oinions are drawing much heat but here they are anyway. I believe an old phrase--"to the manner born" Some of us took a real kick in the hind quarters while some are richly blessed. That is Fate ! Many of the children my mother-in-law gets are disputes over it is all right for a parent to discipline a rebellious child. IMHO, if they belong to you than you may use any reasonable method to control them. If that means riding ruff shod over their attitude than by all means , do it ! If you need to throw some bad influences off your front porch and break some heads to accomplish that than, do it. But do not bring the matter to court--Spare me that whining of a useless issue. I believe until the child is 18 they can suffer thru any petty difference they accumulate along the way. I call this to the manner born. So, I'm the product of a woman who could not keep her jeans around her waist. So Be It ! I will work harder than others and I will overcome my situation and hopefully I will give my children a better--"to the manner born ". I hope this clears up my statement.

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), August 06, 2000.

Joel, May God bless you. My husband is 35 years old, adopted at 5 months old by a truly remarkable family. He, too, has suffered the court system, in West Virginia, that will not give any "identifying" information to him. He would like to know who his birht parents are but more importantly would like to know his medical history for himself and the sake of his children. We would also like to have a child together but my family history of genetic defects and physical symptoms on his part can only leave us open to a world full of possibilities and impossibilities. How can we choose without the knowledge that most families have? His oldest chid is know being treated for an "anxiety disorder" that may very well be something else. But how will we ever know? Petition the court? Only in life and death matters here. But Joel, your statement about the jeans really bothers me. Remember, it takes two to conceive a child. So many strong words toward women, but no man is also responsible? I think you should know that my husband seems to feel the same pain that you do. A pain that I can't totally understand. We both grew up in stable homes with a constant mom and dad who are bth still here today, and yet he has this longing for something he can't find. Would his life be different if his parents never told him any difference?

-- Terri Perry (tperry@stargate.net), August 08, 2000.

Those are good points and questions, Terri. The answer(for me) is--Yes, if a child is under 1 year old at adoption and I had a trustworthy family--I see no purpose in telling the child. Life is better lived without the agony of explaining adoption. Spare the child the life long question process. On the jeans issue--I have "too much information"--my mother was married to a warrant officer with 4 children, while he was at sea than came me. Yes, it takes two to tango but as you can see in my situation the fault lays with my mother and her inability to remain celibate. When she left us she was busy chasing some carnival owner she had become infatuated with. I understand your point though. Petition the Court--LMAO. Have you ever been to family court ? These are the judges that can't pass a bar exam ! Most can't pass any bar without 4 or 5 drinks. Often asleep while in secession they make consistantly bad decisions. They are the worst possible human beings tobe allowed a child's fate ! It would be better for us to be thrown with a pack of wolves in the yellowstone than to be put in the hands of these individuals. They sell us to foster parents and adoption ! As you can see in the other thread that I made the foster parents angry when I pointed this out. But with wolves I would have a fighting chance to become a respected member of the pack. Petion the court ? NO Take what ever means necessary to the court house and retrieve the information you desire. Any paper containing your name is your property not the states. Thanks for your reply !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), August 08, 2000.

Joel, Just had a chance today to log back on and see what all else has been said here.

I agree that the foster care situation in this country is basically a joke and I also agree that if a parent cannot raise a child that child should be adopted by someone who will love and protect that child.

Your comments are full of contradictions which shows you must be very confused because of things that have occurred in your life.

My husband was a foster child in RURAL Alabama in the late 1950's and early 1960's. He came through the system o.k. has never murdered anyone nor committed a major crime. He's had more problems dealing with things his natural father did to him,his siblings, and his mother than he had dealing with the foster parent thing.

In our county a group of volunteers runs a pro-life counseling organization that is all-volunteer and receives no governmental funding. They provide FREE counseling, found homes for the mothers, temporary and private, have baby showers for the mothers where they get EVERYTHING they need, and much more.

There is also another group of volunteers who are doing the same type thing with drug and alcohol abussers and also providing help for domestic violence victims. THey too are refusing all government money so they don't have the government restrictions placed on them.

I agree we all should do more. You can be a big advocate of having adoption laws changed. Have you talked to you Congressmen and others??? Change is begun by the actions of a single person.

Thank you for all your comments and discussion here. I'm certain you've made a lot of people stop and thing. Suzy

-- slgt@yahoo.com (slgt@yahoo.com), August 08, 2000.