Income Tax Illegal!greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread
Here is a site that will show you the how's and why's of the illegal income tax. Take a look at their site. They have an ad to download and I am going to try to take an ad in our weekly reader. Check it out.
-- Doreen (email@example.com), August 01, 2000
Read the following quote from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO)... [cbo.org]
"The federal tax system will raise nearly $2 trillion in fiscal year 2000 (see Table 1). Over 90 percent of that revenue will come from income and social insurance taxes. Individual income taxes are the largest source, accounting for nearly half of the total. Social insurance taxes, levied primarily to support Social Security and Medicare, make up another third. The remainder splits roughly evenly between the corporate income tax and a variety of smaller revenue sources including excise taxes, the estate and gift tax, customs duties, and miscellaneous levies."
If so much of the budget is coming from income taxes, then what's the point of trying to prove them illegal? Congress will simply find another way to impose taxes. Do you actually think anyone in Congress is going to allow the Federal government to go broke? Don't think so.
It makes for an interesting "brain teaser", but in all truth, that's as far as its going to go. I do believe, however, that corporations are getting away scott-free. Their tax burden is way out of whack with what the individual tax payer must suffer. I think we could get a lot more mileage out of that issue. Just my -$3.00 (that's plus 2 cents before taxes) :)
-- Craig Miller (CMiller@ssd.com), August 02, 2000.
Craig, the only problem with your reasoning is that every thing other than the SSI taxes do not even stay with in this country. The Federal Reserve Board is not listed in the blue pages of your local phone book because it isn't even part of the Federal Government. The IRS divvys (sp?) up the funds between the Federal reserve Board and The SSI administration and charges a nice fee for themselves and their employees and the rest leaves the country and goes to the banks of Europe to the 7 members of the Federal Reserve Boards acoounts.
There is no doubt at all that they are stealing a lot of money from you and I and almost everyone else. Do you think that if they had to do it all over again that any one who was a Congressional Rep would be able to hold his position by saying, "We are going to happily continue to let these people take your money even though it is in direct violation of the Constituition and we are getting our revenue through other means. These folks have come to depend upon your contributions to their lifestyles and who are we to stand up for the law? Especially at such a late date as this."
I don't want to tease anyone's brain. I want to get this information out to as many people as possible so that they have to address it. Remember that article about the legislation that would effectively cripple the 4th ammendment? Because so many people took action and e mailed or called or wrote their congressman it got stopped. More than anything the elected "officials" want to keep their jobs. I think most of them feel their is some prestige associated with the nice salary and excellent retirement benefits. So long as they make nice with us they can keep their esteemed positions. Remember, it is the consent of the governed, always. It doesn't matter how despicable a government is, if the people don't take it, the government cannot continue to violate them. There is more strength in numbers than there is in position.
Sorry for the rant, but I am really hoping people check into it instead of just saying something so passive as "I have always paid my taxes, so even if it's wrong I will keep doing it."
-- Doreen (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 02, 2000.
Hi Doreen (again),
Well, we agree on one thing; people really need to be informed of the issues. I also agree that the whole IRS is a mess. But, where we part company is that I'm going to concentrate my energies on what I believe has even a remote chance of getting fixed. IMHO (in my humble opinion), the graduated income tax will never be abolished, but it can be made more equitable and uniform. That's where my sweat is going to go.
I believe the whole issue as stated by the web site involves the validity of 16th Amendment and the IRS. Leave the Federal Reserve out of it. They don't collect taxes, they enforce monetary policy as set forth by acts of Congress. For a better look at the Federal Reserve system, check out www.federalreserve.gov. Very interesting profiles on the current Board members and well as policies and regulations. Most, but not all, of their meetings are open to the public and transcripts and audio recordings are also available.
Oh, and the telephone numbers you're looking for are there too. :)
-- Craig Miller (CMiller@ssd.com), August 03, 2000.
I guess it's just you and I on this one, huh?
I cannot get the cbo.org to come up at all. They are not listed as having a site thru the Thomas Search engines of Senator Pat Robertson.
The Federal Reserve Board has not one single open meeting on their schedule.
They also state that Congress gave them their power in 1913. They site no legislation. That same year is when the 16th ammendment was written into the Constitution.
-- Doreen (email@example.com), August 03, 2000.
I understand all the arguments around the position that income tax is illegal, but I agree that it's pointless to try to "prove" it to the government. But did you realize that the tax laws now favor home- based business? It is now possible for John Q. Homesteader, home- based business enterpreneur, to deduct all sorts of things as business expenses. You just have to know how to structure it, and that's easy to learn. There's more to this than I could ever post on the forum, but if you'd like to know more, please e-mail me directly and I will be happy to share what I have learned about fighting "tax cancer."
-- Nancy Johnston (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 04, 2000.
I looked up the site and found it interesting. If the government is not willing to listen to the arguement, I dont see how to get any satisfaction. I really, really, really hate taxes and would love to not file. I'm pretty sure I would get arrested if I didn't file though. It seems that I have heard of people that have tried this and have spent time in prison. My husband and I were talking about this the other day and wondered how things got paid for before taxes and why didn't the taxes end once the civil war was over? Wasn't income tax started to fund the war? Just wondering?
-- Denise (email@example.com), August 04, 2000.
Denise, here is a relly good site that Craig reccommended to me in a private e-mail... www.cats.org/articles/16hist.html. It's a nice little summation of a heck of a lot of information that I have read elsewhere at much greater mental expense. Especially the book "the Law that Never Was"...that one was rough.
Anyhow, the Civil War was the first time an income tax was taken and then it was seperately paid by each state according to population (apportioned) and it was repealed after the costs were recovered and the economy was back on it's feet.
The way that the Government made it before the income tax was through Constitutionally correct taxes on actual goods. They are still taking plenty of those!
I am not against taxes per se as they are necessary to keep the government afloat. But I hardly think the Founders were thinking that it made good sense to charge everyone approximately half of their income to the Federal Government.
I will have to get some books from home that give the specific delineations of the ratification process that was faulty and post some of that. I honestly didn't intend to get into arguements with tax lawyers over this. I knew I couldn't make it in law when I heard the first words of the Intro class Prof were, "If you think that you are going to be able to help people and adhere to some idealistic view of justice, you should just pack up your books and head for the door right now." I just believe in doing what is right and have more than a passing reverence for the Constitution.
-- Doreen (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 04, 2000.