Why did Christ, when he was up there on that cross of his, blurt out:

"Oh, My Lord, why have you forsaken me?!"

Or, something to that effect...

Did he lose the faith? Did he, thru pain, wake up to the insidious nature of his own megalamania?

Just curious...

-- Raymond P. (not-sure@conffused.com), July 27, 2000

Answers

Hi Raymond

At the cross, the Holy Spirit withdrew from Christ. During the last three hours on the cross, the Holy Spirit did not sustain Jesus, who was in that time experiencing spiritual death (Mt 27:45,46; Mk 15:34; Ps 22:1). In the baptism of the cross (Lk 12:50) when the sins of all men were poured out on Christ, the Lord was changed. He became sin (2 Cor 5:21). On the cross, when Jesus was identified with our sins, He was under condemnation, severed from God the Father and God the Spirit (Mt 27:46).

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.-Jo 3:36

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the scriptures.-1 Cor 15:3,4

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.-Jo 3:16

It's salvation not probation. Eternal security, not temporal. - Col 1:13; Jo 10:28,29; Eph 4:30

I pray this helps.

-- (bygrace@thru.faith), July 27, 2000.

How do you know he said that? I don't believe he did.

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), July 27, 2000.

Hawk, hush. You'll fuck up the show for the rest of us.

-- Hot Buttered Popcorn (and.a.diet@coke.net), July 27, 2000.

LOL! I'm suprised al-d didn't smell the word "Christ" travellin through his modem yet!

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), July 27, 2000.

John 3:16 and John 3:36 seem contradictory. Is grace freely given or do we have to earn it by believing in it? (Catch 22).

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), July 27, 2000.

Lars, how does "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." contradict "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."?

-- Butt Nugget (catsbutt@umailme.com), July 28, 2000.

Hi Lars

searching thru Bible and notes...All of everybody's sins has already been paid at the cross. The debt has been paid. Good news. The promise is - because He took all our sins, by a simple act of faith in Him, we can enter into a relationship with God and God gives us the free gift of His own righteousness(2 Cor 5:21) and eternal life. Both verses- vs. 16,36 say believe to receive. Believing is not earning the free gift, but accepting it. One must reach out with the hand of faith and accept the free gift. God is a gentleman; He won't shove it down anyone's throat...Eph 2:8,9 - "For by grace you have been saved thru faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, to that no one may boast."....Jo 1:16 - grace is increasing and going off the charts. The more grace you receive, the more there is for you to receive. Ro 5:20 - grace will never be used up. It's not a commodity that can be used up. Lars and anyone else, do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?

-- (bygrace@thru.faith), July 28, 2000.

BN,

Well I hope it doesn't. My trouble is that my faith in the Son has always been tenuous while at the same time I have been attracted to Christianity by the promise of grace. John 3:36 makes it sound like my faith in the son had best not be tenuous or (to revive an old expression), I am toast.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), July 28, 2000.

bygrace--

I responded to BN before I saw your post. Thanks, I like the idea of accepting a free gift, not earning it.

Do I believe that the Bible is the Word of God? My honest answer is "maybe".

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), July 28, 2000.

Nothing to lose and everything to gain by accepting the free gift. We must believe before we can see. Praying for you.

-- (bygrace@thru.faith), July 28, 2000.

GOD HELPS THOSE--THAT CAN,T HELP THEMSELVES==GRACE!!! I NEED ALL THE GRACE AVAILABLE--CAUSE THERE,S SOME PEOPLE ,I,D LIKE TO CREAM!!!I,D REALLY ENJOY=STOMPING THE CRAP OUT OF RAT,S- ASS=RATION!!---NOW I GOTTA REPENT!!! UGH!!HEY I AIN,T PERFECT.... GOD IS GOOD--PEOPLE SUCK!![NOT-ALL]

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), July 28, 2000.

JESUS NEVER SINNED--THEN HE BECAME=SIN!!WOULDN,T YOU FREAK TOO!! HE WAS ALWAY,S =SUPER TIGHT WITH FATHER[GOD]THEN GOD REJECT,S HIM[FOR US]BUT HE DID IT FOR US!!SO WE CAN GO FREE![BY=FAITH] MAN THAT,S HEAVY-DUTY=LOVE!!!CALL ME NAMES-SHOOT THE FLAMES-YOU DIDN,T DIE FOR ME!!--WUBBA-WUBBA-DING-DONG-SOONER OR LATER WE,LL GET ALONG!!-HEY RATion YA WANNA BE MY VALENTINE??smooch-smooch!!

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), July 28, 2000.

Nothing to gain and an entire life to lose by buying into the bullshit fable that is Christianity. Believe whatever you want, but keep your grip on your wallet and your brain before the Christies suck both away from you. Best wishes for all, deluded Christians and laughing atheists all.

-- Jesus H. Christ (faith@bullshit.com), July 28, 2000.

and 'Jesus' what evidence do you offer to prove what you are saying is true?

-- You sound like a sucker (holdOn@toYour.wallet), July 28, 2000.

...do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?

All is of God, IMO. So in this respect I have to answer yes. I do not subscribe to the Bible and the teachings within, however. I believe there are many, many, many paths back home. I have found mine and I am thrilled that you have found yours.

May I add you are a delightful presence on this forum, bygrace. Thank you for your tenderness and understanding.

Peace,

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), July 28, 2000.

The Bible is perfect! THE BIBLE IS PERFECT!!! THERE IS NO INCONSISTANCY IN THE BIBLE!!!!!!! Everything that seems inconsistant is perfectly consistant, you just DON'T UNDERSTAND IT CORRECTLY you hell-bound sinner!

-- Citizen Ruth (ruth_parker@yahoo.com), July 28, 2000.

By Grace,

Heck of a summary.

Lars, you said,

I like the idea of accepting a free gift, not earning it.

Think about your life itself. It's a free gift to you, you didn't have to earn it. Your *parents* may have paid for it, but not you. It wouldn't be too far of a stretch to carry this over to...

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), July 28, 2000.

GOD HAS A-HOBBY---HE COLLECT,S==FAILURES ,& RENEWS THEM!!!

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), July 28, 2000.

"and 'Jesus' what evidence do you offer to prove what you are saying is true?"

"-- You sound like a sucker (holdOn@toYour.wallet), July 28, 2000."

Yadda yadda yadda. I've got as much evidence to support my position as you have to support yours. What evidence have YOU got?

-- Jesus H. Christ (faith@bullshit.com), July 31, 2000.