My thoughts on Pornograpy--Joel

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I dislike pornography ! As of late, when I post a political thought, I get a bunch of it. I am working with others on this forum to end that because I still have two young children. I do not blame Countryside or Steve for any of this. For years, the only use of the internet was pornography. I guess I believe the internet was built by the porno industry. The latest sales fiqures from the experts say 70% of sales on the internt are pornographic related. As a younger man I saw magazines and movies of such. While in Sweden they were on racks 3 feet from the stool I enjoyed a ice cream from. I applauded when Larry Flint was "freed" by the Supreme Court. I hated how he made a living but I applauded the free speech decision. However, there is a HUGE difference in giving me a choice to listen and printing sexual explicited pictures in my living quarters. I find a womans body as exciting as any man--that woman is now my wife. I believe pornography oftens uses people who normally would not do this if not for hardship. Those hardships usually being financial but sometimes emotional. So, I denounce pornography as immoral for myself. I hope someday that pornography is banned from the internet. I also realize that nobody will kill the "cash cow". Some of my family and my attorney say that the feds will use records of my internet travels to discredit me should they ever wish to. That is why I only receive them after a political posting. So, For the Record--I despise pornography ! I consider it as immoral as racism,slavery and any other way one chooses to make a living off the sorrows and dispairs of others. If this reaches the individual or group that is sending it to me than: I appeal to you to stop sending it here as I have small children. Thank You.

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), July 25, 2000

Answers

Joel , I too sometimes get this crap sent to me .I also have small children in the house . I never write anything political , some of my views may be consider extreme so I'll stay out of it for a while longer .I am still hoping noone is targeting you direct .Hope all goes well for you .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), July 25, 2000.

Joel! I agree with most of what you say. I DON'T think freedom of speech would include pronographic material. It has NO redeeming features other than exploiting women usually, just to make money. I think it's a sick and perverted mind that dwells upon this garbage. I have yet to receive this trash because of political statements I've made but can symathize with you and your encounters with these money grubbers. God will hold each of us accountable for what we have done in this life and I certainly don't think porno will be considered favorably by Him as helping spread the Gospel! My two cents worth. Matt. 24:44

-- hoot gibson (hoot@pcinetwork.com), July 25, 2000.

The three main reasons there is so much porn. out there are: there is a huge demand, it is readily available (even over eBay) and it is an extremely profitable industry, with markups of 1,000% or more over cost.

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), July 25, 2000.

Well, Joel, I can't disagree with much of what you say (or what Ken says either). I'm not quite as inclined to be hardline about sexually suggestive material as some others, but I realise that most of it is a good deal more explicit than suggestive, and I despise those who victimise people to get them involved in the making of it. I do strongly disapprove when material which is at best questionable, and frequently a lot more than that, gets broadcast uncontrolled to all and sundry, including children.

However, when you say "I hope someday that pornography is banned from the internet", THEN I STRONGLY disagree.

Some major reasons:

I don't believe anyone should be able to tell other people how to live their lives. What they do may be wrong, but I believe it would be as TRULY obscene to try to enforce a method of living on others (provided they're not hurting people), as it would be to hurt others. If we disagree with what they're doing, we have the freedom to try to convince them differently. Beyond that, they have to be free to go to hell in their own way, if that's their inclination.

"Banned" implies giving someone the authority to do that. Which government are you going to trust with that? What penalties? What investigative authorities and enforcement police? What powers? More government interference and enforcewment in our lives is a good thing? Not hardly! The fact is, I don't believe it can be done, or I'd be a good deal more vocal about this than I have been, because our very own home-grown idiots - sorry delete that - politicians here in Australia are passing laws to that effect. Well, they would be to that effect, if they could have any effect. They can't - for the first time in the history of the world, the world is becoming totally free, and totally informed, thanks to the Internet. It won't all be good, and we'll have to learn to come to terms with a lot of changes, but they can't put the genie back in the bottle. A number of clueless idiots and politicians - but I repeat myself - will try (as they're also trying in the UK now), but they just don't get it, they are trying to legislate something they don't understand. One facet: the Internet was originally designed to be a military-strength fault- tolerant communication network, and it treats censorship as a fault - it simply routes around it.

Coercement, I guess, is at the heart of what I consider obscene. Sexual, personal freedom, political (and of course spammers trying to ruin our new-found freedom, forcing us to use own personal resources and time for their selfish ends).

Well, bet you didn't expect to press that button. Took me by surprise too.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), July 25, 2000.


I must say that I agree with Don. I absolutely abhor pornography as I think it is demeaning to everyone, but I think "ban" is more frightening.

I would not be opposed to a restriction on spam, or simply making unsolicited e mails "illegal" or something of the sort. I don't know how blocking unslicited email or banners would work, but I think something like that would be good.

-- Doreen (livinginskin@yahoo.com), July 25, 2000.



While we're at it, can we figure out a way to stop unsolicited telephone calls, too?!? I haven't had any of the garbage on my computer yet (Thank you, Lord), but have, in my life time, gotten several obscene phone calls, and more telephone spam than I can keep track of. Though at least with the phone, eventually they get tired of hearing me say "We do not buy anything, ever, from any company that calls us with a telemarketing call."!! And they take us off their lists -- we don't get nearly so many of those calls as we used to. I suppose eventually the same thing will happen with the e-mail spams -- if they don't make money, they'll stop, or at least slow down. But the porn is another story. As long as people are born sinful, that will continue, to the hurt of all involved. The internet has its good points, but that isn't one of them.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), July 25, 2000.

I am so sorry that you two are having this kind of trouble. Recently my sister called me and told me someone has been using her phone number to pay for internet porn. She went to the phone company and complained about the cost of the bill and after extended negotiation they removed it from the bill but only if she agreed to completely block her ability to have any internet purchases blocked from her phone bill forever. At the time that these purchses were supposedly made both she and her husband were out of town. Her ISP account shows that they weren't even on the internet at that time, but AT&T won't believe them saying they could have used a different account for the purchases. She tried to get her ISP to agree to a three way phone call to prove her case but AT&T said that it was against company policy. The ISP said it was against federal law for them to send the phone company records. So consequently my sister has to pay for someone elses porn problem, by never being able to have anything charged to her phone bill again. Be Careful people! I am very careful to simply delete anything that doesn't come from a recognized list or someone I know. This helps prevent viruses also. Isn't there a way to track these things back to a specific person, or at least to their ISP. From what I understand, It is possible. Also while you are doing this be careful because from what I understand some of these porn sites start charging you unexpectedly. There have been people who have just stumbled into one and were charged later.

little bit farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), July 25, 2000.


I agree with Don. I think pornography is disgusting and caters to simplistic minds. There is nothing religious about that belief, just a life observation. But banning and "book-burning" tactics scare me more than pornography disgusts me. It starts a ball rolling, giving power where power shouldn';t be. We need another solution to rid ourselves of unsolicited material.

-- sue (sulandherb@aol.com), July 25, 2000.

I have also had a problem with a few porn e-mails, although I have never been on any of their sites. When I was having some other e-mail problems and was talking to Earthlink, my provider, the man there said he noticed some other things in my e-mail history I might want to block. He gave me a abuse@earthlink.net phone number to call and give them the abusers e-mail address and Earthlink would block them. Do any other providers offer this. Might be worth finding out. Also on phone problems, the state of Tennessee have passed a bill that restricts telemarketing. The citizens can call directly to the state to have their name added to the "don't call" list or sign up on the states internet site. The telemarketers cannont call you if your on the list. The telemarketers also face a stiff fine if they call a person on the list. I know there were thousands of us that added our names to the list. Everyone is so sick of telemarketers! Hope the idea the state has, works out.

-- Annie (mistletoe@earthlink.net), July 25, 2000.

I have a storie myself. I got a charge to my credit card that was from a source that I didn't recognize and in the description was listed a phone number so I called the 1-800 number. They said they were some sort of porn site, so I called my card company and told them that it was unauthorized. All I had to do was sign an statement and have it notorized that I didn't make that charge and they changed my number for me. Second, I caught my step brother (16 years seperate us) surfing on these porn sites and for months, I got vile email messages urging me to visit these terrible sites. I have explained that this was not aceptable at my house and invited him to leave the moment I found him visiting these sites.

-- Ed Holt (goat@sssnet.com), July 25, 2000.


Perhaps "Ban" is too strong a word. I see your points. Lets try ---unavailable to be shipped via e-mail. But while we are on the subject--Did anyone complain when tobacco ads were banned via government edict ? I think that one started the ball rolling. There are also many banned books in this country. I own several of them, such as--The Art of Gorilla Warfare-by Che' Guevera, The Arsonists Cookbook and Uncle Festers Cookbook. Banning is done quite often in the good ole USA. I hear that the CBS show Touched By an Angel has been sued by an athiest and is being removed from the air as a" out of court settlement " I guess this is a country where you can't pray in schools, can't watch religious oriented material but you have to endure pornography sent to your home. Is this really the logic we want to pass on to future generations ????

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), July 26, 2000.

I get a good number of porn e-mails ..it is a pain in the neck but usually I don't even have to open them the address usually gives a big clue that the mail is something to do with porn .... I just don't open 'em because it doesn't interest me. Actually I think pornography is just fine if that's your thing (I don't agree with child porn.). Aren't you able to see the subject letter line and know if you want to open it or not? (maybe all the subject signs are empty so you don't know what you are getting?)

-- kelly (kellytree@hotmail.com), July 26, 2000.

Some thoughts of my own...

Don is right on the mark. The internet's greatest asset is that it can't be controlled. It's greatest weakness is that it can't be controlled. Anyone who think the Internet CAN be controlled has no concept about how it works. It is international is scope. One country's attempt at banning is totally ignored by the rest.

I'm not worried about government snooping. There are about 4 BILLION internet emails every day. I'm worried about the 14 year-old-geek in Poughkeepsie New York, or Brasil, or Thailand who has a server in his bedroom that is intercepting credit card numbers and cell phone numbers and is using free software to crack the codes.

So, I don't make purchases over the Internet using a credit card number. If the vendor doesn't allow for payment by check or credit card via snail mail, I won't buy it. Or, I look up on the Internet what I want and go to the store and buy it. About once a year or so, I report my credit card stolen. They issue me a new one with a new number. That voids the old number that some clown has stored on his hard disk some place as well as any vendor that may have picked it up from another source.

Never charging anything else to my phone number? What's the big deal? My telephone is for just that. Nothing more. No loss there. I also have a "900" block on my phone.

Don't forget, folks. The Internet for the rest of us is about 5 years old. Still going through "teething". Concerned parents DO make a difference and WILL determine the future of the Net. Money speaks. Especially when it's yours. Stay tuned.

(:raig

-- Craig Miller (CMiller@ssd.com), July 26, 2000.


Those who are fans of "Touched by an Angel" will be happy to know that : 'For the past several months, a chain email has been floating around the internet and our message board stating that the FCC is forcing CBS to take Touched By An Angel off the air because we mention the word "God." The email goes on to ask its readers to send a petition to the FCC to save the show. This is a new variation of an old hoax that has circulated (originally in paper chain letter form) for the past 26 years. If you are a recipient of this email, please ignore it. As a matter of fact, we are very pleased to announce that CBS has already renewed our show for 24 episodes next season. We are very excited by the opportunity to bring you a seventh season of Touched By An Angel!'

The website is at: http://www.touched.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi

-- J E FROELICH (dragnfly@chorus.net), July 26, 2000.


I also don't endorse porn, however, I do prefer that people who want it have someplace to go. If those porn bars didn;t exist, those patrons could very well end up socializing with us, looking at our wives and children for their entertainment. At least with the seedy establishments out there, we know where the threat exists. I have to agree with Ken on this one, its here because there is a demand. This is also why I find myself associating with you folks here at countryside, I have no interest in pornand if more people choose the better lifestyles it will go away. Look at big tobacco companies, the public has forced them into other fields.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), July 30, 2000.


In a perfect world, men and women would respect each other. Since this isn't a perfect world and many don't, (in this situation it's pretty much men who don't respect women) pornography exists. When the day comes when we treat each other like the Golden Rule says, pornography will cease to exist. Banning it will never work as it will just drive it underground. Sadly, since the world seems so hell- bent on maintaining inequality (doesn't mean that we are all the same!...don't start flaming!) we won't see the end of this. Power issues manipulated by commercial interests are easy $$$ money makers. Just check out the last oh, 100 years or so of advertising!

So we just have to do what we can, and for me that means ignoring pornography sometimes; commenting about it sometimes; educating people to the extent that I can whenever; and not supporting anything that exploits people or animals to that end always!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.nte), July 30, 2000.


This may be a silly question, but I just have to ask it.

So if the U.S.A. is a free country, with freedom of religion, FOUNDED by Europeans escaping religious persecution, then don't we have the freedom as christians to stand up for OUR rights and get off our rear ends and make some noise to return prayer to schools as free choice?

Those who don't want to pray in school don't have to, but those who want their kids to have prayer in school should have the freedom to do that.

I mean, if the U.S.A. allows freedom of religion to worship Satan, then W H Y C A N ' T W E H A V E OUR PRAYER IN SCHOOLS?

Think about it. Let's MAKE SOME NOISE. Knock on doors, get signatures on letters to our elected officials. If a few sour apples can take prayer out of schools, WE can get it back.

Hey, they reversed bussing the kids, didn't they?

-- Robert Addison (FarmerbobMO@netscape.net), July 31, 2000.


robert, you asked "why can't we have prayer in schools?" you answered your own question by stating that we have freedom of religion. i am a christian who has my salvation and i also work in the public education system. students can pray at school during their free time. they discuss God with their friends(i have proudly listened to many of these conversations). but you can't say "ok. we're gonna pray in class and if you don't want to you just have to sit there." while i don't agree with a person's choice to believe there is not a God i respect the freedom they have to believe it because that same freedom gives me the right to sit in a church that is free of government control and i can't praise God to anyone on the street that i want to.

-- Amber (ambrosia75_@hotmail.com), August 01, 2000.

In answer to the lady looking for a way to divert junk telephone calls: Some areas have a service that allows you to set up a menu of automatically accepted ph.#s and if the number calling you isn't on this list they are given the choice of identifying themselves before the call is put through or hanging up, because with no ID the call is dumped.

-- Soni Pitts (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), August 01, 2000.

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