My ultimate doomer prediction: Population of Earth will be less than 1 billion by 2025 : LUSENET : TB2K spinoff uncensored : One Thread

We are entering into a period of intensifying extremes, drastic changes, and disastrous events... bad karma produced from this technological fiasco which we consider to be an "advanced" society. "Advanced" perhaps, relative to sticks and stones, but not evolved, or truly intelligent. We play with energy as though it were a toy, but our very existence in this physical world depends on its balance. Simple physics really... for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

The elimination of our current disharmonious infrastructure is necessary and inevitable before harmony will be attained. Unfortunately it is too late for us to undo what we have done, and we don't know how. Nature, with or without our help, will continue to be the correcting force in the universe, always seeking balance. Mother Nature will continue to react in a manner which counteracts our own foolish manipulations, rapidly accelerating and becoming more intense, eventually destroying everything which produces disharmony in the Universe.

The human condition is doomed to get MUCH worse before it gets better. Billions will die over the next couple of decades due to drought, famine, lack of water, disease, insanity, and war. I imagine that a small fraction of our current population may be able to adapt to living underground like the rats that we are, until we someday learn to appreciate living above the surface in a state of harmony with All That Is.

Just a few recent examples of Nature's reaction to our destructive human activities...

So far, 2000 is warmest year yet in U.S.

Storms knock out power, but don't cool off southern U.S.

Flood-ravaged Venezuela focuses on avoiding epidemics

European temperatures break century-old records

Heat, drought take toll on man and beast

NASA confirms Greenland ice cap melting

Stormy weather buffeted U.S. in 1999

Severe weather rolls into the South; showers hit Plains states

8 dead, 79 injured as tornado hits campground in Alberta, Canada

Swollen rivers sweep away holiday homes in Sweden

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), July 22, 2000


Don't forget

Brit ney Spears monster concert production can't fit in famed Denver Red Rocks venue

You can pretty much write off the entire population of Denver due to mass suicides after this.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), July 22, 2000.

Fuck you, hmmmm.

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), July 22, 2000.

Speaking of sex, rats, and Denver, isn't the NWO doing some major tunneling out there?

-- KoFE (your@town.USA), July 22, 2000.

Well, now you've convinced me. LOL.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), July 22, 2000.

I grew up with a Doomer Dad and a profound respect for the power of Mother Nature, so I read this info and say to myself "Yup...goin' to hell in a handbasket...Yup, the writing is on the wall!"

But I also grew up with a pragmatic Mom who believed "So what? The world always manages to go on..."

So I've come to a compromise between these two schools of thought: Yeah, we've fucked ourselved in a million and one ways, but we'll muddle through somehow. We'll adapt. We'll get creative. Some of the herd might get culled. But for the most part, the beat goes on...

-- LunaC (, July 22, 2000.

NWO, yo, loves dat gangstah rap.

-- (, July 22, 2000.

Second response is an impostor, not me. (how childish)

I thought it was rather funny, hmmmm.

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), July 22, 2000.

The neck is definately out on this one Hawk. 2025? Last big culling was about 70K years ago but that was volcanic in orign.

Hope I live to see you wrong.

-- Carlos (, July 22, 2000.

According to The U.S. Census Bureau, the current world population is hovering around 6 billion. 6 billion to 1 billion in 25 years = a pretty serious culling.

-- I'm Here, I'm There (I'm Everywhere@so.beware), July 22, 2000.

I think you are right Luna, the beat goes on But I think there is some chance the beat may change, what the probability of that is.. is unknown.

That is the heart of the problem, nobody can really say what is going to happen. We have probably upset what we don't understand.

I believe the earth has many checks and balances in terms of moving energy in the atmosphere. We need to help this.

I try to do my tiny part but it is useless mostly. Nature will do her part with or without us.

The thing about mother nature is that it is a good idea to listen to your mother.

-- Will (, July 22, 2000.

We're all going to die.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), July 22, 2000.

I've always believed that the key is "balance"; for everything you remove, you must replace. Simplistic? Probably. But it *is* and always has been nature's way. And there's probably a really good reason it's worked.

Will, I agree with you where you said that you didn't think your little part makes a difference; but add *my* little part to that, and suddenly there *is* a bit of a difference. And we *can't* be the only two people "doing our little part". No, I don't think there are enough of us; and it's really sad that basic things like "recycling" have to become a "fad" before they catch on.

But however we can do it, we should.

-- Patricia (, July 22, 2000.

Patricia, I have to agree that there should be a balance, take out what you put in. But I'm also a realist. See:

If you really look at the map you'll see a lot more grey area than you do Blue area. Now, you tell me if the NASA studies really tell the truth, or is this just more BS by the Greens? Think about it.

-- Mr. Slippery (slip@slide.cum), July 23, 2000.


Perhaps I am sticking my neck out, but after considering all factors involved I think 2025 is realistic. In fact I wouldn't be suprised to see this happen sooner than that.

I am taking into account the effects of the "quickening" phenomena which is occurring among the human species. Our accumulation of material things never truly satisfies us, but instead of seeking a higher quality of experiences we seek larger amounts. We want everything and we want it now. As a result, we are producing, manipulating, and consuming larger and larger amounts of energy every day. The net result is an increasing and accelerating level of energy within the biosphere of this planet.

The temperature of the atmosphere getting warmer is one thing, but now the oceans are getting warmer. Mother Nature is going to have to hit back hard and long to adjust for this imbalance. I believe that the drastic changes that are beginning to occur in our weather are going to accelerate proportionally to the rate in which human activity is accelerating. Unfortunately, the portion of the human race which is causing the most disruption during the course of their materialstic pursuits does not appear to be willing to slow down any time soon. Even if we entirely ceased our technological activities tomorrow it would be too late... Mother Nature works on a larger scale and moves slower, but her corrective actions will eventually catch up with us.

Recent El Nino events are becoming more severe and lasting longer. By the time we go through two more solar maximums with the hole in the ozone layer increasing, and no end in sight for greenhouse gases, I think El Nino will be a permanent condition and much larger in scale. Floods like those that occurred in Venezeula last year and droughts like those occurring all over the world now will be the average weather by that time. Not to mention hurricanes, snowstorms and tornadoes more intense and frequent than ever before in human history. I think water suitable for drinking will someday be more valuable than gasoline and people will kill for it.

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), July 23, 2000.


You should do another discussion on computers on airplanes again, like you did several months ago. That was really good.

If you were right, a lot more planes would have fallen from the sky by now.

Put some cool pictures in again, too.

Keep up the good work and keep providing the good laughs.

-- CJS (, July 23, 2000.

Those planes were all grounded for inspection and repairs. Did it ever occur to you that maybe they fixed them, and that is why "a lot more planes" have not "fallen from the sky by now"? Guess not.

You should learn to have some manners and stay on the subject of this discussion and quit being a troll. You're nothing but an idiot CJS, and you prove it every time you appear on this forum. Have a nice day, asswipe. :-)

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), July 23, 2000.

haha FS you crack me up

-- cin (cin@cin.cin), July 23, 2000.

Mr. Slippery,

The article states...

"Ice at the center of Greenland is becoming slightly thicker. But as it turns out, that progression is the result of weather changes related to the loss of ice over the remainder of the island, NASA scientists said."

If you know a little bit about weather, this makes perfect sense. As the ice near the edges of the island melt away due to warmer ocean temperatures, the edge becomes more like a steep cliff rather than a gradual upward slope. When warm moist air currents blow toward the island, they now rise faster and higher as they hit the cliff. As this air rises up and cools more dramatically, it is more likely to precipitate over the center of the island. Before the edges began to melt away, the air was more likely to smoothly flow over the island, distributing precipitation more evenly.

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), July 23, 2000.

Hawk, I know this is not quite your original point, but I thought of your thread when I ran across an article called "The Great Dying" over on MSN this morning. bt=pu&btu=

This is the last paragraph:

While researchers continue to investigate the mystery of the Great Dying, Erwins interest lies in what happened afterward  call it the Great Rebirth. He would like to use the clues provided by the P-T extinction to examine how life rebuilt itself after such a tremendous setback, examining the nature of the plants and animals that survived and the timing and patterns of their rebound. The P-T extinctions lessons of recovery, Erwin notes, may be more important to understanding lifes history than the crisis itself.

The Permian-Triassic extinction was the most fundamental change in life from the origin of life up until today, Erwin says. What you see in a tidepool today is based on what lived and died 251 million years ago.

I couldn't help but think of that cliche: the more things change the more they stay the same.

-- (, July 23, 2000.

Hawk's asshole buddy as in "birds of a feather bull shit together":

--------------- Everywhere- words of peace, and preparation for war.

Numerous reports that China is planning a blockade of Taiwan - in October and that Russia (Putin) has signed a treaty committing Russian Navy to assist if the US tries to intervene with the Seventh Fleet.

That Russia has moved 50,000 troops to the border with Turkey. Supposed reason (according to Stratfor) is just an internal disagreement between high level bureaucrats in Russia. Highly unlikely. No question Putin is in control. Russia has also reportedly made a new treaty with Iraq. Look now at the following. Highly significant in view of that.

"The London Times reports: "Iraqi infantry and mechanized army divisions are poised on the edge of Kurdistan, awaiting President Saddam Hussein's order to strike in a blow that would challenge America's pledge to protect the Kurds. The Iraqi attack plan, entitled Operation Al-Khassas Al-Adel (Justice), is aimed at capturing Suleimaniya, a large Kurdish city, and two dams that supply water to central Iraq. The plan was disclosed by an Iraqi military intelligence source who recently defected. He said it entailed three divisions of infantry, accompanied by three armoured divisions, driving north from three separate locations and sweeping towards Suleimaniya, headquarters of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), headed by Jalal Talabani. Tanks and armoured personnel carriers had been moved into place south of Chamchamal, Kufri and Kallar. A total of 800 tanks and armoured personnel carriers had joined the three divisions, each numbering 12,000 men, with Republican Guard divisions in reserve."

I do not have the original source for the above news article. My source is: topicID=7725.topic

----------------------- A reader sends me the following:

Crisis in Iran: Regime is split on Hizbullah's future, rocked by violent protests


Mainstream Iranians join students against regime

NICOSIA -- The Iranian regime is split over Hizbullah's role in southern Lebanon, and the divide between supreme leader Ali Khamenei and PresidentMohammed Khatami was also spotlighted by violent demonstrations on the streets of Teheran Saturday.

The clashes, which took place outside the campus of Teheran University when members of a vigilante force organized by the regime attacked pro-democrac demonstrators, have been accompanied by renewed attacks by clerics against the pro-reform administration of President Mohammed Khatami. The Khatami-Khamenei split was telegraphed when both sides gave Hizbullah leaders conflicting orders for the organization's future.

Iranian supreme leader Ali Khamenei urged a visiting Hizbullah delegation to resume attacks against Israel, Middle East Newsline reported. Arab diplomatic sources said Khamenei pledged support for the renewed Hizbullah campaign and his aides proposed that the battle resume after Lebanese parliamentary elections conclude in September.

But Khatami urged Hizbullah to lay down its arms and become a political movement in Lebanon. The London-based A-Sharq Al Awsat reported on Friday that Khatami said Hizbullah ended its military role when Israel withdrew from southern Lebanon on May 24.

Khatami was quoted as telling Hizbullah secretary-general Hassan Nasrallah that the organization no longer has a reason to fight Israel and a renewed campaign would only harm Lebanon. The president said Hizbullah must change its priorities.

At issue, Arab diplomatic sources said, is Iran's role in Lebanon. Khatami, the sources said, has pledged to international figures such as United Nations secretary-general Kofi Annan that Teheran will not block efforts to restore order along the Israeli-Lebanese border.

On Friday, UN envoy Terje Larsen held talks in Beirut with Lebanese leaders. Israeli officials have complained to the UN that Beirut has violated Security Council resolution 425 in refusing to impose order in southern Lebanon. The result, officials said, is that Hizbullah has organized Lebanese to throw stones at Israelis along the border and cut the fence separating the two countries.

In Teheran, vigilantes kicked demonstrators in the face during a demonstration called to mark the anniversary of the July 9, 1999, raid on a Teheran University dormitory. Police tried to separate the two sides. At one point, police opened fire.

The students rampaged through Teheran, smashing windows, burning pro-Islamic newspapers and chanting slogans against the regime.

"Death to the clerical government," the students chanted. "Death to dictators."

At least a dozen students were hurt in the clash, a year after six days of student protests throughout the country. Officials also reported that students were arrested.

A pro-reform group, the Office for Fostering Unity, said the student violence was not authorized. "The demonstrators were not students,'' the group said in a statement. ''They had nothing to do with this incident."

Iranian President Mohammed Khatami warned against a crackdown against freedom of expression. "To be strong does not mean that if the people don't follow the establishment they should be suppressed by the use of force," Khatami said. "Public dissatisfaction will eventually lead to explosion." Earlier, Khatami told Hizbullah secretary-general Hassan Nasrallah that Israel plans to use any renewed Shi'ite campaign to wage harsh strikes insides Lebanon. The Iranian president said such a prospect has raised concern in Beirut and around Lebanon.

"Khatami warned the Hizbullah resistance movement against the enemies' efforts to sow the seeds of discord among the Lebanese and stressed the need for the Hizbullah leaders to try to remove the existing concerns and fears in Lebanon and spoil the enemies' conspiracies," the official Islamic Republic News Agency said in a report on Saturday's meeting. Monday, July 10, 2000 -----------------------

Yes, the above scenario is the exact one that I have been predicting for weeks and giving you details about the philosophy and personality of the Iranian president versus the members of the Council of Guardians. I have sought to show that the Iranian President is a die-hard, dyed in the wool, dogmatic Moslem Fundamentalist, with zip love for Israel, but even that is relative to the attitudes of at least some members of the Council of Guardians. ---------------------------

Extremists everywhere. Each with their own agenda. But some, like Hamas, and the President of North Korea, this week have suddenly started talking peace, whereas they have never even intimated it before. Let us hope they are sincere.

At the same time this week, extensive preparations are being made for war between Palestine and Israel. ON BOTH SIDES. People are receiving flyers urging them to stock food and water.

This list just goes on and on around the world. Such intense activity that I could list a dozen things more. Whereas before, I had to search for items to find and indicate the trend, there are now many, many out there to be seen. It would be a long and lengthy recitation to present just a fraction. Also an exercise in futility, because those who do not have eyes to see will simply not see.

Undoubtedly, I am preaching to the converted. Those who read this doomer's shoutings already know these things. August 10th, is another interesting date. Beyond that, we may be into October. One never knows. It can be sooner or later. But now Train Time is Anytime. We are in the tunnel. The train is behind us and the only way out is at the other end.

"Peace, peace", the whistle may blow as it comes out of Camp David, and the leaders there surely want it, but while they have problems and enemies it is not the men who sit across the tables - it is those extremists in their own camps who sit behind their backs.

The time has come.

Peace and love, Bruce Beach survival@web

-- anon (, July 23, 2000.

August 10th, is another interesting date.

Okay, what's supposed to happen on August 10th, besides my insurance payment coming due?

-- (, July 23, 2000.

Poor ol' Hawk. Still trying to peddle his end of the world vision. Y2K didn't do it for him - so now he's trying a new tactic. One can almost here him say "damn it, I'm sure I'll be right about one thing in my life - I hope..."

-- Y2K Pro (, July 23, 2000.


Very cool article, thanks. The difference between us and other species is that we aren't willing to live in harmony with the rest of nature, we want to control it. By doing so we are likely to precipitate events which will prematurely cause our extinction, as well as many other species.

anon / bruce beach / creeper / whoever the hell you are,

That is the most irrelevant rambling bunch of crap I've ever seen. You must be creeper, that's the kind of crap he rants about.

Y2K "Pro-Hole",

Not trying to prove anything, just having some fun with a little speculation and intelligent conversation, something of which you are incapable. You see, those of us with an I.Q. above 60 like to think about things other than new ways to pick our asshole and eat our excrement. *snicker* :-)

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), July 23, 2000.

Something that always is apparent in this topic is denial.

Yes we will die,,,, but there is a chance that the cheeseburgers and automobiles will run out first.

Recycle is no panacea, reduction and significantly cleaner technology is a better solution.

-- Will (, July 23, 2000.

Oh and FS,, yes we are going to die but I prefer to do it before my children. I will do everything I can to make sure there are in a sustainable position before I leave.

-- Will (, July 23, 2000.

"those of us with an I.Q. above 60"

Like having an IQ of 61 is something to brag about, little testicle man!

-- whore-shit hawkey (, July 23, 2000.

Lol, try 142 dickwad! You look like a neanderthal man next to me. As for my testicles... as much as you would love to try, you couldn't even fit one of them in your mouth. I'm a stud, and a genius stud at that. Eat your heart out, retard! Don't cry though, maybe you'll do better in your next life... that is, IF they allow you to come back as a HUMAN!!! ROTFL! :-)

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), July 23, 2000.

"Recycle is no panacea, reduction and significantly cleaner technology is a better solution."

I was simply using "recycling" as a glaring example. I never said (nor did I ever believe) it was the "be-all and end-all" to the world's problems. But it's at least part of a solution and one that, IMO, is the easiest for the masses to accomplish.

-- Patricia (, July 24, 2000.

I understand Patricia, I was not preaching to you but rather trying to point out that recycle is an ointment people put on their bruised conscience'. Recycle is good but it is not a reason to feel vindicated.

-- Will (, July 25, 2000.

Hawk-Vulgar, but very funny. ROTFLMAO. Oh, and my prediction is there will not be a big die-off this century. If I am wrong and dead, please make sure their are heirs around who know of my prediction and send them to my grave so they can step on it and laugh at me. Haha.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), July 25, 2000.

what about AIDS in Africa

-- richard (, July 25, 2000.

Hawk-Vulgar, but very funny. ROTFLMAO. ---FutureShock

True, it is vulgar ... so why am I laughing too? Hawk, you certainly are a character! What would we do without you?

-- Debra (, July 25, 2000.

Will: That's true. It simply amazes me that recycling is probably one of the simplest things someone can do (while not the best or the most), yet people complain about it. I always thought it was a good "start", but I've seen so much resistance. And it just makes no sense; it's not like it's an imposition or anything; I mean, you're throwing the stuff out anyway, what's the big deal if you SEPARATE it?

Heaven forbid you actually ask them to REDUCE; it's like pulling teeth. The shame is that there *are* some easy answers as you mentioned, but it comes down to changing a mindset.

-- Patricia (, July 25, 2000.

Hawk, all the news stories you cited are about storms, drought and floods. When I look at history I cannot find any evidence that mortality due to storms or floods is more than a tiny blip in the earth's population, a blip so small it doesn't even register beyond a small local area. Even after a war (that notorious ravager of whole countries) the population recovers with astonishing rapidity - usually a decade or less.

The real drivers of mortality are famine and epidemic disease. Nothing else is remotely in their league. It takes about 100 years for populations to adjust to a novel epidemic disease. Famines due to weather are usually severe, but temporary, while famines due to desertification of productive land are semi-permanent. When the topsoil up and blows away the local population drops quickly and does not recover.

So, based on your selection of news stories, I guess you are pinning your prediction on widespread, continuing drought in all of the food-producing areas of the world. Not just temporary drought, but a deep climatic change that severely impinges on the world's food supply, cutting it by roughly 85% over a long term!

I don't see it. A drop from 6 billion to 1 billion in just 25 years is in no way indicated by the evidence you presented. That's way too steep a die off to be caused by anything visible on a 25 year horizon. Even if war, plague and famine get going in a really big way I don't see your numbers being right. Seems like you just pulled them out of a hat.

-- Brian McLaughlin (, July 25, 2000.

Not that you're missing the point, Hawk, but all your links point to climate (change) observations. That's a problem which will soon fix itself as we begin to burn lesser amounts of hydrocarbon fuels in the very near future. A very interesting thread was on here recently THE MYTH OF SPARE CAPACITY

But like every other thread here with this observation, it was immediately rebutted by a limp wrist flip (remember Cory?) or non sequitur and fell to the bottom of the list, while Ceeper and religious threads draw volumes of response. You guys just ain't serious.

Read this Convince Sheet (especially the long version with all the links). Guaranteed to simplify your worrying.

Of course Patricia has it exactly right: "... it comes down to changing a mindset." And that's why we're doomed.

-- (Uberdoomer@ttitude.bad), July 25, 2000.

I understand Hawk now...he trolls himself, then if anyone should can him on it, he can claim it was his "troll"...not really him that said that. How pathetic.

Let's see....hawky claims he was 6'4" 240 and turned out to be 4'6" 140.....NOW he claims an IQ of 142 (not too good by the way...mines 178 and I'm just average) let's see......what would hawky's 142 be in REAL terms?......68.....74.....????.....

-- (, July 25, 2000.

"When I look at history I cannot find any evidence that mortality due to storms or floods is more than a tiny blip in the earth's population"

When you look at history do you see any other industrial and technological revolutions or use of the automobile and jet aircraft that equal those in the last 100 years?

You don't get it. The Earth is getting hot from our recent activity, and it's going to get a lot hotter. The storms that are coming are unlike any that have ever occurred on the face of this planet before, because they were created by man.

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), July 25, 2000.

"I understand Hawk now...he trolls himself, then if anyone should can him on it, he can claim it was his "troll"...not really him that said that. How pathetic.

Let's see....hawky claims he was 6'4" 240 and turned out to be 4'6" 140.....NOW he claims an IQ of 142 (not too good by the way...mines 178 and I'm just average) let's see......what would hawky's 142 be in REAL terms?......68.....74.....????.....

-- (, July 25, 2000. "

Very funny jerkoff! Ask OTFR if you don't believe me asshole. Idiots like you make me laugh, nothing but a retard troll. LOL!!!

-- Hawk (, July 25, 2000.

?????Very funny jerkoff! Ask OTFR if you don't believe me asshole. Idiots like you make me laugh, nothing but a retard troll. LOL!!! -- Hawk (, July 25, 2000. ????????????

Funny but that is the effect ***your**** "words of wisdom" usually have on most.

-- Bad Ass Dude Hates Doomers (, July 25, 2000.

Oooooh, you're scaring me Creeper! You're such a "Bad Ass"!! ROTFL!!

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), July 25, 2000.

>> You don't get it. The Earth is getting hot from our recent activity, and it's going to get a lot hotter. The storms that are coming are unlike any that have ever occurred on the face of this planet before <<

Yup. The primary effect of global warming (no matter what the cause is - for you doubters that it is human activity) will be more energetic weather. I "get" that part of it. But I am dumb enough I need someone to draw me a picture, to connect the dots...

How are these storms that are "unlike any that have ever occurred" going to go about their work of reducing earth's human population by 5 billion?

I know storms can kill people. But how will storms kill that many people?

Will they blow people off the face of the earth? Or make them voluntarily stay indoors until they starve? Or will windsurfing become the rage so that five people out of every six gets their neck broken?

Make me believe. Show me.

-- Brian McLaughlin (, July 25, 2000.


Simple, in one word... water.

Water is going to be the biggest problem. The most devastating thing about severe weather is the water. In the tropical and moderate zones there will be hurricanes and typhoons larger than ever before, creating massive floods that will spread disease and make water unsuitable for drinking. When it isn't flooding there will be severe droughts and temperatures too hot to survive. In the northern and polar zones there will be snowstorms so severe that people will be buried alive.

Just imagine taking the weather we have today and making it ten times more extreme, happening every day, all over the planet. That is the way it will be within 20 years. You may be able to hide underground to avoid being directly killed, but you will eventually die of thirst or starve to death.

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), July 25, 2000.

poor hawk...he wants so bad for there to be massive disaters and death and carnage....y2k didn't provide it, so now it is "global warming".

keep trying, hawk. you will eventually convince someone....somewhere....that you are right. in the meantime, can I interest you in a subterranian schoolbus?......

-- Bruce Beached (gotta@sell.dem.buses!), July 26, 2000.

CReeP, It's subterranean

-- Can I interest you in a (Spell@Checker.yet?), July 26, 2000.

not creep (if you mean CPR)

Believe me, the average goofball doomer that this thread attracts can't even read subterranian, let alone know what it means!. I seriously considered using a phonetic help out the mental pigmys like squawky. Spell check ain't worth the effort for the moth-eaten retards....

Oh well, their money is still green....come on doom sheeple....BUY SPACE IN MY UNDERGROUND BUS!

-- Bruce Beached (gotta@sell.dem.buses!), July 26, 2000.

times decisions for war are made in The Councils of the Mighty sometimes decisions for war are made in the Streets by the Rabble.

The following from:

July 25, 2000 19:15 (Israel time) Mofaz: Settlers permitted to fire at Palestinians attacking settlements

Chief of Staff Shaul Mofaz revealed that IDF officers and settlers in the West Bank were given specific orders to take all necessary measures to prevent Palestinian mobs from breaking through the perimeter fence of settlements.

The orders clearly imply that the defenders of the settlements are authorized to shoot with live fire in case of attack.

The Chief of Staff informed the Knesset Foreign Policy and Defense Committee of the orders during an extensive briefing regarding the possible scenarios of clashes with the Palestinians in the event of a collapse of the Camp David summit.

According to military intelligence, broad scale conflagration is expected in the territories if the summit fails. There are clear signs of preparations being made by the Palestinian Authority for armed clashes with the IDF, a senior intelligence officer said, and added that stockpiles of fuel, food and medicine are being prepared to fend off an Israeli siege of Palestinian towns and villages.

According to Mofaz, the Palestinians are preparing for a variety of scenarios and they have intensified their defensive preparations, reinforcing positions and outposts. Mofaz added that it is known that the Palestinian Authority has a large supply of small arms and that there have also been unconfirmed reports of anti-tank missiles entering the Palestinian arsenal. He also said that part of the PA's preparations for a possible conflict with the IDF have involved training sessions for hundreds of teenagers. (Gideon Alon, Ha'aretz Knesset Correspondent ) ----------

Palestinians Call for Intifada Against Israel

GAZA (Reuters) - Hundreds of Palestinians marched through the streets of Gaza City Tuesday calling for a violent uprising against Israel following the collapse of the Camp David peace summit. ``Yes to a new Intifada,44 the Palestinians chanted as they walked toward Palestinian President Yasser Arafat4s Gaza headquarters, waving Palestinian flags in the air.

The Intifada, or Palestinian uprising against Israeli occupation, raged throughout the West Bank and Gaza Strip for seven years, fizzling out in 1993 when Palestinian President Yasser Arafat signed interim peace accords with Israel.

``The Intifada is the solution after peace talks failed to bring refugees and Palestinians a fair solution to their problems,44 said one protester, 35-year-old Mohammed Karoub.

Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak tried during the marathon two-week-long summit to resolve the most intractable issues at the heart of decades of conflict.

The fate of Jerusalem and millions of Palestinian refugees were apparently the main obstacles that led to the failure of the talks. Palestinians said they were relieved that Arafat had stood firm on their demand that East Jerusalem be the capital of a future state and refugees be allowed to return to the homes they fled or were forced to flee in 1948 when Israel was established.

``Your struggle for all of Jerusalem -- refugees4 right of return, sole Israeli withdrawal has proved fruitful,44 Salah Zidan, a member of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, which opposes Arafat4s peace moves, told the crowd.

``Protecting our rights at Camp David left the Israelis to make the peace talks fail,44 Zidan said. ---------------

Hamas calls for continuation of armed struggle against Israel

(IsraelWire-7/25) Hamas leader Sheik Ahmed Yassin on Tuesday repeated recent calls for renewing the armed struggle against Israel following the news of a failure at Camp David II. Yassin called upon PLO Authority (PA) Chairman Yassir Arafat to give the orders to renew attacks against Israel, calling for a Jihad.

Yassin this week added that Hamas would never recognize Israel but was willing to consider a cease-fire and truce if Israel pulled back to the pre-1967 boundaries, turning over all of occupied Jerusalem to serve as the capital of a future Palestinian state.

-------------- And don't forget - Iran's Iraq's Syria's Egypt's (Egyptian General this week said war is inevitable). and other's - Hezzbolah Palestinian Jihad's and still other's views on this.

Could be days. May be weeks. Hope that we have time to do more of the things we are trying to do in preparation. (We are trying- aren't we?)

Peace and love, Bruce Beach survival

-- Beach Ball Brucie (, July 26, 2000.

SAME old SAME old shit: he was probably terrified as a kid that the "bomb" would go off and the only shelter would be some cave. Now he just sees the same thing in any piece of news. Just like all the rest of the Freaking Airhead Doomzies. Note the "home we have do in preparation...???

could be days. May be weeks. Hope that we have time to do more of the things we are trying to do in preparation. (We are trying- aren't we?)

-- Beach Ball Brucie (, July 26, 2000.

Tilting ever so carefully forward in her rocking chair she leans over, head tilted toward FS and gently replies:

"Well I'll be damned we are ALL gonna die", with that she slowly begins rocking and a watchin. :-)

xoxo, sumerous

-- consumer (, July 27, 2000.

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