sick goat--anyone know why?

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I have a little doe who is ill, and no one here has any ideas. The goat came from auction 3 months ago and has been well until this week. I know nothing about her except she is young and pregnant, due sometime soon, mixed breed. Symptoms are neurological only: head tilt to the left (worse if excited), and twitching eyes (they sort of bounce up and down). She has no sign of infection such as fever, diarrhea, etc. Appetite and behavior are normal except the head. She has had no moldy feed and has been on pasture except for a little gluten or 14% horse sweet feed.

I lost a purebred Nubian doe last year on July 8 from the same symptoms--or maybe the treatment. My vet was treating her for encephalitis with high dose penicillin, and she died after 2 weeks of being ill. Also, she had kidded one week prior to becoming ill. Symptoms were identical, time of year exactly coincides. My instinct says it's a poisonous plant. By the way, we live in northeast Tennessee in the Appalachian foothills, if that helps.

I have treated the goat with CMPK, which is for milk fever, grass tetany, and ketosis; vitamin B complex; ivermectin; Strongid; one dose of procaine penicillin; and one dose of dexamethasone. (No, I don't panic--much.)

If anyone has seen these symptoms before, knows what's wrong, or even has a good guess, I'd really appreciate the help. This is my first question here even though I've been reading for quite awhile, and everyone is so friendly and helpful. Not to mention entertaining and full of great information. Thanks in advance for the help.

-- Teresa (otgonz@bellsouth.net), July 17, 2000

Answers

Seeing if I can get through.

-- Gerbil (ima_gerbil@hotmail.com), July 17, 2000.

Teresa, since this has happened before, and at the same time, check with your county extension office, they should have lists of poisonous plants in your area, and insect emergence/control times. There might be some plant reaching its full potential to poison, or some sort of insect appearing that is being sprayed. They should also either be able to give you some advice on what's wrong with your goat, or bump the information up to your state ag college. If they don't bump it up for you, get the contact names/numbers/addresses. Do it yourself. If they won't even help that much, your vet should know them, even if she or he won't do it. Something is terribly wrong, and you'll need to figure it out, even if it costs you some stamps or phone charges. Gerbil

-- Gerbil (ima_gerbil@hotmail.com), July 17, 2000.

From the symptoms you described and the stage or pregnancy it sound like it could be ketosis. Call your vet. They may be more familiar with it in sheep than goats, but it is the same thing. According to my references ketosis may be trigged by a change in environment or feed, but is more commonly associated with a nutrition deficiency.

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), July 17, 2000.

Sounds like definite CNS symptoms. The 'twitching' eyes are called nystagmus. It is probably making her very dizzy as well. In addition to toxic plants or deficiency it could also be caused by head or spinal trauma. If she is with other goats or sheep and she plays rough or you have a rough head doe or buck it could be from an injury. My guess is the dexamethasone would help that Dianne

-- Dianne (yankeeterrier@hotmail.com), July 17, 2000.

I can check with the Extension Agent tomorrow. Head trauma is unlikely. This goat is extremely wild, so I have had her on a chain in my chicken yard which is bare dirt since I noticed symptoms. She seems much better today, so I tied her out to graze in the pasture. I'm not going to let her loose to browse until I know what caused the problem. It also seems unusual that only one of 11 goats is ill, but maybe she just has a taste for something nasty. Hopefully she's better because her system is clearing the toxin, and not because of the penicillin and dexamethasone last night. Thanks for the help.

-- Teresa (otgonz@bellsouth.net), July 17, 2000.


Teresa if you are seeing improvement than I would continue with the penn and dex. Dexamenthazone is a powerful steriod and is used for 6 days only, usually at full strength the first three days then at 1/2 dose the second three. I kind of doubt that this would be a plant poison, rather thiamin dificiency brought on this time of year from freshening and then grain feeding of Horse Feed with animal products in it that cause rumen acidosis. To the above meds I would also give her B1, you can use the tablets from a drug store, crushed up, sweetened with Kero and syringed in the mouth. I like to make molassas balls with meds, oatmeal and molassas, the goats love them. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), July 17, 2000.

Vicki, what is Kero? Here, it's an abbreviation for kerosene, but I'm about as certain as I can be that you wouldn't be proposing to feed THAT to a goat.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), July 18, 2000.

I believe it's karo syrup ? It would be something sweet , never kerosine . I'm sure someone else or Vicki will write back.

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), July 18, 2000.

teresa,I lived in Tennessee and know there are several poisonous plants there. but i am wondering if you have a selenium deficiency there. I lived in Jackson County and we had it there. also I like to give a probiotic to my goats after treating with antibiotics to help the rumen get back to work. Hope your goat is better, usually with a poison plant problem the goat dies before you can do anything besides yell for help so figure you have a medical one. karen

-- Karen Mauk (dairygoatmama@hotmail.com), July 18, 2000.

Thanks Patty! Yes Karo Syrup...........sorry Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), July 18, 2000.


Thanks to all who answered; some of you even went to the trouble to e-mail when the server was down. The majority opinion was ketosis, even though the description didn't fit my book description exactly. I learned a couple of years ago that none of my animals read and don't follow the instructions at all.

The goat is no worse, sometimes a little better. Last night she kidded--first one I've had in the dark. The baby was born dead. Not deformed, exactly, but sort of twisted back on itself. It was breech, and my husband pulled it for me. I couldn't have on this one. I was afraid he was going to injure her, and afterwards we could see why. She's such a little thing, and the head and shoulders came at the same time. Ouch.

Still treating her for everthing I can think of, but concentrating on the ketosis. I hope she makes it, even though I dread the thought of milking another goat who hates me.

You all are so helpful, and I really appreciate your time and expertise. My local vet is prompt and makes housecalls (he's very expensive), but he doesn't know much about goats. Our "goat" vet is super, but he doesn't come out, and I didn't want to stress the goat more by travelling an hour and a half to his office. He's good by phone, but probably no better than all of you.

Thanks again.

-- Teresa (otgonz@bellsouth.net), July 19, 2000.


Sorry to hear ou lost the kid , its hard even when mama isn't your favorite .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), July 19, 2000.

Sorry to hear you lost the kid , its hard even when mama isn't your favorite .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), July 19, 2000.

Theresa:

You really need to ask yourself if this doe is more trouble than she is worth. If the answer is yes, than take her back to the auction or put her in the freezer or something. Temperment is a big culling factor for me. I give my cow hardcases names such as The Queen Bitch (and since she hung around with a group of equally tempermental cows) it became The Queen Bitch and her Court. They left the next opportunity. Had a Jersey cow I dearly loved but she got milk fever two years in a row. Even a nice calf has to go a long way to make up a $100 vet bill. She went. Had a Brahman bull so gentle I could sit on him when he was laying down and may have been able to train him to ride. His problem is a barbware fence was no barrier to go playing with the neighbor's bull. Last time he did it was on the morning of the livestock sale so he also went to work for someone else. Remember when you buy at auction you are likely buying someone else's culls.

-- stupid (scharabo@aol.com), July 19, 2000.


I've been searching my homeopathic library for the symptoms you described. One remedy which mentions the head being twisted to the left is Chelidonium Majus. Chelidonium has very good effect on the liver. I have some homeopathic Chelidonium and I would be happy to send you some to see if it would help your doeling. Another remedy which mentions also the eye thing as well as the head & neck being twisted backward, is Cicuta Virosa, or water hemlock. Given the position of the dead baby, perhaps your doe managed to ingest some water hemlock. However, even if that is not the case, the great thing about homeopathy is that symptoms guide: similar symptoms can be cured, regardless of cause. I don't have any Cicuta Virosa, but you can order it from homeopathyovernight. I will be glad to communicate with you privately about how to administer homeopathic remedies -- it important to know that they are not just herbal tinctures nor are they like vitamin supplements.

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), July 21, 2000.


Sorry I haven't been back to update on the goat. Very busy. It seems she does have ketosis or toxemia, and I sure wish I knew about it last year when I lost my very first ever goat, a wonderful, spoiled rotten Nubian. I must have caught it early enough, because she is slowly improving. Made the hour drive to "the city" yesterday and picked up some Keto-gel from the Co-op. Maybe it will work better than my homemade high-protein/high-calorie concoction.

Ken--why 'stupid'? Just curious. I'm a terrible sucker for needy animals. I bought a little doe once at the flea market that had been tied in the yard her whole life. She didn't have hooves-she had sleds. Terrible. Bought her for $40, trimmed her feet, fed and brushed her, and sold her a week later for $55. (Didn't have time to get attached.) I went to the auction with my brother so he could buy some weedeaters, and promised myself I wouldn't buy anything, but there was something about that ugly little brown thing...

Funny thing is, this little goat--60 or 70 pounds--is really easy to milk, and is up to a quart twice a day after only a week. She produced a gallon of colostrum for my neighbor's freezer. She's still wild and won't let me touch her, but she jumps right up on the milking stand--even lifts one of her rear legs for me to milk--and stands patiently until I'm finished. My prior milking experience was with a large pygmy who needed to be milked when she decided to wean her kids, got too full, stepped on her very long udder, and had a cut on one teat. She hates me, always hated me. It's a good thing she's small, because I can hold her back end with one arm while I milk with the other. So this little doe now is great.

Also bought a doe from an acquaintance, pregnant, who would not allow me to touch her (they know it drives me crazy). After 8 months, and two babies, she finally walked up to me, and I can't keep her away now.

I can eat all my other animals, but not my goats. I don't have a problem eating goat, just not mine. I'd have to shoot them or sell them if they didn't work out.

Again, thanks to everyone. You were all great.

-- Teresa (otgonz@bellsouth.net), July 26, 2000.


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