KING-SOLOMAN! who said,at the END-of his life[i,ve done it all-had it-all-i-denyed myself-nothing] it was ALL-VANITY!! so WHAT is life all about?->..to KNOW YOUR MAKER!!

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), July 13, 2000

Answers

Actually, al, to me, Life is all about Respect. Respect for one's self. Respect for **all** others, not just the ones you like, and especially those with whom you disagree. Respect for the Earth and its non-human inhabitants. It's kind of like the thread Future Shock posted yesterday about treating every person as if it were their last day in this life.

It's not easy, and as humans we slip and fall at times, but with a bit of effort it can be done. And it makes one a much better person from the inside out. And isn't that all that really matters?

(I know you have a sense of humor...when I first saw the title of the thread, my immediate reaction was "George Bailey". [g])

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), July 14, 2000.

Patricia:

"Respect for the Earth and its non-human inhabitants"

I wish I could do this, but everywhere I look lately, I see ants. I don't WANT ants in my cabinets. I don't WANT ants on my stove. I don't WANT to worry about stepping on a fire-ant mound when I walk in my backyard. Those "creatures" just don't play fair, IMO.

Everyone here knows by now that I have an 87 year old mother who lives nearby. Well, that no-charge male whore with whom I live had a problem with his knees recently...something created by exercising incorrectly at the club [with a little old-age thrown in]. My mom rubs aloe-vera gel on any little aching part of her body, and I'd recently purchased a BIG bottle for her. We keep it in her little refrigerator, and she pours from THAT bottle into a small bottle that she keeps by her bed. When I told her about his knees, she INSISTED that he rub some aloe-vera on them. It's her panacea.

EVERY day for about a week, mom would call and ask about those knees. EVERY day for about a week, she reminded me that she had a BIG bottle of aloe-vera and that I should take some home to help this malady. Stuck with my daughter's car that doesn't run as well as mine, SO took me to mom's to bring her supplies. After they did the customary hug, etc., she reminded me that I needed to take some aloe-vera home for his knees.

I hadn't brought my own container, but found an old spice bottle in one of her cabinets. I rinsed it out and poured some aloe into it. Once home, I put the bottle on the table. Sometime later, I suggested that it should be put to use. SO looked at it and said, "This has ants in it." "Ants? Are you sure those aren't little particles of the plant from which the gel came?" *I* couldn't tell. I couldn't even tell wearing my glasses AND using a magnifying glass, and my mom's vision is even worse than my own.

Yesterday, my daughter came by. I asked her to use her 20-20's on that bottle and tell me what she saw. She said, "There are ants floating in that." I said, "Are you SURE?" "Yes, mom...I see the segments of the body, the little legs, and the antennae. Where'd you get this?" "From grandma's bottle of aloe vera." "Call her right now and tell her to stop using it."

Later that night, I called my mom and suggested that her aloe vera had ants in it. She said, "There are no ants in it. There's nothing crawling around here." I said, "They're dead, but I don't think you want to smear them on your body." Call me prejudiced, but I didn't want my mom smearing dead ants on her body any more than I'd want her spreading LIVE ants on her body." Anyway, she felt confident that her aloe had no ants, so we began to wonder if the spice jar had a crust that wouldn't rinse out of dead ants at the bottom. I'm bringing a small clean jar there today for a second sample before I rush back to the Health Food store declaring that they sold me gel with ants.

Sorry I went on so long about ants, but I spared you the story of an ant walking across my keyboard platform.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), July 14, 2000.

Oh, glad you DIDN'T spare me the story, Anita. I have a problem with those little buggers myself (and any little bugger, come to think of it).

Besides, you just had me laughing out loud.....here in my office. (I needed that.)

Tell Mom to STOP using the aloe (steal it from her, if necessary). Jeez, it's giving me the willies just thinking about it.

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), July 14, 2000.

Another thread, but what the hell--do ants have souls? (lil teeny ones). Do dogs have souls? Do plants? Does any non-hunan life form have a soul?

If there is intelligent life elsewhere in this bounded-but-infinite universe, do these creatures have souls. Did Jesus die for their sins too? One universe, same Creator. If humans on earth have grace then coneheads on Remulon must have the same grace. Al?

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), July 14, 2000.

Lars,

It's my understanding that the Janes in India do not sweep their sidewalks so as not to harm even the ants. I'd like to see al-'s take on ant souls as well.

'Nita,

There could be powerful medicine in those ants, maybe that's what curing your mom! You could be onto something now...

"'Nita's Critter Creme - Cures What Ails Ya!"

-- flora (***@__._), July 14, 2000.

I have as much respect for the Earth's other creatures as they have for me. If I can eat them, I do. If I need to use them as tools, I do. Otherwise, I'm not overly malicious towards them, but I don't mind killing off bugs or rodents to protect my domicile any more than they'd mind doing the same.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), July 14, 2000.

I can see my words were not really understood (sigh...). How does this sound?

Respect for the Earth and all its non-human inhabitants as long as they don't try to attack/invade your domicile or your Mom's aloe- vera gel, or if they can be used as tools or food.

Sheesh you people are picky ;-)

BTW, Frank (and speaking of "picky") (a) as I recall, the Bible doesn't make that "domicile" distinction (I seem to recall a passage about having respect for all of God's creatures, though I cannot cite the specific reference); and, (b) please cite an animal that would use *you* as a "tool". (And I'm not talking "animal rights" here; I'm not a vegetarian, blah, blah, blah. I honestly tried to think of an animal that would use a human as a "tool" and couldn't come up with one. "Food" isn't a "tool".)

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), July 14, 2000.

GOD told -adam too take -dominion of earth. too bad adam blew it! yes patricia, there is a scripTure,that say,s be kind to your beast! i think that meant domesticated-kind.i mean DAVID slew LION & A BEAR! alot of the pesty-nasty-meany kinda -critter,s are a RESULT OF THE FALL!thorns & thistles=the curse!but hey-there,s coming a NEW-EARTH! SATAN-SCREWED EVERYTHING-UP!we we,re meant to live in paradise!! **GOD BLESS-THE KIND & GENTLE-SOUL,S*

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), July 14, 2000.

Patricia,

Hey, enjoy it while it lasts, picky is fun sometimes! :-)

I was making the distinction of domicile because that's what generally applies *to me*, but I agree, if I was in charge of a grain silo or something, I'd be more than happy to poison off all the rats and squirrels there too, if necessary. My species needs the food, and although we don't need to think of it this way when we have large surplusses, it's a battle to get it.

To "b", I was thinking of "creatures" to mean "life", and not just animals. An example of a plant using people would be for *transportation*. People swallow small seeds which then get planted (in fertilizer no less) at a distant site. And with animals, you obviously have never met a cat-owner. :-) I suppose it's really what your definition of *being food* is. If you want to boil biological life down to the basics, there really is the quest for and consumption of food, reproduction, and protection from dying (as food or from the elements). You could say that some bugs (T. vaginalis is coming to mind ((non-viral))) directly use people for *transportation* from one host to the next as well as as food at the time. I guess that'd be using us for a non-food purpose, although again, their ultimate GOAL is to use us for food.

FWIW, at the time I originally posted, I was actually thinking of finches using sticks to get at ants in a hole.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), July 14, 2000.

Al, I really don't think God made any distinctions. As to David and the lion and the bear, weren't they being "threatening"? That would then constitute protecting one's life and I think a case could be made for that (I'm no expert on scripture, nor the interpretation thereof).

Frank, NO ONE is "pickier" than I am (I'm the one who can't stand directions on shampoo bottles - UGH). To me, "picky" can be a "hobby" at times :-)

I understand about the rats and such where silos and the like are concerned. Like I said to Al, I think a (biblical) case can be made there.

As to animals using humans as tools, I hadn't even considered "transportation", but yes, that would qualify, wouldn't it? Thanks.

I've seen finches using the sticks, and I think you can also include all the materials birds use to build nests (and the materials used by beavers to make dens and dams, etc.). I was also thinking of the sea otters (cutest things on the planet) using rocks to crack open clams and such. Pretty amazing, when you think about it.

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), July 14, 2000.

I think animals do have souls. It's just something I feel in my heart.

I do remember reading a scripture that states that it's a sin for a man to keep an animal tied up or contained and not provide for it food and water and kindness. Wish I could think of where it was exactly. If anyone knows, please let me know. But I DO know it's in there.

As far as animals using humans for tools...I would have to say that my cats pretty much use me. They send me off to work, they send me off to buy them food, they let me know exactly when they want me to do something for them. All the while they lie around, lounging in the sunshine and looking pretty. But hey, I like it that way. They give me much love in return. =0)

-- cin (cin@cin.cin), July 14, 2000.

Patricia,

You know what always got me about the sea otters? I've always seen them floating on their backs and bashing a rock onto the clam (or whatever) on their stomach. I don't know how much force it takes to open up one of those shells by bashing it with a rock, but it *seems* like it would be painful to do against your stomach.

But then if the reward wasn't greater than the cost, they probably wouldn't do it.

Love the sea,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), July 15, 2000.