I asked this question on one of "al-d's" threads, but I'd like to get a wider view point (No offense al-d ).

al-d. I need to know something and I figure you seem to know a lot about the bible. Can you answer this: Is there anywhere in the bible that talks about making deals with the devil ...?

You know the "Devil & Daniel Webster" and "Crossroad" and "Faust" type stories? Is there any mention in the bible that this is a sin (or whatever). Is your soul really yours to sell?

And, say you do make a deal with the devil, say to have tons of money, and then only use that money to support charities and you, yourself live modestly, then could the devil still take your soul? I mean, you didn't really do anything wrong? Right?

Just wondering...

Mar

-- Not now, not like this (AgentSmith0110@aol.com), July 12, 2000

Answers

The concept of soul depends on religion. Since religion is false and stupid, there are no souls. But if someone thinks I have one and wants to buy it, make me an offer. I also have some swampland in Florida for sale. Hurry, hurry, offer may not last.

-- A (A@AisA.com), July 12, 2000.

AisA: I'm only asking cause I like "deal with the devil" stories. Everyone seems to be able to get out of it in the end. If you think that once you die, that's it--kaput--then if I were you I'd definately make a deal.

I can't decide. Somedays I think I have a soul. Somedays I think "no way."

I'm just wondering if it's "wrong" to make a deal if you do good things with it? I'm also wondering if in the bible God *specifically* forbids this kind of deal making.

-- yada, yada (AgentSmith0110@aol.com), July 12, 2000.

Agent,

Webster didn't get out did he? I thought he turned "pious" and got carried away anyhow in the end (but it has been a long time since I read it). If you took the money and gave it away, you are still getting something, you're just giving it away (sort of like if you take out a loan on a credit card YOU still have to pay the bank back even if you give the money away), so I'd think your obligation would still stand.

OTOH "they" say that a true repentance even on one's deathbed will lead to salvation, so I'd say *IN THEORY* you could make a deal with the Devil and still be saved. BUT, I'd also think anyone that stupid would not truly be repentant at the time of their death and so would end up in the hot place. What could you really ask for that would be worth eternity, given the fact that the Devil could twist whatever you asked for into something you wouldn't want?

Agent, you also said,

If you think that once you die, that's it--kaput--then if I were you I'd definately make a deal.

If THE DEVIL actually PROVED HE EXISTED to you to your satisfaction to believe he could make you a deal for your soul, wouldn't it be pretty obvious that you really HAD a soul and you wouldn't be Kaput after death? Personally, I'd say the Devil showing up to me in person would be a pretty big incentive to change how I was living my life.

A,

Remember a false premise can logically lead to any conclusion once you accept it. (Also, untrusting soul that I am, I highly doubt you have Florida swampland for sale).

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), July 12, 2000.

Can you make a deal with an angel and not go to heaven? I haven't seen too many "deal with an angel" stories, though.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), July 12, 2000.

Flint,

Angels don't deal. Period.

Mar,

The primary misconception is that we (humanity) walk a line and can "choose" either Good or Evil, Heaven or Hell. The Bible makes it clear that, by default, we belong to the Devil, and our "fate", (though I shudder to use the word in this context) without the intervention of an Intercessor, is Hell. While "deal with the devil" stories may be fascinating to contemplate, the fact is that the devil has nothing to gain by such hypothetical pacts. It might be more enlightening to consider *why* these stories are fascinating.

Elbow

-- LBO Grise (LBO Grise@aol.com), July 12, 2000.

LOL... you guy's are going to have get to a lot better than this. Which GOD Wrote What Book In What Language?

If there is a hell and a heaven, and do you have to believe in a special way to get to one or the other? Why isn't it written in rock 10 miles high?

Do I have to get down on my knees and worship blindly to some guy that was nailed up to a cross ( maybe ) 2,000 years ago to get to whatever?... will I be damned to hell if I don't?

Will Buba, who believes that if he rubs Blue mud in his belly button will go to heaven, really go to hell for his misbelief?

HEY !!

You really need to look at what you believe to see what might be real.

-- Mr, Slippery (slip@slide.cum), July 12, 2000.

there are MANY-religions--but only-1 SAVIOUR!

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), July 12, 2000.

I'd accept a fake devil's offer as long as he had the cash.

Related -- Would you let a vampire "turn" you?
Positives: youth, long life, and health, rapid recovery from dogbites, splinters, and car crashes.
Negatives: no more laying around on the beach, Buffy wants to put a stake through your heart.

-- A (A@AisA.com), July 13, 2000.

Someone: you said: "the devil would twist what I asked for" Yes, I know. That's why I would be very careful the way I worded my request. I figure it something like this: I want a long life without and difficulties or hardships. (Either that or it would be the longest sentence in the world...!)

Of course, now I need to figure a way to get out of the "deal" at the end of my life...grin!

Flint: LOL, Good Point! (I was wondering where you were)

Elbow: you said "I should consider *why* I find these stories fascinating"

Cause if you ever saw the rockin' jamb session at the end of the movie "Crossroads" then you'd know why...!!! :-) Plus, it's the same as liking The Stand, or Lucifer's Hammer or, or, or... It's pure entertainment, that's all

AisA: LOL

Mar.

-- Not now, not like this (AgentSMith0110@aol.com), July 13, 2000.

Agent,

Please keep in mind I'm doing this as *entertainment* as well, and not trying to convince you of anything, but you said,

I want a long life without and difficulties or hardships.

Sounds like you may end up being turned into a turtle or a parrot in a zoo! Is that what you wanted?

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), July 13, 2000.

I've never belived in a god, angels, devils, or souls, but when I was a kid, I made a private pact with myself that if I ever ran across a wish-granting genie I would be sure to ask for an infinite amount of wishes. I never understood why the couple in the Monkey's Paw didn't simply do that.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), July 13, 2000.

Maybe the Monkey's Paw couldn't be used for meta-wishes.

-- David L (bumpkin@dnet.net), July 13, 2000.

I think it's the skeptic in me. When I first read that story in junior high, I remember asking myself why, after the first wish went awry, the couple wasn't more careful with their wishes, for instance, wishing their son had never died in the first place instead of wishing he wasn't dead. Of course, I realized pretty quickly that that wasn't the point of the story.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), July 13, 2000.

Frank: No, I don't want to end up as a parrot or turtle...more like a house cat if anything . That's why I would have to word my "deal" very, very carefully!

Tarzan: Yeah, I agree! I always thought your first wish should be to wish for 100 more wishes! The Monkey's Paw really freaked me out when I was nine years old! Ugh... So I guess when they say "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it" is the best advice, in any situation...! Oy Vey! (sp?)

Mar.

-- Not now, not like this (AgentSmith0110@aol.com), July 14, 2000.