i have already have goats and i was wondering if i could put some sheep in with the goats. thanks kelly

-- kelly (milkgoats12@aol.com), July 09, 2000

Answers

Kelly, the answer is "probably". A few goats are run with some sheep flocks to help protect the sheep from predators. I've seen a more equal mix of the two animals when they were supervised all day by a shepard (usually a child). The biggest problem you'll face is the particular personalities of the goats you have and the sheep you get. If you can watch them carefully to make sure the sheep aren't bullied away from feed and water, nor gored by a frisky goat, they'll most likely work out a new pecking order and settle down. But be prepared to either seperate the two groups or isolate a trouble maker, just in case. Gerbil

-- Gerbil (ima_gerbil@hotmail.com), July 09, 2000.

Hi Kelli,

When you said, "put in with the goats" what did you mean, in the pasture or in the barn or all the time? I know of many folks who have the sheep in with the goats. I would not recommend it but then this is just me... there are several similarities between the species, and differences. Feeding would be tricky as goats require copper and its toxic to sheep. Then there are some illnesses that can create problems to goats. Its been said CAE started in this manner... read this recently in an old Dairy Goat Journal. Then there is the current debate over scrapie regulations. This disease is a sheep disease that jumped spices to goats. Its difficult to determine if your goat has it or not as there are few visable symptoms. Several states are requiring regulations and involvement in a program. But thats getting into politics there and I'll stop at this point. I have never raised sheep and am not familiar with them, I just know in my humble opinion that it may not be desirable to do so from what I have read. OK... I'm going to duck now in case I offended anyone.

Bernice

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), July 09, 2000.

Our goats turned out sheep who were purchased to eat the grass the goats always left behind, into spoiled pampered brats who wanted grain and hay with the goats, and would lay out in the woods while the goats browsed! The biggest concern is that sheep and goats play king of the world differently. A doe will rise up on her hind feet to butt, while a ewe charges head on. Sheep can knock the wind or hurt a goat just while playing, and ironically my ram and my bucks never fought hard, just the does and ewes. Sheep metabolise copper much faster than goats and need less, they also will carry a much higher worm burden than the goats. Texas A&M's sheep and goat research in Austin has great articles about this. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), July 09, 2000.

The biggest problem of sheep and goats together is their diets. Copper is toxic to sheep and is not in their feed. It's also not in sheep salt blocks.

Copper Toxicity

Cause and Clinical Signs Copper poisoning occurs primarily in sheep when they are fed a cattle or hog mineral or feed. Sheep are very intolerant to copper. The toxic dose in a sheep is 10 mg per head per day. Many common cattle minerals have a calculated dose of 75 mg per head per day. Copper is closely related to molybdenum, and copper toxicity usually occurs when the dietary ratio of copper to molybdenum increases above 6-10:1. Sheep are 10 times more susceptible to copper toxicity than cattle. Copper supplementation may be necessary in areas of excessive molybdenum. It is therefore essential when adding copper to the ration that the molybdenum level in the feed be known and the intake balanced accordingly.

When consumed over a long period of time, excessive copper in the diet is stored in the liver. No damage is caused until a toxic level is reached, at which time there is a hemolytic crisis with destruction of red blood cells.

The clinical signs of chronic copper toxicity appear as an acute hemolytic crisis with death occurring in 24 to 48 hours. The animals suddenly lose their appetites and become weak. On close examination, the mucous membranes and white skin are a yellowish brown color. The pigment hemoglobin released from the destroyed red blood cells causes the urine to be dark red-brown in color. Some animals will show only weakness and pale mucous membranes, if observed very early following massive destruction of red blood cells.

Diagnosis Diagnosis involves a good history and the evidence of clinical signs. Many times a producer is unaware of copper in a mineral or supplement. Copper is usually not listed in the guaranteed analysis. A key is to see the Caution: Do Not Feed to Sheep. Analysis of the feed for copper is helpful in determining copper toxicity. Liver samples can be collected at necropsy for copper level analysis. Liver concentrations associated with copper poisoning are usually greater than 15 ppm on a wet basis.

Treatment Treatment of individuals with copper poisoning involves the immediate identification and removal of the copper source, and the use of molybdate and sulfate to inactivate the copper. The treatment methods should be planned with the help of a veterinarian. To prevent copper and other mineral imbalances, the guidelines set forth in NRC, Nutrient Requirements for Sheep, 1984, should be closely followed.

Prevention Prevention is primarily by management of the feed and reading the labels. Trace mineral salt formulated for sheep should be used.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), July 09, 2000.

I have, probably against all accepted practices, an 11 acre pasture with a wide variety of animals, horses, sheep, cows, a llama, mini donkeys,etc. I used to keep the goats out there, but they kept managing to escape the woven wire fencing. So I built a goat 'Supermax" with cattle panels. I recently got 2 Jacobs sheep. For lack of forethought I put them in with the goats on a temporary basis. I found the goats bullied them something terrible and chased them away from the feed. They now are moved to a small pasture on their own with a few weanling goats and things now are working out very well. However, I never had any health related problems when the two were mixed together.

-- Dianne (yankeeterrier@hotmail.com), July 13, 2000.

If your goats don't have horns, and you don't put a buck in with ewes, or a ram with does, you will only have to contend with the other health problems and bullying already mentioned! I have twice had a horned goat gore a sheep. And found out that the males of either species will breed the females of the other species, but the fetus aborts after a few weeks -- not good news if you were counting on income from your lambs or kids. If you are able to keep them apart, I would recommend it.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), July 14, 2000.