NEVER AGAIN LISTEN TO **STRANGERS YOU MEET ON THE DARK CYBER-STREETS OF THE NET**. YOUR MOTHER WAS RIGHT.

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003Rru You have to be approached to "join" Mensa? Go to their web site and find out how "hard" that is.

I was "approached". I flat out declined. There is nothing "wrong" with Mensa but...self appointed "elites" have little interest for me. (and as anyone should know by know, I already belong to one with a membership of ONE: MOI.)

I had a Nobel Winner tell me in the hallway of SUNY Stony Brook, "there are no real geniuses, there are only those who do the work and those who do not". Those who study Science (and technology) know that the work load to even be able to start to work in a field is very heavy now and growing exponentially. Those who work with the "geniuses" will also tell you that outside their own fields, they can be pretty "dumb" sometimes. Einstein was "wrong" for the last 30 years of his life and was able to contribute little after the 1926 Conference.

Heller will learn that they have 2 doors, "in" and "out" and on the way out, he will tell them the same thing he posted here.

His whole "raison'd'etre" stems from the same thinking that the ability to program well places him into another "Exclusive Club".

It does not. The proper view is that he belongs to a group of skilled technicians no better and no worse than a plumber, an electrician, an auto worker, Dentist, Doctor or CPA or Scientist. But the operative thinking should and must be "better or worse". The ultimate fallacy of any "Elite" is that there will always be..........someone richer, someone more beautiful, someone who can play piano or golf or tennis better, or...to their *horror* : someone who can THINK better. But the ability to "think" or process information matters little on the First Tee if you are looking across at one Mr. Tiger Woods or Ms. Betsy King.

Jefferson, ranked as one of the true geniuses in American History would have no truck with such Elitist thinking thought he, himself was a De-facto member of the "elite".

The American Republic (the world's most successful current role model of government)... is built upon Jefferson and others' belief that "an educated citizenry is the best defense of liberty".

The Founders did not speak of "a smarter citizenry" (politicians tend to have trouble even finishing IQ tests as Mr. Gore demonstrates. It is not built on "an educated elite ruling class is the best way to run the show".

It may stike the Hellers and the Mensas of the world as "news" but "ordinary people" can and do extraordinary things. For proof I can offer the creation and building of the United States of America by ALL THE PEOPLE not the "Mensas" or any group that "is smarter than all of you" types.

Thomas Edison said it 100 years ago, "invention is 95% perspiration and 5% inspiration". Edison had little formal education not unlike the Gateses, Dells and Jobs who quit college to learn what they needed to learn and know by themselves. He and Henry Ford built 2 of the largest and most important categories in the Industrial sector that to this day still employ huge chunks of the work force. We remember them and not the "GENIUS" Tesla.

The drumbeaters of Y2k was Gary North who was dedicated to replacing the US Constitution with his own form of CHURCH STATE disguised with his buzz word of "Theonomy". Gary's "God", Gary's Bible and Gary's rules.

I think that I can show that *MOST* of the leading "voices" of Y2k Doom all had agendas based on the following general so-called "thoughts":

It is from this same general outlines that almost all FRINGE groups both Left and Right derive their "motivations" and "justifications" for their actions. From this comes the "call to action" for whatever "cause" and it is clear that the entrance of the Leftist, Socialists like Carmichael, Theobold and the "World Futurists" into Y2k was for the purpose of "Recruiting for the future". It why the Rouge Valley people make fools of themselves to the same but less publicized extent that Paul Gordon has.

And as one can do with the self-appointed "SMARTIES" like Yourdon and Heller, you have to ask :

How smart could these people be and how much about the future could the "Futurists" know,,,,,,,,,if they got Y2k SO WRONG?

And the answer to that from them is "IT DOESN"T MATTER. TOMORROW IS ANOTHER DAY AND WE WILL DO IT AGAIN".

1. Something is wrong (computer failure gwine be REAL BAD);

2. I (We) know **BETTER** (unsaid: "BEST") than most how to do things better than the current system;

3. This time "they" will do it our way ("finally") and this is our chance to "really show them" our way is best.

4. We will do "whatever it takes to get the message across".

And it was the "Whatever it takkes to get the message across that lead to all of the **not being able to accept the changing facts about REMEDIATION** and also lead to the "EXTREMISM". Behind that it was *trivial* to *JUSTIFY* "preparing", "propagandizing", "LYING" and the post-1/1/2000 "DENIAL" still in evidence here.

KNOWING THAT or if one was lucky as I was TO HAVE KNOWN THAT THEY HAD DONE ALL OF THIS BEFORE.........from "the Bomb" to "Nuke Power" to "The Commies" to "The Devil makes you do that" to any of the causes **USED** by "EXTREMISTS OF ANY ILK"..........

one is forearmed and forewarned of what is to come from them as they try over and over, their NAKED GRASPS FOR THE ONE THING

.........they want: POWER and "POWER" over.........."the good common sense of the American Public"...........THEY VIEW AS

"SHEEPLE".

AND TO ALL OF THEM A MESSAGE WHICH SHOULD BE YOURS : "OVER MY DEAD BODY".

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003Rru

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), July 07, 2000

Answers

CPR,

I once went to a Mensa meeting and suspect that you'd happily fit in with that crowd of inflated-ego misfits.

-- Dunsa (church@of.the.enlightned), July 07, 2000.

CPR is Mensa "material" all right. It's a club for losers who have nowhere else to go, so he would fit right in.

As for his "OVER HIS DEAD BODY" comment: promises, promises. I'll believe it when I see it.

-- Steve Heller (steve@steveheller.com), July 07, 2000.

IT'S A SUBSET OF THE SET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh, sorry. Wrong thread.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), July 07, 2000.

Tell your new best friends that one of the needs to shape up his/her "IQs of the greatest geniuses" page asap or be tossed out into the REAL WORLD again. Child prodigies and high IQ are not the only "measures". Production of that which causes paradigm shifts of historical importance in Science or technology tends to measure intellectual capacity as well.

Liebnitz and Goethe are present but Newton is absent?

Mozart is ranked but BEETHOVEN (universally acknowledged as the greastest musical genius ever) is absent? A search of all known papers and letters of Mozart fails to turn up any mention of the French Revolution and Mozart had known one Marie Antoinette from the Court of Joseph the Musical Emperor for years.

No Thomas Jefferson? Not one of the founders of Quantum?

Prior to the 2000th century grasp of most details in many fields was a pre-requisite for a Ph. D. though the Ph.D. is now no longer a measure of intellect or even knowledge. But once upon a time, it was.

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), July 07, 2000.

LINK to faulty "IQs of geniuses" page:

LINK

http://home8.swipnet.se/~w-80790/Index.htm

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), July 07, 2000.

Oh, whatever will people here do when left without the several daily doses of brilliance and supreme intellect of cpr and AndyRay? Oh, woe is us, woe is us.

-- I'm Here, I'm There (I'm Everywhere@so.beware), July 07, 2000.

off

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), July 07, 2000.

no-mention of WISDOM--which only comes from GOD!

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), July 07, 2000.

Al,

No offense, but wouldn't you say intelligence (as well as everything else) also comes from God?

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), July 07, 2000.

ROTFL!!! There goes "hmmm" again, cleaning up the html messes like a Hoover vacuum cleaner!! Lol, he really sucks! Definitely obsessive/compulsive.

-- BIG Text Man (eat@my.dust), July 07, 2000.

LOL

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), July 07, 2000.

I don't know any rich software designers who aren't obsessive or compulsive in some way. It comes with the field.

-- (kb8um8@yahoo.com), July 07, 2000.

Then why isn't creeper a rich software designer?.. god knows he's obsessive and compulsive enough, and he's always telling us about his Masters degree in Mathematics... so why is he a lowly real estate salesman? ( which is one step below a used car salesman and only one step above a politician :-)

We all know that the creep is Mensa material and he is a computer expert that writes in 9 !!!!!! languages... so why is he wasting his time selling real estate and boring us on this forum?

Could it be ( in whisper mode :-) he washed out?

-- Netghost (ng@no.yr), July 07, 2000.

"Final message..." Hint of a promise likely to be unkept.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), July 08, 2000.