E-coli and Fresh Vegetables

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I wanted to pass along something out of today's The Tennessean. It is an article on how meatpackers are trying to eliminate e-coli in their products. Quote: "If you look at the incident rate of those bacteria in your soil or in the environment, and then you look at the incident rate in pork or ground beef, we do a really good job, " Mark Miller (a Meat Scientist at Texas Tech University) said. "You have a better chance of getting it from the lettuce in your back yard that you bring in and forget to wash really good."

In a sidebar there were safety tips from the Center for Disease Control and Prevention which included, "Wash fruits and vegetables thoroughly, especially those which will not be cooked. Children younger than five and people with depressed immune systems should avoid eating alfalfa sprouts."

In a related article in the same issue it said: "The bacteria kill an estimated 60 Americans each year and sicken an estimate 73,000, mostly children or the elderly." "The microbe was found in 28% of the cattle entering Midwest slaughterhouses last summer, according to an Agriculture Department study published this srping, and was even more prevalent inside the plants. Cattle can carry the bacteria on their hides as well as in their intestines." "By the time the carcasses were cleaned (scrubbing, washes, rinses and steam pasteurization), most of the E-coli had been destroyed, but 1.8% of the sampled carcasses still tested positive."

I have heard quite a few cases of 'flu', are really food poisoning.

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), July 06, 2000

Answers

Hi Ken, do you know or did the article say, if the e-coli found in the vegetables were from using fresh manure on the garden? I had heard about this problem with organic vegetables also and was wondering if it's from manure or something else. I had also heard that alot of sprout seed come from South America and the e-coli is on the seeds when you plant them, thus carrying the bacteria to the sprouts themselves. They say if you soak them in a clorox and water solution before planting, it will help. Have never grown sprouts, so don't know. Thanks for the info!

-- Annie (mistletoe@earthlink.net), July 06, 2000.

If an animal has E-coli in its intestines and then uncomposted manure is used in a garden, I would think there is a high chance some will get on vegetables, probably through dirt splashes during rains. The vegetables are just carriers, not hosts, which is why it can be washed off. One might think vegetables in supermarkets would be OK since they come from factory farms. Yes, but that factory farm may be in Mexico or some other country which doesn't have the stricter standards of the U.S. As far as I know night soil is still used as a fertilizer in some areas of Asia.

The primary reason so many cattle entering slaughterhouses have E- coil on or in them is they come out of feedlots where exposure to manure is unavoidable.

I don't know about being carried on seed. Perhaps someone else can enlighten us here as to why the warning from the Center about alfalfa sprouts in particular.

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), July 06, 2000.


Most sprouts are grown in water, not soil. At least in my book, and in my experience. I also know that the whole drink milk idea in the USA is just big money, there isn't enough vitimins except added vitimins in pasturized/homoginized milk to make it even worthwhile to drink. We are the only mammal in the world who continues to drink this after weaning. It has very little usable calcium in it, and dark green leafy vegetables have tons more. If the government had had its way, no moms would be nursing their kids, thousands of babies died when I was a kid over in impoverished countries from well meaning folks bringing formula over, then leaving them with no milk production, and formula with unclean water and conditions. It is illegal for me to sell my goat milk to anyone, though I have for years. Yet the dairy in Houston which keeps their animals in horrible condition, and whose place is an absolute pig sty, is able to sell there's legally. If any of you have ever visited a large butcher facility, you would never eat meat again. You most assurdly would be looking closer at the feed tags you feed your animals. Rendering plants come by and pick up the vats of blood, under the slaughter house, these grated covered tanks are walked on all day while the guys spit their tabacco, scrub their manure packed boots on them, and hose guts, diarrhea and anything else into these pits. It is then deydrated down and used for the animal by products on your labels of feed for your goats, hens, pigs, cattle and horses. This is the true diasaster waiting to happen. Vicki McGaugh

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), July 06, 2000.

This whole topic was heavily debated on the 20/20 message board last Feburary. It seems John Stossels ran a rather biased report on organic farming that was perhaps not only influenced but financed by the big argibusiness companies. In his report he was very critical of organic farming and said that the e-coli rate was higher in organic foods and pointed out that a death had even occurred. He never substantiated his data nor provided any proof. Quite personally, I'd rather eat lettuce fertilized with manure than some hazaderous chemical than those hot dogs coming out of a processing facility that is just infested with e-coli. As Vickie said, this is a time bomb waiting to explode... how much longer can this go on without some type of consequence? And irradiation is the current cure? NOT!!!!!

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), July 06, 2000.

I agree with most of what you said. However, today's slaughterhouses are a far cry from that deplicted in Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle". Most are as sanitary as possible considering mass production due to stricter government requirements. There is an old saying two things you don't want to see being made are sausage and laws.

As far as I know, due to the Mad Cow Disease scare, USDA has forbidden the use of any animal by-products in animal feed. However, some may still be in the supply system. Again, as far as I know, both blood and bone meal is still being sold for gardening use. I don't know if USDA still allows poultry house litter as cattle feed in feedlots.

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), July 06, 2000.



P.S. I have been following the irradiation debate for about twenty years and I am strongly in favor of its use. If you get an X- Ray, do you become radioactive? So far those who say it somehow changes foods do not have the research to support them. It is used in Japan for milk at least and you know how sensitive the Japanese are to the issue of radioactivity. The U.S. is one of the last industrialized nations to restrict its usage, and even that is easing up.

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), July 06, 2000.

The alfalfa sprouts in question were ones purchased in the grocery store. The editor of Organic Gardening did an editorial in reply to the 20/20 report and contacted the scientist who did the testing. It is interesting that his tests did find Ecoli on a few organic and non-organic veggies BUT did NOT specify if it was a strain that is dangerous to humans. There are thousands of kinds of E-coli but only certain ones can make us sick. Her very interesting editorial is in the May/June 2000 issue.

-- Vaughn (vdcjm5@juno.com), July 06, 2000.

Thanks Vaughn for the info. Seems like it's like everything else with the media, just throw something out, whether you research it or not. I'm with Bernice, I'd rather eat the vegetables grown out of my garden, than the chemical laden ones at the store. Heck, farmers have been adding manure to their gardens forever.

-- Annie (mistletoe@earthlink.net), July 06, 2000.

Ken, regarding irradiation, one of the biggest issues is that "the powers that be" DON'T WANT it revealed which foods are irradiated. In fact, there is great effort to avoid disclosing production methods and ingredients at all. Those of us who care about what we eat want to be allowed to CHOOSE what we will and won't eat. Yes, we can grow some of our own food, but I have yet to see anyone here say that they grow ALL their foodstuffs. So we must buy at least some of our food. One of the weakening of organic rules that was proposed was to allow irradiation -- over 250,000 people contacted the USDA to protest the weakening of the rules, the greatest number of communications EVER received by the USDA on any matter.

I have not run across anyone who is actively trying to outlaw irradiation, yet (of course, that doesn't mean there aren't any) -- but I have encountered MANY who want to know what is in their food and to be able to buy food that hasn't been raised or treated in a way they find objectionable.

-- J.E.Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), July 07, 2000.


Since I retired from the federal government I don't have the sources I had at one time. However, as far as I know, the USDA requires every product which has been treated by irradiation to have a sticker or something noting that fact.

Notification can only go so far. Say you buy a cuke at the supermarket. Do you want a sticker on it saying where it was grown and every chemical, pesticide or hericide which had been used on that field within the past ten years to be listed. Label would probably be bigger than the cuke.

There was an item on, I think CNN Headline News, to the effect some major brand name was putting out a vegetable wash solution. You sprayed it on the vegetables and then washed them. It was suspose to wash off any pesticide, etc. residue. Haven't seen it locally. Does anyone know about this?

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), July 07, 2000.



I, too, have heard of that vegetable wash Ken. I don't see how it can differ from good old soap and water , but guess someone has devised a product to capatilize upon the situation. As for labeling... I must list every ingredient in my cheeses and fudges in order of predominance and lot numbers and document this. I don't use a lot of ingredients, however, if we get to the point where we have to list everything as you say, we will have quite a list. But... I do feel that we should have some type of information as to where or how the food in grocery stores are grown, processed, etc. For example, I spent several hours scouring organic food stores and discovered that there are foods labeled as organic that are not, in other words they do not meet standards but are sold as. And... I have seen tomatoes and other produce imported from foreign countries labeled as organic.. meaning Mexico and Iseral for starters. So I suppose the bottom line here is; we are a democracy and have options, if we don't like the food in the stores then we can grow our own. I am not a proponent of irradiation and will never be, however, if someone else wants to buy food processed in that manner its their choice. In the meantime... I prefer to do things as they were done almost a hundred yrs ago...... the old fashioned way. I like the idea of being self sufficient.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), July 07, 2000.

Ken, they're selling the vegetable wash here in our local Food Lion supermarket. I can't remember the name of it. I want to say "Swish" but I don't think that's it. I haven't bought any or even looked very closely at it. I just remember walking to the fresh fruit section and thinking "why have they put the "fantastic" right next to the fruit???!" That's what it reminded me of. Also if I remember rightly the liquid appeared to be blue. It certainly doesn't inspire me to want to smother my produce in it. Maybe someone else knows more about it. I'll read the lable next time I go and see what the contents are. Pauline in NC.

-- Pauline Adderley (tworoosters_farm@altavista.com), July 07, 2000.

To find out more about food irradiation and other interesting food safety issues, go to the Organic consumers assn. website http://www.purefood.org/

-- Bill Pollard (sportmonza@aol.com), July 07, 2000.

When I asked my store's butcher if their meat was irradiated yet, he replied that it would be soon. When I showed my dissapointment, he informed me that chicken has been irradiated for years now....yet i have never seen any label indicating that! Sue

-- Sue (sulandherb@aol.com), July 07, 2000.

This new 'vegetable wash' is probably a double-edge sword for supermarkets. They present really nice looking vegetables and then have to admit, well, you might want to wash them with this special solution before eating them.

The authorization to use irradation on chickens has been around for several years. I think its approved use for hamburger is fairly recent. It's actual use is something else. It is a very expensive process and not yet suited to mass production techniques on the scale of U.S. consumption.

I stand by my recollection that before any product in the U.S. which has been subjected to irradition is offered to the public it must have a special notice on the package.

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), July 07, 2000.



The information I have read recently on BSE/mad cow disease, is that the USDA HAS NOT banned feeding of meat products to animals -- just made it voluntary on the part of the producers. I got this information from Jim Hightower's 1997 book "There's Nothing in the Middle of the Road But Yellow Stripes and Dead Armadillos". I will concede that this is the only "evidence" I have found -- so far.

http://www.mad-cow.org/ has lots of articles on BSE

-- J.E.Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), July 08, 2000.


As for industrial farming in the USA having higher hygiene standards than foreign countries, my husband picked grapes one summer in eastern WA. He watched rodents and all sorts of unsavouries ride on the conveyor belts up into the juice-crushing trucks, and when he pointed it out, others just shrugged. He asked the workers if they drank that brand of juice (a well-known brand beginning with the letter W which shall remain nameless...), and they all said NO WAY! Since then, my husband has never drunk any of their juice either.

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), July 08, 2000.

They have not stopped putting animal by products in herbivore feed. I just went through a ton of researching the local feed mills to get a custom dairy goat mix and a really large percentage of feeds have animal by product in it. I am in cattle country Central Texas, and assure you that the cows should go to Mc Donald's once a week with their owners and get a chicken sandwich cause that is what they are deriving the high protien levels in the feeds from!

The 'blue stuff' is called Frisch I believe and when I checked the label I thought that the main ingredient other than water was alcohol, but this was a few weeks ago, so I won't swear to it.

Agribusiness are two terms that should be mutually exclusive in MHO. I would much rather eat my home produced food or produce from friends with the same principles than the toxic gmo stuff they are pushing at all of the ADD kids.....it's a real shame that we think chemicals can take care of our problems. It looks like we've done a good job of making more problems.

Let's all just grow our own, and if we can't then let's make networks together and try to refute this problem by really stepping out of the system.

-- Doreen (livinginskin@yahoo.com), July 09, 2000.


As far as E. coli and fresh produce, I've read/seen on news reports the lack of sanitary facilities for pickers in the field. They relieved themselves right in the field and afterward had no opportunity for handwashing. Delightful thought. I use a product I buy from my organic food coop called Fruit & Vegetable Wash on purchased produce. The label claims it removes pesticides, chemicals, waxes, dirt, oil, fungicides and herbicides, that it is environmentally safe, non-toxic, organic and completely rinsable. The ingredients are purified water, non-ionic and anionic surfactants and polysorbate-20.

As far as the alfalfa sprouts, I noticed in a healthfood store in a nearby town that citric acid tablets were being sold with the seeds for sprouting. The package label contained directions for dissolving the tablets in water to be used to soak and rinse the seeds and sprouts. The idea that lowering the pH of the water would interfere with the growth of bacteria and mold while not affecting the sprouts.

We weren't intended to eat laboratory "foods" with all the contaminants nor were cattle intended to be fed chicken litter, offal, and cement dust. Feedlots produce a lot of meat, most definitely, but at what cost to the environment as well as to the people who are consuming a possibly (probably) tainted, unhealthy product?

-- marilyn (rainbow@ktis.net), July 11, 2000.


Marilyn:

Thank you for mentioning concrete dust used in feedlots. I think it is actually ground granite, which is used in a concrete mix. It is fed as a mineral supplement.

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), July 11, 2000.


More interesting web sites - These pertaining to sprouting and the true cost of factory farming. http://www.sproutpeople.com/ and http://www.factoryfarm.org/ More reasons to go organic.

-- Bill Pollard (sportmonza@aol.com), July 12, 2000.

I use a product we sold in our health food store it is called "veggie wash", it is 100% natural from Beaumont products, Inc. Kennesaw, Ga. on the bottle it says, it is made of vegetable & fruit-base ingredients taken from citrus fruit, corn, & coconut. It has questions or comments call 1-800-451-7096 I'm the one who is allergic to all chemicals so I hunt for all natural products. Also if I'm at someones house that doesn't have veggie wash I ask for vinegar as I use a few tablespoonsful with the water as I wash veggies & fruit! Also when I sprout my seeds I put a small amount of vinegar in the soaking water with my seeds--then, when I rinse I also put vinegar in the water to rinse! Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), July 12, 2000.

Sorry, Ken but the source I cited said cement dust, as in crushed torn up concrete.

-- marilyn (rainbow@ktis.net), July 12, 2000.

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