Enough about me; let's talk about something else

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TB2K spinoff uncensored : One Thread

Wie lerne ich C++? Wdhrend man Java und Assembler noch mit Hilfe von Dokumenten aus dem Netz lernen kann, wird das mit C++ etwas schwieriger. Einmal ist C++ von sich aus schon sehr schwierig. Zum anderen kann man sehr leicht falsch programmieren und trotzdem syntaktisch korrekten C++-Code abliefern. Wie man wirklich richtig programmiert und guten C++ Code abliefert, das steht in B|chern wie zum Beispiel "Die C++ Programmiersprache" von Bjarne Stroustrup.

Allerdings ist gerade dieses Buch derart geschrieben, da_ es bereits einiges an Grundwissen benvtigt, um es |berhaupt zu verstehen. Dabei kvnnen Tutorials durchaus hilfreich sein! Daher mvchte ich hier ein Tutorial von Iftech anbringen | download |, das den Leser dahin bringen will, sogar Stroustrups Buch verstehen zu kvnnen. F|r dieses wie f|r das Tutorial weiter unten gilt: Es setzt Kenntnisse der Sprache C voraus! Ich finde es recht unverstdndlich, da_ man keine Tutorials schreibt, die von Anfang an C++ vermitteln, ohne den Umweg |ber C machen zu m|ssen.

An dem Punkt mvchte ich ein Buch anbringen, das ich recht gelungen finde. Es hei_t "Who's Afraid Of C++" und wurde von Steve Heller "verbrochen". Dieses Buch verlangt keine C-Kenntnisse und ist auch ansonsten durchaus ein besonderes Buch. Er hat das Buch ndmlich in Zusammenarbeit mit einer Frau geschrieben, die am Anfang gerade mal wu_te, wie man den PC startet. Diese Frau hat ihn dann regelmd_ig mit Fragen gelvchert, weil sie nicht alles sofort verstanden hat, und er hat es ihr dann nochmal anders erkldrt. Das besondere nun ist, da_ diese Frage-Antwort Spielchen mit in das Buch gelangt sind, weil man sich wohl dachte, da_ der Leser mvglicherweise dhnliche Fragen hat. Interessant ist auch, da_ besagte Frau inzwischen mit Nachnamen Heller hei_t. ;-)


-- Steve Heller (steve@steveheller.com), July 04, 2000


Certo deixe-nos nco falar sobre Steve Heller, mas deixe-nos anunciam seus livros. Consideravelmente logo o Sr. Rueben comegara a afixar no japonjs ou no sanskrite, e sera ainda mais inteligente do que qualquer coisa falcco escreveu:-). O que eu quero realmente saber sou o que faz McAlvaney penso de y2k, porque apss tudo i realmente da inteligjncia superior.

-- Butt Nugget (catsbutt@umailme.com), July 04, 2000.

Nema schlitza, Nema piwa...

-- jkl (df@home.mn), July 04, 2000.

Lui ha dimenticato il quiestione, "Lei disidera Il Resume con questa?".

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), July 04, 2000.

The direct translation of what Steve posted above as translated by Alta Vista'a "Translate Anything"


How do I learn C++? While one can learn Java and assembler still by documents from the network, becomes somewhat more difficult with C++. Once C++ on his part is already very difficult. On the other hand one can program very easily falsely and deliver nevertheless syntactically correct C++ code. As one really correctly programs and good C++ code delivers, is located in books as for example " the C++ programming language " from Bjarne Stroustrup. However even this book is in such a manner written that it already needs some at basic knowledge, in order to understand it at all. Tutorials can be quite helpful! Therefore I would like to attach here a Tutorial of Iftech | down load |, which wants to bring the reader there, to be able to understand even Stroustrups book. To this as further for the Tutorial down applies: It presupposes knowledge of the language C! I find it quite incomprehensible that one does not write Tutorials, which obtains C++ from the outset, without having to make the detour over C. On the point I would like to attach a book, which quite successful I find. It is called " Who's Afraid OF C++ " and by Steve Heller " was committed a crime ". This book does not require c-knowledge and is also otherwise quite a special book. It wrote the book in co-operation with a woman, who knew at the start even times, how one starts the PC. This woman geloechert it then regularly with questions, because she did not understand everything immediately, and he explained it to her then again differently. The special now is that this question response also into the book it arrived to mirror-image moose because one probably imagined that the reader has possibly similar questions. Interesting it is also that mentioned woman is called in the meantime with surname Heller; -)

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), July 04, 2000.

the book it arrived to mirror-image moose

You know, I found that to be the hardest part of the book. I never could get the full meaning of it, despite all the explanations.

-- Susan (susan@steveheller.com), July 04, 2000.

It is called " Who's Afraid OF C++ " and by Steve Heller " was committed a crime

It say s the book committed a crime by being called "whos afraid of C++ !!!

Could it be that "who's afraid of" belongs to the "big bad wolf" in Germany?

Or is the book itself criminal in the way it was written?

And just what was this woman doing to it when she would "geloechert it"? Did it have something to do with the mirror-image moose she still cannot grasp?

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), July 04, 2000.

Big deal. This German report is in fact a repeat of one readily available in English. I see no reason to provide any links to the English version to give any more exposure to this unique form of Hellerian SPAM.

As for my post, the translation of the question is he "forgot" should be ammended to read "Do you want Il Resume with that .....or Il FRIES?".

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), July 04, 2000.


That "committed a crime" is a (humorous?) idiom meaning "created", according to my German-speaking friend who translated it for me. Don't put too much credence in "automated translation" programs. Those mirrored moose can be too much for them.

-- Steve Heller (steve@steveheller.com), July 04, 2000.

One good thing about living in America is that there is no neurosis to insignificant to merit its own paperback!!

-- [o _ o] (--@-.-), July 04, 2000.

More reviews (in English or at worst, American) of The ResumeBoy's "efforts" in C++ (its somewhat of an inside joke that the plus signs are really "placeholders" for "double crossed".

LINK -to-300-posts-from-programmers/others

NOTE that people supply real email addresses and web sites to back up their comments such as this telling comment on "T.A.s" (teaching assistants, the built-in curse of large Universities)

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl? sid=00/06/09/2153222&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=14#20 Object-oriented programming design is a great way to organize a problem into manageable, scalable abstractions. Everything you learn in college about the virtues of OOP is well founded, would anyone here disagree?

The problem is C++. It's not a very good OOP. Would most people here agree its a pretty harsh hack of the C syntax? When compared to (IMO) the mother of all OOPs: LISP?

Students that never learned C++ on their own learn it in college, usually from a TA. Now I'm not knocking TA's, but they usually have zero practical experience with large projects. And to compound the problem, they learned their C++ programming skills from... ANOTHER TA! And so on. See the problem? (And the worst part is: would you want to hire someone who just learned how to code in C++ during their 2nd or 3rd years in college! Companies do. I want to hire someone who's been programming before they were pubescent!)

So not only is the OOP paradigm lost by lame C++ instruction (here's printf, write, fwrite, and 'cout ', gee, that makes sense...), the entirety of programming education is at risk by the lack of truly knowledgable instructors. And then these kids go out and program for a living! No wonder there is so mush bullshit buggy code in the commercial world.

Ok, sorry about the rant. But any attempts to teach any computer concept with C++ seems to me to be hopelessly flawed and will end up doing more harm then good. Teach with LISP from the top and C from the bottom, and assembly from the real bottom.

I agree with the 'problem' and 'solution' domain approach. OOP on top so that there is flexibility and scalability in the entire design; procedural C on the bottom for portability and high-performance.

C++ -- the great hack, the facilitator of even greater hacks -- has done horrors to the world that will take decades to undo.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl? sid=00/06/09/2153222&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=5



And before ResumeBoy jumps in with his "critic is a legend in his own mind", let the all the people know that GRABOW **ONLY** did **760 reviews** for the ACCU (ACCU - The Association of C & C++ Users)


http://www.accu.org/bookreviews/public/reviews/0rv/Francis_Glassborow. htm

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), July 04, 2000.

You know, CPR, I'll bet I could find thousands of people who say LISP is a stupid language; in fact, the name is jokingly said to mean "Lots of Infernal Stupid Parentheses". Similarly, finding one person, or even hundreds of them, who is a LISP proponent (or a proponent of any other language, for that matter) who says he doesn't like C++ as an OO language means exactly nothing. It certainly says nothing about my writing, my programming skills, or anything even vaguely related to either of these.

-- Steve Heller (steve@steveheller.com), July 04, 2000.

It should be of great interest to the lay people here that most of the 300+ posts from his peers have little to comment on re: Resume's book. The posts went to a discussion of whether or not C++ was an appropriate teaching language or not.

That should be obvious. While Pascal was most often used as a demo language in colleges (which was Wirth's intention for building it supposedly); any creature who can master C and C++ should have little trouble with any of the other major languages and perhaps none with scripts.

It is sort of analogous to the use of Organic grades to screen out and protect the Medical profession from being invaded by those who "can't handle the work load" or the use of Physics 1,2,3 grades by Engineering firms to screen. Physics 1 and 2 is based on Calculus another most useful "screening course".

Of course, nothing can teach how to build the computer pathways known as "algorithms". Only the ability to deduce or induce "structure" can be partially learned from "Mathematics" (which nicely explains why Ph.Ds. in Math with computer backgrounds and the ability to write well command large sums on Wall St. and Silicon Valley).

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), July 04, 2000.

So, uh, Steve, I realize I'm just an Absolutely Undistinguished Dimwit who could NEVER in her wildest DREAMS compare to YOU, "...AN but how EXACTLY does anything on this thread even remotely reflect the TITLE of the thread? (That was rhetorical; just wanted to point out an apparent inconsistency.)

Just to refresh your memory:

Enough about me; let's talk about something else

Still waiting.....

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), July 04, 2000.

(Stupid fingers....grumble....expletive deleted.....)

Uh, yeah; that should have read:

"...DREAMS compare to YOU, "...AN AUTHOR..."..."

(Oh, nevermind. Resume the Clash of the Damn Titans. I'm going back to my BBQ now.....)

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), July 04, 2000.

Poor Heller - it must hurt to be such a stooge...

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), July 04, 2000.

Agreed, Pro.

Good to see you around. Did you read the defenses of the fascism on QQ44? It's hilarious.

Steve Heller is wrong about so much more than Y2k, it's pitiful. The best thing to come out of reading a part of his book online (which was almost worth what on epaid for it there) was the "logic" employed by a "programmer" who was taken in by the meme, and then became one of it's proponents.

Vindicated Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), July 05, 2000.

Ich bin ein Butt-Plug.

-- Stevie Heller (stevie@ego.boosting.thread.scum), July 06, 2000.

I hate to tell you this Steve, but ich means "I" not you in German, so you are insulting yourself.

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), July 12, 2000.

I hate to tell you this Cherri, but Steve Heller did not post the message you're referring to...

-- Think (before@you.post), July 12, 2000.

Speaking of silly language acronyms (and acronyms in general), I hope you enjoy this Technology Glossary . . .

PCMCIA - People Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms

PENTIUM - Produces Erroneous Numbers Through Incorrect Understanding of Mathematics

WWW - World Wide Wait

COBOL - Completely Obsolete Business Oriented Language

CD-ROM - Consumer Device - Rendered Obsolete in Months

OS/2 - Obsolete Soon, Too.

MIPS - Meaningless Indication of Processor Speed

WINDOWS - Will Install Needless Data On Whole System

MICROSOFT - Most Intelligent Customers Realize Our Software Only Fools Teenagers

LISP - Lots of Infuriating & Silly Parenthesis

RISC - Reduced Into Silly Code

SCSI - System Can't See It

DOS - Defective Operating System

BASIC - Bill's Attempt to Seize Industry Control

IBM - I Blame Microsoft

DEC - Do Expect Cuts

Kindest Regards


-- w0lv3r1n3 (w0lv3r1n3@yahoo.com), July 12, 2000.

W, long time no "see"!!! Love those things; they are hilarious. So, where are you these days....Spain? France? Italy?

You jet-setting globe-hopper, you ;-)

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), July 12, 2000.


Yet Another Damn Acronym, Yet Another Damn Acronym, Yet Another Damn Acronym !

-- Debbie (dbspence@usa.net), July 12, 2000.

Since the civilized have chosen to ignore mr H's immense ego's attempt at self gratification....here is a few funny ones:

Have a laugh at translator's expense...

Some actual English signs from around the world:

TOKYO HOTEL: Is forbidden to steal hotel towels please. If you are not a person to do such thing is please not to read notis.

BUCHAREST (ROMANIA) HOTEL: The list is being fixed for the next day. During that time we regret that you will be unbearable.

LEIPZIG (GERMANY) ELEVATOR: Do not enter the lift backwards, and only when lit up.

BELGRADE (YUGOSLAVIA) ELEVATOR: To move the cabin, push button for wishing floor. If the cabin should enter more persons, each one should press a number of wishing floor. Driving then going alphabetically by national order.

PARIS HOTEL ELEVATOR: Please leave your values at the front desk.

ATHENS (GREECE) HOTEL: Visitors are expected to complain at the office between the hours of 9 and 11 a.m. daily.

YUGOSLAVIAN HOTEL: The flattening of underwear with pleasure is the job of the chambermaid.

JAPANESE HOTEL: You are invited to take advantage of the chambermaid.

MOSCOW HOTEL: You are welcome to visit the cemetery where famous Russian and Soviet composers, artists and writers are buried daily except Thursday.

SWISS MENU: Our wines leave you nothing to hope for.

AUSTRIAN SKI LODGE: Not to perambulate the corridors in the hours of repose in the boots of ascension.

POLISH MENU: Salad a firm's own make; limpid red beet soup with cheesy dumplings in the form of a finger; roasted duck let loose; beef rashers beaten up in the country people's fashion.

HONG KONG TAILOR SHOP: Ladies may have a fit upstairs.

BANGKOK DRY CLEANERS: Drop your trousers here for best results.

PARIS DRESS SHOP: Dresses for street walking.

RHODES (GREECE) TAILOR SHOP: Order your summers suit. Because is big rush we will execute customers in strict rotation.

SOVIET NEWSPAPER: There will be a Moscow exhibition of Arts by 15,000 Soviet Republic painters and sculptors. These were executed over the past two years.

GERMAN CAMPING SITE: It is strictly forbidden on our Black Forest camping site that people of different sex, for instance, men and women, live together in one tent unless they are married with each other for that purpose.

HONG KONG AD: Teeth extracted by the lastest methodists.

ROME LAUNDRY: Ladies, leave your clothes here and spend the afternoon having a good time.

CZECH TOURIST AGENCY: Take one of our horse-driven city tours. We guarantee no miscarriages.

SWISS MOUNTAIN INN: Special today - no ice cream.

COPENHAGEN (DENMARK) AIRLINE: We take your bags and send them in all directions.

MOSCOW HOTEL: If this is your first visit to the U.S.S.R., you are welcome to it.

NORWEGIAN LOUNGE: Ladies are requested not to have children in the bar.

BUDAPEST (HUNGARY) ZOO: Please do not feed the animals. If you have any suitable food, give it to the guard on duty.

ROMAN DOCTOR: Specialist in women and other diseases.

ACUPULCO HOTEL: The manager has personally passed all the water served here.

TOKYO SHOP: Our nylons cost more than common, but you'll find they are best in the long run.

JAPANESE HOTEL: colles and heates: If you want just condition of warm in your room, please control yourself.

TOKYO CAR RENTAL FIRM: When passender of foot heave in sight, tootle the horn. Trumpet him melodiously at first, but if he still obstacles your passage then tootle him with vigor.

-- IRONy MAN (marvel@comic.book), July 12, 2000.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ