Eminent Domain: could you be next?

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Homeowners beware the eminent domain law! It is currently being used in our area to take homes away from people so that others can have a golf course. That's right; not a needed highway or school but, a golf course. Are you aware of what is going on in your area? These are not even run down properties. Check out www.SAVEOURFARM.com and see for yourself. It was voted 6 to 1 in favor to take away the homes. The one person strong enough to take political pressure and do what was right was my aunt. I'm proud of her steadfastness in this and saddened that others are so weak. Some rights are being abused and land is being stolen! Could you be next?

-- Pam Pitts (msjanedoe@hotmail.com), June 30, 2000

Answers

Some people have fought this by having their land surveyed into extremely small plots (like one square yard) and then selling them to as many property buyer per lot as possible. This creates a legal hassle in that each buyer, even for a square yard, needs to be dealt with separately. Eventual legal fees may make the project not cost effective. Best advice I can up with is to get a really good attorney who specializes in this area. You get what you pay for.

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), June 30, 2000.

WHAT ARE THEY DOING? I WENT TO THE WEB SITE HOW ARE THEY ABLE TO TAKE THE FARMS? I JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW OUR FREE COUNTRY CAN ALLOW SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO HAPPEN. WHAT DO THESE PEOPLE DO NOW? CAN A HISTORICAL SOCIETY HELP?

-- renee oneill (oneillsr@home.com), June 30, 2000.

Another possible option. Contact Farmland Trust. I don't have their address handy, but might be something like www.farmlandtrust.com. They buy the developmental rights to farms in danger and have the clout to keep them from being developed. Anyone know of the specific mailing address?

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), June 30, 2000.

Here's what people CAN do....I e-mailed a polite but pointed letter to the City Manager of Coatesville, informing him that i was so outraged at their actions I would bring this situation to the attention of EVERY major media outlet in the country on Monday morning.....and i will...If we ALL called our local TV stations and informed them of this "eminent domain" misuse...someone would pay attention, and FAST..after all, what a great story so close to the illustrious 4th of July....Because i am a little nuts, I will aslo call all of the networks out of NYC as well as the New York Times on Monday....I am incensed.....where the heck is Joel?????

-- Lesley (martchas@gateway.net), June 30, 2000.

The state is going to do some work near our rental property. They stopped and spoke to our 80 year old renter. Said to tell us that we would have a check in two weeks and left a business card.

We wrote them and said we are pretty easy to get along with, but just mentioning this to our elderly renter in passing would not be satisfactory. We would need to know what this is about and what they are sending us a check for.

Got a letter in the mail today with and enclosure titled "When ODOT Needs Your Property" Some VERY interesting facts in it.

Word for word - "In the event that you and the Department do not reach an agreement regarding the value of your property, the Director of Transportation will request that the Attorny General's Office initiate such action as is necessary to acquire the property by appropriation.

(it gets worse) " .....the Director shall deposit with the Clerk of Courts the amount of money which the Department has determined to tbe just compensation for the property taken and damages tot he remainder of the property, if any." "It is important to note that when the Director has placed an amount on deposit with the Clerk of Courts, the Department may enter upon and use your land."

The pamphlet explains that you and the state may not agree on a price, and you may even go as far as a jury trial about what they are paying you, but, - regardless, the project will be going forward in the mean time. And, they can demolish your structures by a "structure appraisal" They have three appraisers visit and inspect the structures and arrive at an opion of the value to be filed with the Court. - quoting again - "The "structure appraisal" process allows the Director to secure physical possession of the structures as early as 60 days after service of summons for the sppropriation case."

After reading the pamphlet, we just hope they don't want too much land and that they don't tear up too much and that we don't get burned too badly - cause it says in black and white - it will be their way - all the way.

-- homestead2 (homestead@monroecty.net), June 30, 2000.



I'm right here, Lesley. I've been following the thread. The law to end all decent laws--that is eminent domain ! A licence to steal is exactly what it is and no other definition can purge the stench of it. We throughly discussed this issue in a thread called "Bergere easements" and it is in the archives of this forum. As you know they tried to use this law to steal about two acres from me for a road. On May 20,2000 I closed the road (with the permission of the U.S Forestry) causing the occupants to walk to their newly built home. On May 30th they sold the home and property to a local family. On June 10th, I granted them full easement of the road with a "no sale" clause. I would have lost in court but the realtor would have walked home for 3 years waiting for a court date. Some people would call me harsh but when you intend to steal that which I own- than I am. The new owners knew me and they paid me for the use of the road forever as long as they never sell--price?--1 dollar. I guess it depends how far you are willing to go to insure that justice is served. As many of you know, there is no end to how far I will go to insure that end. No man, beast or government will steal from me as long as I draw breath, so help me God !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), July 01, 2000.

-- The law to end all decent laws--that is eminent domain ! A licence to steal is exactly what it is and no other definition can purge the stench of it. --

It might get worse! The land grabbing Conservation and Reinvestment Act (CARA). This bill has passed the House and is on its way to the Senate ~ and it's scary. I have more info if wanted. From a web site:

Never before have we faced a more dangerous bill. CARA would take more than $3 billion a year from off shore oil and gas revenue and place it in the Land and Water Conservation Fund. This would all be done "off-budget," until year 2015. CARA dwarfs every other environmental bill we have faced.

The top ten fatal flaws of the bill are: 1. CARA does not protect against condemnation.

2. CARA does not prevent federal agencies from impacting adjacent private land.

3. CARA provides mechanisms to get around the so called willing seller requirement.

4. The limited protections do not extend to state government acquisitions.

5. Water rights are not adequately protected.

6. CARA will destroy the economic stability of rural America.

7. CARA allows state protections of species to become broader than those under the ESA.

8. CARA gives money to non-government organizations opposed to property rights.

9. Expenditures to implement CARA attack the "Surplus" and threaten trusts like Social Security.

10. CARA provides the road to extinguish private property ownership in America.

The ultimate goal of CARA is to take your land and give it to the federal government. If this bill passes, they will have the power, the law and the money to do whatever they want. The Republican Congress needs to stop this bill instead of assuring its passage. Make your calls now. This is our last chance to stop the bill.

-- ~Rogo, South Central Texas (rogo2020@yahoo.com), July 01, 2000.


Been there - done that...

Back in the late 60's, the powers that be decided they "needed" to build a lake near us for "flood control". Many people lost entire farms that had been in their families for generations, historical cemetaries had to be moved etc... We were paid $108/acre for our land (48 acres out of 80) - after a lengthy battle that we joined in with others in the same boat. Our land was condemned and confiscated.

Oh there were supposed to be benefits - a huge recreational lake, business opportunities for local folks, unlimited supply of water, etc...

Truth is - the lake attracts a steady supply of tourists from up-state and out of state and you can almost count on at least one drunken boating etc.. accident every weekend, murder victims keep being found in the lake ensuring a steady supply of business for the divers and investigators, when the spring rains come either above the dam is flooded or below the dam is flooded - so much for flood control, and after 30+ years of posturing, we still have to rely on our wells for water.

The feds keep coming through to re-survey their acqisition, and freqently claim the earlier surveys were flawed and move their survey stakes - further in to our property, never further out. We cannot cross the property formerly known as ours to get to the lake in any way that might leave a path or trail, cannot take motorized vehicles on that land, cannot remove fallen deadwood ect....

One bright spot is that when a local banker got a bright idea to sell lots for luxury homes on the lake on some of the confiscated ground and proposed it to the feds, someone took a good look at the deeds that had been given and discovered that if the government DID decided that the property in question was NOT needed for the lake or flood control or whatever, the land had to be returned to the original owners for the same price the feds paid. And no one in the government was stupid enough to offer back the ground for a lousy $108 an acre.

Bottom line is the having the feds or state for a neighbor in the most part sucks (pardon me), but if they want the land - you may as well kiss it goodbye and hold out for all the bucks you can get. And check out thoroughly any new property you buy for easements,etc.... and make sure that there arn't any rumors about some fed project to be built in the near future.

-- Polly (tigger@moultrie.com), July 01, 2000.


My 2 cnets worth! Have you ever noticed when it's for "flood control" or the "good of the community" it's ALWAYS the honest, hardworking people that have to suffer because of the rich "elite" that wants a playground? I have and it makes me absolutely furious! I've seen in the past when this type thing happens. Rich people, doctors,lawyers etc rush out and buy up all the land they can from poor unspecting landowners for a song and then when the news just happens to hit the public that a lake will be built--it just so happens these rich dudes are landowners with a lakes side view-----! Crooks abound not only in D.C. or Springfield, IL but right in our own back yard!!! Matt. 24:44

-- hoot gibson (hoot@otbnet.com), July 01, 2000.

Hoot is right. My brother and cousin in Alaska purchased a gold mine which is in a very remote area -- fly-in. Well, they both fly and have planes, so it worked for them, and it happens to be one of the richest evaluated pieces of mining property in the state for placer mining. They were going to have to do a lot of work to get anything out of it, as it's very high on a mountainside, and water would have to be brought UP to it, but they are hardworking guys, and were willing to invest the time and labor needed. Also to follow all applicable laws so as not to destroy the surroundings -- they've both lived in Alaska almost all their lives, and love it, don't want to destroy their own backyard, so to speak. BUT, the land is in a National Park, in a mining monument no less, and the Park service pulled them around one way and another (keep in mind that this is a proved up deeded mining claim, which these guys OWN, not lease) with paper work and silly requirements, didn't get stuff filed on time (on purpose) so deadlines weren't met and they had to start over again -- the end result after about ten years of being jerked around was that they lost the place, with no compensation. Maybe if they'd been a big corporation, with a lot of money and pull, they would've been able to fight it, but it was just the two of them, one's a truck driver and the other is a heavy equipment operator. The Park Service doesn't want even minimal impact mines (in a monument to mining!!) because that land has to be left pristine for the rich hikers and hunters to enjoy. Never mind that only a few people ever see the area, because it is so remote!! And it wasn't their land to start with . . . if the Lord doesn't come back soon, our grandchildren are not going to have a very nice world to live in, folks.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), July 01, 2000.


Even more outrageous, Kathleen, they listed Denali Park as endangered park. What a joke. But then the new world order where people are unimportant and the animals rule. Folks, if you haven't seen Alaska, you have no idea the amount of land the park holds.

-- Norma Lucas (trooper806@webtv.net), July 01, 2000.

-- Rich people, doctors,lawyers etc rush out and buy up all the land they can from poor unspecting landowners for a song and then when the news just happens to hit the public that a lake will be built--it just so happens these rich dudes are landowners with a lakes side view-----! Crooks abound not only in D.C. or Springfield, IL but right in our own back yard --

You may be confusing wealth with knowledge :-)

-- ~Rogo, South Central Texas (rogo2020@yahoo.com), July 01, 2000.


Everyplace I've seen this happen wealth has bought knowledge. It's usually an inside deal that's passed by word of mouth from one wealthy person to another wealthy person. I'm not condemning wealth. Money will not condemn you--the Bible says the "Love" of money is the root of all evil and it's usually what abounds amongst those crooked elite. Matt. 24:44

-- hoot gibson (hoot@otbnet.com), July 01, 2000.

I was hoping our land theft specialist from New York would give us her opinion. Where is my carpetbagger friend and resident spelling teacher--Elizabeth ?

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), July 02, 2000.

About a year and a half ago I saw a program on Discovery network. Because the grizzly bears in Yellowstone will not be able to find an unrelated mate soon they are purposing a Yellowstone to Yukon corridor, going west and then east from Yellowstone a 200 mile wide corridor to the Yukon. Folks get out your map and see all the towns etc. this will be in there way.There already starting there plan. 4 dams on the snake river will be removed, there is a big fuss about it but we all know if the "powers that be" want it to happen it will happen.And the Clinton dictatorship has made many more thousands of acres "roadless" I recorded the program and will make copies for anyone who sends me an empty tape and return postage...Doris in Idaho

-- Doris Richards (dorisquilts@webtv.net), July 02, 2000.


The url for American Farmland Trust is http://www.farmland.org/

-- Bob Johnson (backwoods_bob_2000@yahoo.com), July 06, 2000.

Saw a sticker for the IRS, "We've Got What It Takes To Take What You've Got".....seems to apply to all parts of the government, huh?

I e-mailed the site to my Rep. Ron Paul, just thought he might have the mechanisms in place to get the National attention this deserves.

-- Doreen (livinginskin@yahoo.com), July 07, 2000.


Check out www.wakeupwisconsin.com to see what is happening in northern Wisconsin regarding condemnation of private lands to enable private utilities to build a high voltage line to sell electricity generated in Canada to businesses in eastern Wisconsin. It appears they can pay you for a right-of-way and you are stuck with the property, now worth much less to anyone who would want to buy it in the future, and you still have to pay taxes etc. on the right-of-way that they are using for their power lines. This is something that should concern all of us--you never know what project may be in planning that will require the use of your backyard.

Jim

-- Jim (Jiminwis@yahoo.com), July 08, 2000.


The whole damn lot of you are asleep. Stop using words that have no referent. "laws" "Governemnt" "Senate" "Officers" are junk words that you attach meaning to, and they trap you into believing they are real. Read the following and get some real insights to the solution to your problems. 1. The nature of government 2. Slavespeak 3. the constitution of no authority 4. Piercing the corporate veil you can find these articles on any good search engine.

-- David Hyde (hyde.d@mailcity.com), December 06, 2000.

And if we Americans don't move fast enough for the private for profit eElectricity/Energy Industry..our Federal Government led by President bBush will take our land by EMINENT DOMAIN...and there is absolutely NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT.

Duluth News Tribune http://web.duluthnews.com/content/duluth/2001/08/08/pageone/du_POWR080 8.htm

Bush might seek license to OK power lines Decision by Congress would affect Arrowhead-Weston project By Steve Kuchera News Tribune staff writer

The idea of the federal government taking over the process for approving electrical transmission lines is not going over well in the Northland. "It is a colossally bad idea whose time should never come,'' said Minnesota Commissioner of Commerce Jim Bernstein. "No one believes the federal government can do a better job of this than the states.'' At a conference of governors in Providence, R.I., on Monday, federal Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham warned that if states do not rapidly approve construction of transmission lines, the Bush administration would consider asking Congress for federal authority to take over the approval process. Abraham said the administration was eager to help states speed construction and viewed the takeover of project approval as a last resort because the process so often involves eminent domain -- the condemnation of private property. But there can be no delay in stringing new lines, he said, because they are one of the keys to ending the power crisis. The governors countered that states are already approving new lines more quickly and would resist any federal encroachment. The Wisconsin Public Service Corporation is considering a request to build the Wisconsin portion of a high-voltage transmission line, Arrowhead- Weston, between Duluth and Wausau, Wis. Arrowhead-Weston opponents, concerned over the line's possible impact on health, the environment and property values, want Wisconsin to meet its electrical needs through conservation and by building small generators to supply areas needing power. Project supporters say the line is needed to increase the reliability of the region's electrical supply. Wisconsin, which is a net importer of electricity, has only four high-voltage connections to other states. Minnesota, by comparison, has 17 connections. "Mr. Abraham seems to believe that states can't do this or are unwilling to do this,'' Bernstein said. "The fact is that states are building lines.'' State officials in Wisconsin also see no need for the federal government to become involved. "I think Wisconsin has always done a more than adequate job of processing its transmission complaints in a timely fashion,'' PSC spokesman Jeff Butson said. Under recent changes in state law, the PSC can now handle requests to build power plants or transmission lines in Wisconsin within 180 days of when the application is completed. "It's usually not at this end where there is a problem,'' Butson said. "It's usually at the applicant's end -- they have to go back and clean up their application or they are not turning in the information we need.'' But utilities are not in overwhelming support of Abraham's comments, either. "We believe that the only way to do business is to include the public in the process,'' said American Transmission Co. spokeswoman Maripat Blankenheim. ATC will own and operate Arrowhead-Weston if it's approved and built by Wisconsin PSC and Minnesota Power. While Blankenheim agrees with Abraham that more generation and transmission facilities need to be built, she said having the federal government take over the process "would be beyond a last resort for us. It's not the way we want to do business.'' Minnesota Power spokesman Eric Olson said there may be a role for the federal government in issues covering several states. "But I wouldn't say it's anything dire,'' he said. Not surprisingly, the strongest words locally against Abraham's statements came from those opposing the Arrowhead-Weston proposal. "He was talking about federal eminent domain,'' state Rep. Martin Reynolds, D-Ladysmith, said. "Hasn't the guy ever heard of Waco and Ruby Ridge and a whole bunch of other things? Is he looking to just totally tick everybody off? The federal government has no place in this.'' Reynolds has sponsored legislation that would prevent utilities from using eminent domain to build transmission lines. South Range farmer and Arrowhead-Weston foe Mark Liebaert also opposes Abraham's idea. "Do you think the states know better, or do you think the federal government knows better, when it comes to deciding routes for transmission lines?'' he said. Liebaert sees Abraham's statement as an attempt to pressure states to approve more transmission lines. "I think it's a pipe dream that will be opposed even by the Republican states,'' he said. "The states don't want to give up their right to choose these routes.''

Both Liebaert and Reynolds see transmission lines of limited value in the future, as new ways of generating electricity are developed. Others say there will always be a need to move electricity from where it's generated to where it's needed. Transmission networks across the nation have become increasingly strained since 1996, when the federal government ruled that any utility or broker could send electricity over any available transmission line at the same cost as the utility owning the line. The impact of that ruling, with America's growing economy and appetite for electricity, are straining the transmission system. Between 1996 and 1998, the number of major blackouts across the United States increased 64 percent.

The New York Times contributed to this story.

C.U.R.E. - Citizens United for Responsible Electricity P.O. Box 43 Brantwood, WI 54513 715 - 564 - 3362 / 715 - 453 - 5575 www.toxicelectricity.com or view more articles at: www.strayvoltage.org

-- B. Carol (katnip364@aol.com), November 04, 2001.


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