and JESUS SAID>what does it profit a man/woman-if you gain the whole world & lose your soul??or what can a man give in exchange for his soul???---seems like our soul is important. probably more important than our petty-concern,s in life! probably more important ,than what other,s think!

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 26, 2000

Answers

I would rather have the world.You can have heaven.

-- Dan Newsome (BOONSTAR1@webtv.net), June 26, 2000.

What is the soul?What is the basis for belief in it's existance?

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 26, 2000.

But ALL that is created is impermanent, subject to decay and ending, and thus inherently a state of ill-being, and therefore Selfless, for the true nature of Absolute Reality ITSELF is not truly part of or in these manifestations, this round of playing "sand-castles" -- this vast puppet show of make-believe fiction, this delusion supported by a state of Self-Ignorance.

According to Buddhism, any "Being" that does not resolve to attain Self-Enlightenment and True Reality will continue to "reform" these constructed fabricated realities of sense desire, form and formlessness. Continuous future rebirth will be and each "life" will be good or bad, happiness or unhappiness, pleasure or pain, or a combination of the two, all according to the good or evil PAST deeds done of act, speech and thought, with MIND being the forerunner of all manifestations of constructed realities and created fabricated individual entity within such conditioned, made states of existence.

In short, a pendulum of rebirth, going back and forth continuously between hells, heavens and the physical universe, UNTIL the SELF of each "Being" decides to make an end of all manifesting, an end to living vicariously through constructions of artificial realities, to make an ESCAPE from what has been created, from what has become a tangled decayed, putrid manifested mass of suffering, pain and anguish perpetuated by craving, hatred, lust, delusion, illusion and ignorance.

The evidence of perpetuating, continuous rebirth and reforming, with future "lives" determined according to former deeds done in PAST lives, can be readily seen in the wide diversity of Beings born into this world who immediately have great good fortune or have great misfortune, EVEN THOUGH NO DEEDS OF ANY KIND HAVE YET BEEN DONE IN THEIR NEW LIFE! Think about this and then compare your "present" life to the lives of the other five billion "human" Beings in this world, and indeed to the lives of ALL the worlds different types of Beings.

The goal of Buddhism is to escape this REPEATING ILL that has arisen, this repeating rebirth and reforming, via the destruction of the "craving" for senses and sensations of the senses, for rebecoming as this or that, for delusion and for ignorance.

And if you think the world is NOT really full of despair, suffering, pain and anguish, YOU NEED TO EXAMINE CLOSELY the nature of this world you live in without the "rose-colored glasses."

Just because in this life YOUR suffering and anguish are not "too bad" you may not yet be immune from rebirth where your next life is as horrible as tens of millions of human lives are NOW this very day throughout this world.

Think of "life" and ALL THAT HAS BEEN CREATED as sort of like an addictive repeating daydream  very, very old, incalculable in age, long corrupted, perverted, debased, become tainted by decomposition.

To awake from the fantasy, the first step is for the Self to investigate, analyze and reflect on what is really going on around here, and thus see, that ALL IS IMPERMANENT, and then to see and know that what is impermanent, fleeting and subject to change is inherently ILL, ANGUISH and UNHAPPINESS.

Then, with Perfect Intuitive Wisdom, KNOW that whatever is impermanent, subject to change and therefore ill cannot be SELF IN ITS TRUE NATURE. The Self THEN must begin to look for a means of escape from this addictive daydream, this nightmarish artificial reality that has arisen that IS pain, anguish and suffering.

Has it not yet occurred to you: WHY do I, liable to birth, disease, anguish, decay, aging and death seek those things likewise liable to birth, disease, anguish, decay, aging and death, that which too is impermanent.

Would it not be to my assured permanent well-being that I, although being liable to birth because of Self, to disease, anguish, decay, aging and death, having seen the peril of what is likewise liable to birth, should instead seek Nirvana, TRUE PERMANENT ABSOLUTE REALITY, the permanent security from this CREATED manifested mass of pain, anguish and suffering.

Material shape, feelings, perception, activities and mind/consciousness are an addictive lure to perpetuating false realities within these fabricated realms of existence, these conditioned, made, artificial, temporary, transitory, fictitious states of existence. Ultimately, desire for these constructions MUST be put away in order for the permanent bliss of True Reality to be realized.

And WHAT IS SELF, True Permanent Absolute Reality? From the perspective of a constructed creation in a constructed world in a fabricated reality, a "Selfless" mind could never know the nature of the Uncreated. True Reality of Self is unfathomable, inconceivable, immutable, inscrutable, deep, boundless, unmeasurable, markless, signless, undefinable, incomprehensible.

Only Self, Supremely Awake, can know ITSELF. And the Self of a given manifested created "Being" that is FULLY awake, that is called a BUDDHA.

Now what is seen, heard, sensed, known, attained, sought after, thought out by Mind is impermanent. Perfect "CORRECT" views cannot be created from something created, a construction that is Selfless. Only True Permanent Absolute Reality, through ITS Self-Realization, Intuitive Wisdom and FULL Self-Awakened Enlightenment can KNOW.

Absolute True Reality IS Self. But since ABSOLUTE TRUE REALITY is incomprehensible, is not the view then that "this"  a manifested BEING after dying, I as this personality, this individuality -- will become permanent, lasting eternal, not liable to change, I will stand fast unto the eternal, is this not complete folly since ALL that is created and impermanent is essentially fantasy, a mental puppet show. This is why a Buddhist eliminates all false views and the vain conceit that "IN" what is CREATED and IMPERMANENT there is "anything permanent" that can truly say, "I AM, MINE, I SHALL BE and I AM THE DOER."

But "through" what is manifested, the following can be said:

Body, feelings, perception, activities and mind/consciousness are not the Self. Self does not have body, feelings, perception, activities and mind/consciousness. Body, feelings, perception, activities and mind/consciousness are not in the Self. The Self is not in the body, feelings, perception, activities, mind/consciousness. These constructed things in fabricated fantasy realities, according to a Being who follows fundamental Buddhism, are looked at as, "These CREATED things are NOT mine, these am I not, these things are not the Self of me, and are not the Self of all Beings in all fabricated realities."

The Ten Fetters that "bind" Beings to perpetuating themselves in artificial, manufactured, fictitious realities are:

Notions of a permanent individual personality, soul or self Attachment to wrong views, rites, rituals, dogma, superstitions Doubt and confusion Liking, attachment, passions, sense desires, lust, greed Disliking, aversion, hatred, malice, illwill, spite Lust and craving for perpetuating forms and hereafters of Fine Materiality Lust and craving for perpetuating formlessness and hereafters of Immateriality Wrong views of conceit plus pride and arrogance, declaring "I am the doer" Excitement for constructions and perpetuating artificial realities, Self-Delusion and Self-Illusion Addiction to Self-Deception and a complete state of Self-Ignorance, necessary for the ILLUSION of artificial realities and individuality to seem real, necessary for not seeing the impermanence and ill for what it is, and the pain and peril associated with these addictive, ill-conceived, conditioned, fleeting states of fabricated fictitious existence. This comprises "the engine" that drives the continuation and repetition for each Point of View of Self.

The goal is to destroy the addictions, the cravings, that perpetuate the manifesting of constructed realities where there is the VICARIOUS experience of senses, sensations and feelings within constructed worlds within fabricated realms, all of which are impermanent, ill and Selfless. This ending of all cravings, addictions and manifesting equals Nirvana, the True Permanent State of Reality, FREED from what has arisen.

Buddhism and the Dharma (dhamma) or doctrine is the Path to ending the addictions, the craving, the becoming again and again of constructed false states of existence; and instead, attaining the goal, THE TRUE STATE OF PERMANENT REALITY. And with the realization of that true state of permanent reality, that is the end of all suffering and anguish, the ending of all rebirth, the ending of all that is created, impermanent, ill and Selfless.

All craving, all addictions, all fetters MUST ultimately be renounced, destroyed, ended, forsaken and abandoned in order to end all rebirth, to end all renewal of false manufactured realities, and to win Nirvana, the Deathless, the true permanent state THAT IS IN FACT THE ONLY TRUE REALITY.

All constructed false states of existence and all constructed creations of all elements of both materiality and immateriality, material shape, body, sense organs, internal and external sense fields, sensations, feelings, experiences, perception, activities, mind, consciousness, thought and mental states are impermanent, ill and without Self. All constructions from a Buddhist perspective are looked at as, "Not mine, these creations am I not, these are not for me the Self, the Self of me." The true nature of Self, which is not OF or IN these things is the Unborn, the Uncreated, the Deathless, THAT which is inconceivable.

"Whatsoever, anywhere, in anything that has become, manifested; is put together, constructed; is thought out and affected, mentally created; is dependent on something else, on anything else, IS IMPERMANENT. What is impermanent that is inherently unhappiness, anguish, ill. What is impermanent, unhappiness, anguish and ill that is not mine, or of me, that am I not, that is not the Self of me."

SELF IS; but this, all else, is not. What is permanent is what is real. What is impermanent is what is not real.

All "this"  everything -- is created, thought out and affected, fleeting, impermanent, and is but a Selfless fantasy, an exhausted intellection, a notion, an imagining, a state of delusion, ALL made of thought, which must inherently end in dissolution. Everything is a decomposing round of make-believe fiction. And for one who no longer has any attachment or desire for what does not exist in truth, there is no longer mental anguish or rebirth.

Things are created, they are inherently subject to decay, and then finally, they are dissolved again For a very long, long time each Mind, each "point of view" of Self in this round of make-believe, has been tainted by craving, by lust, by hatred, by delusion and by illusion. And by a tainted Mind, and point of view of Self, "Beings" are tainted. By Purity of Mind, and point of view of Self, Beings are made pure. Mind and each point of view of Self have been ensnared in delusion, addicted to illusion, craving the pleasures of the concept of six spheres of sense; craving individuality and continuing rebirth as this or that; craving false views that support the delusion; and craving ignorance to continue what has been created, what has arisen.

Consider this: If the cravings and fetters of a given Being  a point of view of Self  had been destroyed in the previous "expression" of a constructed reality, there would have been no becoming again, NO new rebirth, no reforming of a new body and mind and continuing point of view. And thus, there would have been no new struggle, no new suffering, pain, anguish, grief, sorrow, lamentations, despair, sickness, disease, old age, decay and death. Each Being, each point of view of Self, must resolve, sooner or later, that IT SHALL NOT BE AGAIN, AND MINE IT SHALL NOT BE. This point of view has come to closure  Nirvana.

But until "a point of view of Self" awakes, makes an end of the craving for senses, sensations and pleasures of the senses; for perpetuating continued individuality, the rebecoming again and again of point of view in these manifestations; for delusion and false views; and for ignorance; then these artificial "created" realities will continue, and the pain and anguish and suffering of them.

And while these fabricated artificial existences continue, there is the CONTINUED PERIL of future pain, anguish and suffering, of future rebirth, manifesting AGAIN within LOWER fabricated worlds of increasing anguish because of past EVIL deeds of thought, word and action.

Until a created "Being" wins Nirvana, comes to closure, winning the Deathless, then for that Being what has been CREATED will continue, each Being wayfaring among constructed worlds and realms  high, middle and low.

There will be fruition of GOOD deeds of thought, speech and action; AND ALSO there will be fruition of EVIL deeds of thought, speech and action.

There will be MERIT in deeds of giving, sacrifice, offering and of loving kindness and compassion in thought, speech and actions toward other Beings (of all types); and there will be DEMERIT in such deeds as lying, slander, gossip, abusive speech, killing, stealing, sensual and sexual misconduct, wrong views and malevolent thought, speech and actions toward other Beings (of all types).

Beings ARE the heirs of their deeds. Deeds determine karma and karma determines future births and future events. This is how things work. This is what determines the different "storylines" for each Being for each life.

And this world is, and the world beyond is. And in this world there are "Beings" who have properly traveled THE RIGHT PATH OF ESCAPE TO NIRVANA, who have won THE GOAL, who have completed "the great quest" for the ultimate truth. They have destroyed the addictions, the cravings, the delusion and illusion, and they have reached Perfection, who of themselves by Supernormal Knowledge have fully realized this world, the world beyond, and WHO SEE THE WAY THINGS TRULY ARE, and proclaim it.

In conclusion, think of Buddhism as a correct means of ESCAPE from a state of make-believe. And escape from the satisfaction of the senses and the peril of the senses. It could be thought of like this: It is like being in a DARK theatre, vicariously enjoying the "make-believe experience" of a movie  fabricated existences in a fabricated reality. But the theatre is very old, decayed, on fire and now a source of pain. The Dharma of Buddhism is the EXIT SIGN.

If you want to escape permanently the pain, anguish and suffering, and continuous cycle of rebirth, struggle, anguish, decay, dying and death, and all the future pain and peril that go with it, you follow the exit sign. Buddhism IS the sign that says: THIS IS THE WAY TO SAFETY, THIS IS THE WAY OUT OF ANGUISH. The choice of when to escape is the decision of each Being.

If you want to pursue this religion, you should reflect on what you have read  investigating, analyzing, testing and weighing up the meaning for yourself.

You should purchase the Pali Text Society translated discourse volumes, beginning with the Middle Length Sayings, for more detailed study; and you should begin the Eightfold Noble Path, a course leading to practice and concentration where Knowledge, Insight and Intuitive Wisdom WILL arise within the SELF of YOU as you progress along the Noble Path, to be maintained until you win The Goal, Nirvana, True Reality Self-Realized, freed from ill, freed from all that has become, freed from all that is created, freed from all that has arisen, freed from this state of Self-Delusion, freed from this round of make-believe fiction.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 26, 2000.

WOW ZOOB,that sounds like work.actually major=escapism. GOD ceated man,for fellowship .& too take dominion of earth. sorta =FATHER & SONS LTD.it,s really a neat system,lotsa benefit,s. problem is an archangel[satan] messed up the program. as to your soul[the you]individual=feelings-emotions-mind-will,was meant to be in subjection to spirit,but we sorta got CUT=OFF from HOLY=SPIRIT.=JESUS get,s us re-connected.yes life can be a bummer,but it ,s temporary.and we get trained to rule & reign. satan is an intruder[squater]=major=deciver. HE doesn,t want you to know your=REAL FATHER!!!!!!!!!!

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 26, 2000.

Al-d

Thank you for being faithful and continuing to post here. I need your posts to give me the extra 'push' to get me through each day.

-- I need Your (posts@al-d.com), June 27, 2000.

Interesting insight Al,considering that your faith seems intrinsically more denialist in it's dogmatic mandate of hiding from any view that challenges your limited cosmology.differant=wrong=denial=Al. What ever keeps ya sober,big guy.Hang in there,there's worse things in life than aggreeing to dissagree.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 27, 2000.