I am planning on doing a massive mulching on my garden for the fall garden here in Central Texas..I was wondering if anyone that has a fireant population has done a mulch garden and if the ants were a problem? Thanks for your input!

-- Doreen (livinginskin@yahoo.com), June 24, 2000

Answers

Doreen, have the fire ants made it out to ya'll yet. I'm over by Carthage/Marshall, and I've got plenty to spare. I don't think mulch of any kind will deter them. I put like six inches of mulch on some areas of my garden this year, trying to keep down weeds, and the fire ants just love it. Now if you put down that fabric mulch, that might slow em down a little, but I'm sure they'd just surface their exit right where your plants are. I sure hate to put any poison in my garden, but if I didn't sevin dust stuff, I'd have nothing, and I have philosophical problems with feeding the *******fire ants. I use to think there were good and bad ants, until fire ants arrived. Now, all ants that aren't fire ants are good ants. I'll go so far as to give em something to eat if possible. HA, just remembered...the enemy of my enemy is my friend. And fire ants'll take over if you let em. Good luck.

-- phil briggs (phillipbriggs@thenett.com), June 25, 2000.

So do you think a deep much will just be a nicer home for the nasty fire ants? I was considering a first layer of cedar chips followed by super heavy rooten hay......I really don't want to encourage the fire ants, but I can't keep up with the weeding either! Thanks for your views!

-- Doreen (livinginskin@yahoo.com), June 26, 2000.

I haven't found cedar to be a repellant for fire ants. I've got lots of red cedar logs stockpiled all over the place. And I'm always seeing fire ant mounds covering up the ends of logs. I pulled some cedar poles out of a barn I salvaged back in the winter, and between the outer shell and the red sapwood, fire ant's had colonized. They weren't eating it of course, but they were in all the cracks and crannies, raising their babies.

Mulch is good, I need to get around to remulching my garden, but a paying contracts eating my farm time. But I don't think mulching'll slow down our friend the fire ants. Good luck.

-- phil briggs (phillipbriggs@thenett.com), June 27, 2000.

Doreen, Here's how the mulch and fireants/ants combination worked for us. We had lots of fireants before we mulched. Everywhere! Not to hold down the ants but to conserve moisture and inhibit weeds, we mulched everything, yard, orchard and garden, with 6" of oak leaves. The mulch, with a little help from Roundup, got rid of the weeds in the garden and even got rid of the peachtree borers in the orchard. The ants? Well, there aren't as many colonies, but the ones I find are larger and hard to find until you kneel down in the mulch. Would we do it again? In a second! Mulch, deep mulch, is a cure for almost anything that ails 'ya. Good luck, John and Pat

-- John and Pat James (jjames@n-jcenter.com), June 28, 2000.

Was just mosing around and found this lovely site. I'm in south central Texas. Food grade Diatomaceous Earth takes care of a mound of fire ants in a couple of hours. (The filter grade DE used for swimming pools is heated/treated, won't work, and will kill your pets and critters.) Some folks feed the food grade DE to their livestock as a dewormer. It's in many of our foods, such as cake mixes. Available at nurseries and feed stores. I sprinkle it on the floor of the chicken coop and don't have flies in there. (The chickens also eat a lot of the fire ants.) DE doesn't poison; it slits the insects skin and dries out the body. It feels/looks similar to talcum powder. With the government removing everything that works from the marketplace, DE may wind up being the only thing we have left! Research and try. You'll like the results.

-- rogo (rogo1208@yahoo.com), June 29, 2000.

I use Food Grade DE in my feed and also sweep the floor in the goat pen with it. I was wondering if I put a bunch of that down and deep mulch over it if you think it will keep the ants at bay.

I muclhed probaby 4-6 inches this year and had a ton of the fire ants in my garden, so bad that I couldn't pull weeds in many areas. I thought that maybe it wasn't deep enough or I should have used something as the first layer to deter them.

I am doing everything completely organically as I hope to be able to do something like a CSA in few years and it's super important to me to be ala naturel. Thanks for all of your thoughts and advice!

-- Doreen (livinginskin@yahoo.com), June 29, 2000.

In places along the coast here in Maine we have European biting ants, likely brought over in exotic plants for summer estates. The worst infestation is Mt. Desert island (Bar Harbor, Acadia National Park). I just read in the bar Harbor paper earlier this year (clipped it for my in-laws in red ant territory) that local officials are looking at a new insecticide called hydramethylnon, a granular bait that targets the queen ant. Trade name Amdro. It's apparently pretty benign compared to Diazanon. the usual ant poison up here. Amdro is new on the market, not sure if it even works against red ants, but might be worth looking at.

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), June 29, 2000.

I used Amdro for many, many years (it's been out west for ages) and it IS terrific. It and Diatomaceous Earth will get rid of the fire (or any) ant mound in about the same length of time. (That's been my experience.) Altho I used Amdro with my large livestock around (I don't stall/pen), I started using DE when I got chickens 'cause I wanted them to live! (They also free range.) The chooks do a good job eating the fire ants, but the chooks tend to stay within an acre of their pens. (Water in there and food hoppers always filled.)

I sprayed my house monthly for years with Diazonon (sp?), but haven't for quite some time. BTW, it's on the hit list and will be off the market soon. As time goes on, and the government keeps removing products, DE may be the only thing left.

I really don't understand this country. All the tools are being taken away from our farmers. Most of our food now comes from out of the country ~ and these countries use the products we can't, like DDT. It no doubt helps to explain why so many folks are going back to the land and growing their own, whether fruits, veggies or meat!

-- Rogo (rogo1208@yahoo.com), June 29, 2000.

I really don't mind having any less poison on my food. You are right that the small holder is being strangled, but that's a long story and has a lot to do with the evolution of the term "agribusiness", which to me is akin to pickles in my blackberry cobbler-not a good idea!

-- Doreen (livinginskin@yahoo.com), June 30, 2000.

I LOVE discussions like this! Im going to save them to read next January or so, when you southerners are sending sympathies up north here where its 40-below with snow drifts up to our chins.

Ive never seen a fire ant.

The point: Every place has its ups and downs. People looking for the perfect place to homestead simply have to choose their poison.

Id certainly appreciate a longer growing season. But hearing of some of the problems that go with that the northland aint so bad after all, in my estimation.

Not everyone would want to snowshoe under the pines on a crisp, moonlit winter night, and then go home to throw another log on the fire.Theyd rather put up with fire ants.

To each his own.

-- Jd (belangerf@tds.net), July 01, 2000.

J.D. I have plenty to spare. I can mail you as many as you want.

I usually leave some mounds alone in out of the way places. I find that they kill queens of other mounds when they swarm. If you do kill all of the mounds, the next time they swarm, you have ten times as many mounds to deal with.

-- phil briggs (phillipbriggs@thenett.com), July 01, 2000.

I swear I read somewhere that if you have more than one mound, to take a shovel full of ants from each mound and put it on top of a different one - something about they fight to the death?? Anyone else heard that one?!

-- Polly (tigger@moultrie.com), July 01, 2000.

I heard that but I also read that fire ants will join to gether if a mound is attacked, the neighbors will come to help...I don't know for certain.

Jd, you are absolutely right, it takes all kinds and no single place is paradise! I lived in Wisconsin for 22 years, I would rather have fireants and grasshoppers in abundance than frostbite. Every place has detractions and attractions, just depends on individual preferences and circumstances. I would rather sweat than freeze. But I must admit I am considering buying a window AC unit.

If anyone is interested in starting their own fire ant colony, I would be happy to send you some along with Phil. They must be good for something.....God knows what, I sure don't!

Phil, my chickens don't eat fire ants. What breed do you have?

-- Doreen (livinginskin@yahoo.com), July 02, 2000.

Can someone help? I found a large number of orange colored ants in my mulch pile today. I don't think they are fire ants as we live in Indiana and they did not attach the shovel. The are about 1/3" long and are highly concentrated in the mulch pile. Suggestions?

-- Dee Edgcomb (booktornado@netnitco.com), April 08, 2001.

We use Logic brand of fire ant control. It is a two step process; a bait with growth regulator and then a poison if you are in a hurry. If I understand correctly the bait/growth regulator causes the queen to lay sterile eggs and is formulated for fire ants only (about one teaspoon full per mound). We've never used the second poison application. With no newly born ants the mound will die off in about six weeks. To just poison a mound disturbs it and causes it to move as many fire ant mounds now have two queens. It is a slower process, but it has worked for us, our native ants have come back. We have to check and reapply occasionally as the neighbor's ants will attempt to move in.

-- Jerry (neljer@txcyber.com), April 09, 2001.