the APOSTLE PAUL, hated jesus=with a passion-UNTIL he was changed. you never know who the next paul is.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 24, 2000

Answers

al-d,

Have you ever had a "road to Damascus" epiphany? Do you personally know anyone who has? My faith would come easier if God revealed himself directly to me.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), June 24, 2000.

Lars, could you handle it? What would your expectations be? Sight, smell, sound, sensation?

Not judging, just posing legitimate questions.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), June 24, 2000.

HI LARS,my road back to GOD was the road of 'a prodigal son' i ran from GOD for year,s.I WAS AFRAID OF HIM,BUT ALSO HATED HIM. i wanted to avoid hell,[but put myself there]but i wasn,t sure[faith] of his love.i subconciously thought he was,like my cruel stepfather. [distorted satanic=view]i just about=self-destructed.finally i asked HIM=if your the GOD of love=please help me,i,ve had it. or be merciful & kill me!HE heard my [sincere cry] & helped me! now after all these years, i BELIEVE in HIS LOVE. I TRY TO OBEY=NOT OUT OF fear=BUT OUT OF GRATITUDE.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 24, 2000.

al-d, that was a remarkable post. Gratitude is the attitude, my friend. And gratitude begins with humility. Ego must be subservient!

He looks at me, I look at him. When one can recognize His Divine Grace in one's life, feel his energy coursing through the body as gentle as a warm summer drizzle, seek shelter under the precipice of his peace, you are home.

First we must cry out as a child for his mother.

"Mother I give you my soul call. You can't remain hidden anymore. You can't remain hidden anymore. Give my Mother a soul call. She can't remain hidden anymore.

Come out of the silent sky, come out of the mountain glen. Come out of the silent sky, come out of the mountain glen. Come out of my secret soul, Mother come out of my secret soul. Come out of my cave of silence. Come out of my cave of silence." ------ Paramahansa Yogananda

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), June 24, 2000.

"My faith would come easier if God revealed himself directly to me."

Why does it have to be conditional? That is the sad irony in the way most people misunderstand faith... they don't believe anything until they see it, but if they believed it, they would see it. You need to be willing to open the mind and see beyond the mere illusions, then the truest reality is experienced.

Look in the mirror, look at the beauty and perfection of nature, and the universe all around you. Do you not see the existence of God in Everything? If you do not, it is only because you are not allowing yourself.

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), June 24, 2000.

Folks:

The question is; did Jesus actually exist or is it all myth. We know [if you have spent time doing the reseach] that the NT is not accurate or historical. See:

EZboard discussion of the Myth of Jesus

Read the 139 or so posts and comment. Out of here tomorrow.

Best wishes,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), June 24, 2000.

Sorry:

On reading my previous post, it sounds like an order given to one of my classes. You get into a rut. In contrast, I think that you will be interested in some [not all] of the information. Enjoy.

Best wishes,,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), June 24, 2000.

Sleazy Board as reference material???

-- ROTFLMAO!! (that's@good.one), June 24, 2000.

ROTFLMAO:

Take my word for it; this one will suprise you if you are willing to wade through the posts.

Best wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), June 24, 2000.

SO? the millions of martyr,s thru the ages,we,re confused? get real .

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 24, 2000.

HI BINGO,how does father GOD , get to be mother???? who is THE SAVIOR for you? beware of false CHRIST,S.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 24, 2000.

For many,divinity exists without the need for godhead or dogmatic belief structures.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 25, 2000.

HI ZOOB, havn,t talked at yu for awhile. yes [no accountability] is popular now-aday,s. do it yourself-religion,is cozy. what a deception. your bhudda,can,t/won,t save your soul. nice thought,s are not gonna cut it with the TRUE GOD.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 25, 2000.

ZOOB, THE BIBLE SAY,S WE HAVE AN ADVOCATE WITH THE FATHER. do you have an advocate?bhudda didn,t die for you!! why worship an IDOL, when you can know the TRUE GOD IN HEAVEN??? can you call bhudda=our father who art in heaven????

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 25, 2000.

Sorry Al but the concept of a changeless god or soul seems contrary to the nature of the universe.I'm not concerned for the fate of my soul as I've never had any reason to believe in it's existance.What you point to and label "soul" I see as an aggregate dependant co- arising of the impermenant factors of form,feelings,perceptions,mental formations and consciousness.None of those five things separatly posits what could be called a "soul" or "self" and yet when we look for the "self" or "soul" only these five aggregates can be found.It's ok that you scorn my religion as you would seem to only have the capacity to blindly follow you own somewhat deranged understanding and christians have a long history of scorn(and violence),sad if not surprising.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 25, 2000.

And al,I don't worship Buddha,I venerate his understanding and compassion.Although I doubt your dogmatic zeal will allow you to understand the differance.peace.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 25, 2000.

ZOOB, satan gives a false=peace[deception]many religion,s offer=peace!?JESUS said''there is a WAY 'that seem,s right-but the end is [eternal] death!!you say,you have no soul!no-self!then why study bhuddism?or who IN YOU, is following his teaching,s??? is it your liver,your stomach,your tonsil,s??? dear zoob,your decieved!! bhuddism won,t save!! we ALL need a savior,we are ALL imperfect[not our fault]if you want too get rid of self,gEt the gift of GOD=JESUS!! self-effort[self-righteosness] is of satan!! he hides in religion!! WE CAN,T SAVE=OURSELVES!!

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 25, 2000.

Ah the Sabbath, what wonders will appear. Growing up in the inner City of Detroit, I have fond memories of the horse heads and winos that, upon awakening from their Saturday night travels, would spend hours screaming to the heavens in a futile attempt to purge the inner demons. Driscol, when I look at your gibberish I see those poor lost souls in my minds eye and wish for you a better ending. How does Marianne put up with you?

-- Ra (tion@l.1), June 25, 2000.

Can anyone tell me what ancient royal family, or upper class rich family, was supposed to have started the myth of Jesus being a savior. I personally think that Jesus lived, and was a good man in his time, but I don't think is is anymore of a savior than my cat.

I would really like to know about the supposed myth that brought the world to it's knees worshipping Gawd in order to secure a private berth in heaven. This was on the old TB forum, I think.

By the way, can you believe there is a Christian Porn site. It's called christslove.com/ Enjoy al.d

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), June 25, 2000.

DEAR GILDA, 2 wrong,s don,t make a right. get over your bitterness,from past. you really don,t hate GOD?JESUS,YOUR ANGER IS the false CHRIST you percieve.don,t hide behind other,s ERROR!! IF YOU DON,T WANT TOO BE ACCOUNTABLE=ADMIT IT. rebellion is the spirit of withcraft. JESUS IS LORD--and your bitterness won,t change that!!!

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 25, 2000.

Gilda, stop with the cat alreadyyoure killing me! ROTFLMAO.

The one thing that biblical scholars agree on is that the first known writings of and about Jesus took place 50 YEARS AFTER HIS DEATH. Ya think it may be possible that the whole deal got somewhat distorted? My money is on the cat.

-- Ra (tion@l.1), June 25, 2000.

There is no Easter Bunny.There is no Santa Claus.There is no God.Your so called God is only what man has created.

-- Dan Newsome (BOONSTAR1@webtv.net), June 25, 2000.

DEAR DAN, my bible tell,s me not to argue with a fool! it also say,s ''the fool has said-there is no GOD''

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 25, 2000.

Hi al-d. Noticed you addressed questions my way.

HI BINGO,how does father GOD , get to be mother????

This is personification is it not? I don't experience God as male or female. It makes it easier for me to grasp the concept of God via the use of personification. Makes it easier for me to connect via chanting, prayer, japa. The spiritual journey is an arduous one. As long as the techniques don't obfuscate the goal we're OK. IMO, of course.

who is THE SAVIOR for you? beware of false CHRIST,S.

No savior for me thank you. I have help, no doubt there. But I would never place my karma solely onto the back of someone else. I earn it therefore I must burn it.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), June 25, 2000.

Nobody knows de trouble ah seen; nobody knows but Jesus

-- (nemesis@awol.com), June 25, 2000.

A SIGN OF END-TIMES=INCREASE IN MOCKER,S & SCOFFER,S. PROPHECY FULLFILLED. GLORY TO GOD.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 25, 2000.

Al, I'm not mocking

-- (nemesis@awol.com), June 25, 2000.

al-d -- do you think your time table for end times is maybe TRYING to make it so, because you believe it is so? Kinda like the doomers that were banking on Y2k being their deliverance from the oppressive gubmint?

No man knows the day or hour. Don't throw in the "yeah but we can know the season", cause even the apostles were waiting for his return THEN.

One day is as a thousand years.

nemesis, was not mocking al-d. Judge, jury and executioner again al :-)

-- (doomerstomper@usa.net), June 25, 2000.

.D/STOMPER, NOW YOUR JUDGING ME, i wasn,t answering nemisis post. JESUS said>when you see these things happening=LOOK UP,your redemption draws nigh!the big-sign is ''the apostacy of the church. the message is no longer WHAT sayeth the LORD JESUS, but the message is =send the money-we need the money-please send the money now! it don,t take no faith to hustle! and all this 'let,s unite-let,s take the world for jesus jazz. moral-majority garbage.no wonder the world scoff,s at so-called christianity.--lotsa talk-no power. JESUS NEVER SAID TO preach=morality, HE said look unto him & be saved!!HE DOES THE CHANGING!!!!!

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 25, 2000.

Ah Shit!, I am sent on another mission, it never ends. Okay, here is the story. 40 years ago, I was a child with two younger siblings, parents were two weekend alcoholics. Weekend entertainment, you understand. Lived on 5 acres with remote (rich) neighbors. Let me lay the ground work by stating my Father had two Brothers, mean as snakes. (Thrice in their misery). One Brother was shot and killed by a Policeman. The other Brother was so mean and dastardly, he was killed by his own Son for physically harming the Mother. Therefore, it only stands to reason (sampling), that the last son would follow suit (as he did with the violence intent). My Mother's side were religious, and I caught the flux from them. Each time these drinking violent episodes would occur, with knife at Mother's throat, or gun aimed , ready to fire, I had no one else to call upon, other than God, and Jesus. I prayed to Him, and each time, the crisis was averted. They all died of old age, having come through their crisis. And there was love and kindness abound for 20 years after. Could prayers to Buddah have brought the same result? Damn, I don't know. I didn't know Buddah then. What ever belief I had, worked.

-- Real Life (without@SUV.com), June 25, 2000.

Buddhists should not pray to Buddha but rather endeavor to put Buddha's principles of living into practice.Buddha is not our saivor but rather is the one who found and shows us the way.Yet it is the individule who is responsible for his (or her) liberation from the cycle of birth-life-death-rebirth.Human life is a wonderful opurtunity,don't squander it hoping some long dead myth messiah will save you from doing the work yourself.carpe diem.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 26, 2000.

Here al,now think careduly before answering.

An Introduction to Buddhism Mike Butler ---------------------------------------------------------------------

This short essay is intended to give a brief introduction to Buddhism. It will discuss the way Buddhists perceive the world, the four main teachings of the Buddha, the Buddhist view of the self, the relationship between this self and the various ways in which it responds to the world, the Buddhist path and the final goal.

The Three Marks of Existence Buddhism has been described as a very pragmatic religion. It does not indulge in metaphysical speculation about first causes; there is no theology, no worship of a diety or deification of the Buddha. Buddhism takes a very straightforward look at our human condition; nothing is based on wishful thinking, at all. Everything that the Buddha taught was based on his own observation of the way things are. Everything that he taught can be verified by our own observation of the way things are.

If we look at our life, very simply, in a straightforward way, we see that it is marked with frustration and pain. This is because we attempt to secure our relationship with the "world out there", by solidifying our experiences in some concrete way. For example, we might have dinner with someone we admire very much, everything goes just right, and when we get home later we begin to fantasize about all the things we can do with our new-found friend, places we can go etc. We are going through the process of trying to cement our relationship. Perhaps, the next time we see our friend, she/he has a headache and is curt with us; we feel snubbed, hurt, all our plans go out the window. The problem is that the "world out there" is constantly changing, everything is impermanent and it is impossible to make a permanent relationship with anything, at all.

If we examine the notion of impermanence closely and honestly, we see that it is all-pervading, everything is marked by impermanence. We might posit an eternal consciousness principle, or higher self, but if we examine our consciousness closely we see that it is made up of temporary mental processes and events. We see that our "higher self" is speculative at best and imaginary to begin with. We have invented the idea to secure ourselves, to cement our relationship, once again. Because of this we feel uneasy and anxious, even at the best of times. It is only when we completely abandon clinging that we feel any relief from our queasyness.

These three things: pain, impermanence and egolessness are known as the three marks of existence.

The Four Noble Truths The first sermon that the Buddha preached after his enlightenment was about the four noble truths. The first noble truth is that life is frustrating and painful. In fact, if we are honest with ourselves, there are times when it is downright miserable. Things may be fine with us, at the moment, but, if we look around, we see other people in the most appalling condition, children starving, terrorism, hatred, wars, intolerance, people being tortured and we get a sort of queasy feeling whenever we think about the world situation in even the most casual way. We, ourselves, will someday grow old, get sick and eventually die. No matter how we try to avoid it, someday we are going to die. Even though we try to avoid thinking about it, there are constant reminders that it is true.

The second noble truth is that suffering has a cause. We suffer because we are constantly struggling to survive. We are constantly trying to prove our existence. We may be extremely humble and self- deprecating, but even that is an attempt to define ourselves. We are defined by our humility. The harder we struggle to establish ourselves and our relationships, the more painful our experience becomes.

The third noble truth is that the cause of suffering can be ended. Our struggle to survive, our effort to prove ourselves and solidify our relationships is unnecessary. We, and the world, can get along quite comfortably without all our unnecessary posturing. We could just be a simple, direct and straight-forward person. We could form a simple relationship with our world, our coffee, spouse and friend. We do this by abandoning our expectations about how we think things should be.

This is the fourth noble truth: the way, or path to end the cause of suffering. The central theme of this way is meditation. Meditation, here, means the practice of mindfulness/awareness, shamata/vipashyana in scanscrit. We practice being mindful of all the things that we use to torture ourselves with. We become mindful by abandoning our expectations about the way we think things should be and, out of our mindfulness, we begin to develop awareness about the way things really are. We begin to develop the insight that things are really quite simple, that we can handle ourselves, and our relationships, very well as soon as we stop being so manipulative and complex.

The Five Skandhas The Buddhist doctrine of egolessness seems to be a bit confusing to westerners. I think this is because there is some confusion as to what is meant by ego. Ego, in the Buddhist sense, is quite different from the Freudian ego. The Buddhist ego is a collection of mental events classified into five categories, called skandhas, loosely translated as bundles, or heaps.

If we were to borrow a western expression, we could say that "in the beginning" things were going along quite well. At some point, however, there was a loss of confidence in the way things were going. There was a kind of primordial panic which produced confusion about what was happening. Rather than acknowledging this loss of confidence, there was an identification with the panic and confusion. Ego began to form. This is known as the first skandha, the skandha of form.

After the identification with confusion, ego begins to explore how it feels about the formation of this experience. If we like the experience, we try to draw it in. If we dislike it, we try to push it away, or destroy it. If we feel neutral about it, we just ignore it. The way we feel about the experience is called the skandha of form; what we try to do about it is known as the skandha of impulse/perception.

The next stage is to try to identify, or label the experience. If we can put it into a category, we can manipulate it better. Then we would have a whole bag of tricks to use on it. This is the skandha of concept.

The final step in the birth of ego, is called the skandha of consciousness. Ego begins to churn thoughts and emotions around and around. This makes ego feel solid and real. The churning around and around is called samsara -- literally, to whirl about. The way ego feels about its situatuation (skandha of feeling) determines which of the six realms of existence it creates for itself.

The Six Realms If ego decides it likes the situation, it begins to churn up all sorts of ways to possess it. A craving to consume the situation arises and we long to satisfy that craving. Once we do, a ghost of that craving carries over and we look around for something else to consume. We get into the habitual pattern of becoming consumer oriented. Perhaps we order a piece of software for our computer. We play with it for awhile, until the novelty wears out, and then we look around for the next piece of software that has the magic glow of not being possessed yet. Soon we haven't even got the shrink wrap off the current package when we start looking for the next one. Owning the software and using it doesn't seem to be as important as wanting it, looking forward to its arrival. This is known as the hungry ghost realm where we have made an occupation out of craving. We can never find satisfaction, it is like drinking salt water to quench our thirst.

Another realm is the animal realm, or having the mind like that of an animal. Here we find security by making certain that everything is totally predictable. We only buy blue chip stock, never take a chance and never look at new possibilities. The thought of new possibilities frightens us and we look with scorn at anyone who suggests anything innovative. This realm is characterized by ignorance. We put on blinders and only look straight ahead, never to the right or left.

The hell realm is characterized by acute aggression. We build a wall of anger between ourselves and our experience. Everything irritates us, even the most innocuous, and innocent statement drives us mad with anger. The heat of our anger is reflected back on us and sends us into a frenzy to escape from our torture, which in turn causes us to fight even harder and get even angrier. The whole thing builds on itself until we don't even know if we're fighting with someone else or ourselves. We are so busy fighting that we can't find an alternative to fighting; the possibility of alternative never even occurs to us.

These are the three lower realms. One of the three higher realms is called the jealous god realm. This pattern of existence is characterized by acute paranoia. We are always concerned with "making it". Everything is seen from a competetive point of view. We are always trying to score points, and trying to prevent others from scoring on us. If someone achieves something special we become determined to out do them. We never trust anyone; we "know" they're trying to slip one past us. If someone tries to help us, we try to figure out their angle. If someone doesn't try to help us, they are being uncooperative, and we make a note to ourselves that we will get even later. "Don't get mad, get even," that's our motto.

At some point we might hear about spirituality. We might hear about the possibility of meditation techniques, imported from some eastern religion, or mystical western one, that will make our minds peaceful and absorb us into a universal harmony. We begin to meditate and perform certain rituals and we find ourselves absorbed into infinite space and blissful states of existence. Everything sparkles with love and light; we become godlike beings. We become proud of our godlike powers of meditative absorption. We might even dwell in the realm of infinite space where thoughts seldom arise to bother us. We ignore everything that doesn't confirm our godhood. We have manufactured the god realm, the highest of the six realms of existence. The problem is, that we have manufactured it. We begin to relax and no longer feel the need to maintain our exalted state. Eventualy a small sliver of doubt occurs. Have we really made it? At first we are able to smooth over the question, but eventually the doubt begins to occur more and more frequently and soon we begin to struggle to regain our supreme confidence. As soon as we begin to struggle, we fall back into the lower realms and begin the whole process over and over; from god realm to jealous god realm to animal realm to hungry ghost realm to hell realm. At some point we begin to wonder if there isn't some sort of alternative to our habitual way of dealing with the world. This is the human realm.

The human realm is the only one in which liberation from the six states of existence is possible. The human realm is characterized by doubt and inquistiveness and the longing for something better. We are not as absorbed by the all consuming preoccupations of the other states of being. We begin to wonder whether it is possible to relate to the world as simple, dignified human beings.

The Eightfold Path The path to liberation from these miserable states of being, as taught by the Buddha, has eight points and is known as the eightfold path. The first point is called right view -- the right way to view the world. Wrong view occurs when we impose our expectations onto things; expectations about how we hope things will be, or about how we are afraid things might be. Right view occurs when we see things simply, as they are. It is an open and accomodating attitude. We abandon hope and fear and take joy in a simple straight-forward approach to life.

The second point of the path is called right intention. It proceeds from right view. If we are able to abandon our expectations, our hopes and fears, we no longer need to be manipulative. We don't have to try to con situations into our preconceived notions of how they should be. We work with what is. Our intentions are pure.

The third aspect of the path is right speech. Once our intentions are pure, we no longer have to be embarresed about our speech. Since we aren't trying to manipulate people, we don't have to be hesitant about what we say, nor do we need to try bluff our way through a conversation with any sort of phony confidence. We say what needs to be said, very simply in a genuine way.

The fourth point on the path, right discipline, involves a kind of renunciation. We need to give up our tendency to complicate issues. We practice simplicity. We have a simple straight-forward relationship with our dinner, our job, our house and our family. We give up all the unnecessary and frivolous complications that we usually try to cloud our relationships with.

Right livelihood is the fifth step on the path. It is only natural and right that we should earn our living. Often, many of us don't particularly enjoy our jobs. We can't wait to get home from work and begrudge the amount of time that our job takes away from our enjoyment of the good life. Perhaps, we might wish we had a more glamorous job. We don't feel that our job in a factory or office is in keeping with the image we want to project. The truth is, that we should be glad of our job, whatever it is. We should form a simple relationship with it. We need to perform it properly, with attention to detail.

The sixth aspect of the path is right effort. Wrong effort is struggle. We often approach a spiritual discipline as though we need to conquer our evil side and promote our good side. We are locked in combat with ourselves and try to obliterate the tiniest negative tendency. Right effort doesn't involve struggle at all. When we see things as they are, we can work with them, gently and without any kind of aggression whatsoever.

Right mindfulness, the seventh step, involves precision and clarity. We are mindful of the tiniest details of our experience. We are mindful of the way we talk, the way we perform our jobs, our posture, our attitude toward our friends and family, every detail.

Right concentration, or absorption is the eighth point of the path. Usually we are absorbed in absentmindedness. Our minds are comletely captivated by all sorts of entertainment and speculations. Right absorption means that we are completely absorbed in nowness, in things as they are. This can only happen if we have some sort of discipline, such as sitting meditation. We might even say that without the discipline of sitting meditation, we can't walk the eightfold path at all. Sitting meditation cuts through our absentmindedness. It provides a space or gap in our preocuppation with ourselves.

The Goal Most people have heard of nirvana. It has become equated with a sort of eastern version of heaven. Actually, nirvana simply means cessation. It is the cessation of passion, aggression and ignorance; the cessation of the struggle to prove our existence to the world, to survive. We don't have to struggle to survive after all. We have already survived. We survive now; the struggle was just an extra complication that we added to our lives because we had lost our confidence in the way things are. We no longer need to manipulate things as they are into things as we would like them to be.

Mike Butler

-- Mike Butler (m.e.butler@aol.com), June 26, 2000.

and bhudda died!and bhudda will face the judgment like ALL men. nicey teachings,don,t save=soul,s. JESUS IS LORD!!!

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 26, 2000.

Al,where do you find the basis for belief in the "soul" where is it? what is it?Ego?IntelectCorporeal form?Personality?Just what does that word mean?I'd be more worried about losing my "happy thoughts" than my "soul" as I have reason to believe that "happy thoughts" actualy exist.Are you saying that I just have to take you on your word that the "soul" exists?That's hard to do as you're demonsratably insane.I'm not troll baiting you,Al,I'd really like to understand why you believe in the existance in a separate "self" or "soul".

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 26, 2000.

In other words al,I'm not asking you to defend your beliefs but rather to explain them.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 26, 2000.

.D/STOMPER, NOW YOUR JUDGING ME, i wasn,t answering nemisis post

I guess you are right al-d. I'm sorry -- was in a persnickity mood I quess. You are right.

I couldn't agree with you more as to the present day apostasy in the christian church. Wars, rumors of war, quakes, etc. There is no guarantee al-d. And, yeah I know the verse that says, " ppl will say things continue to go on as in the beginning", but to grasp that NOW is the time like a life raft, and shout from the rooftops spreading the doom msg, when you really don't know?

For instance, take ANY preachers msg 25 years ago -- 50 years ago --100 years ago--2000 years ago. They ALL said the same thing. You can say now is the time to repent (when isn't -- we're all a-holes) but to say now is the END, is hogwash.

End times msg is a bad motivator al-d. Everyone wants to save their skin, but when your msg of the end doesn't materialize? There yah go = present day church, because all they REALLY want is the gimmies and save my ass. Seeds on stoney soil al-d, and the msgrs made to be fools.

-- (doomerstomper@usa.net), June 26, 2000.

zoob, man is 3 part,s 1.spirit 2.soul 3. flesh/body you choose not to believe,so be it.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 26, 2000.

HI D/STOMP.,AS IN THE DAY,S OF NOAH,KINDA FIT,S TO-DAY/TIMES. jesus GAVE MAJOR CLUES.-THERES NEVER BEEN A TIME LIKE NOW!! HECK I AIN,T INTO DOOM/GLOOM THE GOSPEL IS GOOOD-NEWS. BUT THERE IS ALSO THE OTHER NEWS. IF MY POSTS BUG YOU THAT MUCH=IGNORE THEM! I OBEY THE SPIRIT NOT MAN,S OPINION,S. THERE ARE A FEW,WHO COME BY HERE.WHO SHARE WITH ME. THIS IS AN UN-CENSORED FORUM,NO???

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 26, 2000.

carry on with your crusade then al-d. You're on your own bud. You have the un-censored right to blather on! If someone nails you -- oh well.

-- (doomerstomper@usa.net), June 26, 2000.

DOOMY/S. don,t go away angry. your rite-on about mucho!! I likes yu bro.--i don,t mind if we disagree!that,s healthy. hey if i get nailed--so be it! all,s i.m tryin to say, is JESUS said'there would be a generation' like no other. yu know what i mean vern?

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 26, 2000.

Al, what do you mean by "spirit" and "soul" and how should I understand them to be differant?

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 26, 2000.

Well Ill be! Here all this time I thought the guys name was Bubba.

On a more serious note I am compelled to comment on this al-d person. Is this some sort of put-on or insider joke? Looks like he/she has a following of sorts but for the life of me I cant see why. Nobody would actually take religious guidance from this person, would they?

-- Ra (tion@l.1), June 26, 2000.

doomer,

ya gotta watch the nail talk around ol' al-, you know what effect it has on him.

al-,

doomer's your sister, dude.

Have you called gilda a witch before? As for the rebellion take, wouldn't it have been the other way around - the church was a rebellion against the {power structure} of the craft?

Maybe the cat thing got you goin', kinda like Ra.

-- flora (***@__._), June 27, 2000.

heheh -- thanks for reminding me flora -- the crucifixion complex. (why is it that typed words NEVER look right?)

duh! al-d-- it's really hard to carry on a debate with you, when you offer zero input to back up your claims. You do CLAIM to have a corner on the truth -- yet you fail to elaborate. Kinda like a tract that ppl hand out, because they really don't want to take a STAND, in case they get shot down.

Running to the word every time you need a comeback is losing readership I'm afraid. Not that I am against the word -- you know I am not, but elaboration would be cool. I KNOW because I KNOW has little impact dontcha think?

and flora is correct -- a 'sis' is the correct term - although where I fit in with the "bruthahood" is a bigger mystery :-)

heheh -- "doubting-doomerstomper" -- the questions never stop

-- (doomerstomper@usa.net), June 27, 2000.

all,s i.m tryin to say, is JESUS said'there would be a generation' like no other.

and this one is more evil because?

-- (doomerstomper@usa.net), June 27, 2000.

d/stomp. READ YOR BIBLE FOR ANSWER,S. especially what LORD had to say,when disciples asked about the-end.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 28, 2000.

-- (testing@1.2.3), August 22, 2000.

Enough Already

-- Oh Lord, won't (you@buymeamercedesdbenz.com), August 22, 2000.

-- (testing@1.2.3), August 22, 2000.

What does God want with a Mercedes Benz?

-- Captain James T. Kirk (cant@have.mine), August 22, 2000.

Al, you are on FIRE! He is talking through you Al. I can just feel it.

This is the best thread I have read in a very very long time.

p.s. Hawk, I am stunned and amazed. WOW

Ra, remember it was a prostitute who washed Jesus' feet, with her own hair, tears, and very expensive perfume, when his own friends hadn't even offered him a drink of water. And it was the thief dying next to Jesus on calvary who was told that he would see paradise that day, because of HIS FAITH. Don't you get it? God doesn't care how much money we have, or what charities we give to, or how many rotten things we have done in our lives. He cares what is IN OUR HEARTS.

-- cin (cin@=0).cin), August 22, 2000.

FAITH=PLEASES GOD!!-HE[GOD] knowing our weak-frame[psalm 103]brought us peace thru =JESUS-HE SAID =WHOEVER-BELIEVES in heart!! will live-forever---no perfoming religious-acts!! FAITH in -JESUS-equals=righteousness!!WALK IN gods-love & you'll find you can love others!PAUL=said->'when i'm weak=he[GOD] makes me strong!!--i can't save myself-so i give up!& accept his FREE-GIFT- THRU-FAITH!!-it's all of him-&-none of me!simple=TRUST!! HE DOES THE CHANGING!!i've been in hell enough-to-know i don't wanna stay-there!!-----lean on HIM--and--live free!!

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), August 23, 2000.