Be Still My Heart : LUSENET : ER Discussions : One Thread

"Be Still My Heart" is the episode on ER tonight.

-- Andrea (don'thaveone@this, June 22, 2000


Since you're mentioning this show, I just wanted to comment on how much Carter was his old self as he was talking to Abby on the roof. He was being his old encouraging, charming, funny but thoughtful self. The way he talked and laughed and flirted, I just wish he had encouraged Lucy too again, like he used to.

-- Elaine (, June 23, 2000.

Did anyone else yell at Carter to turn around when he went in the room? I also yelled at him to look futher down to where Lucy was. It didn't happen of course.

-- Cammie (, June 23, 2000.

I'm with you Elaine. It was so great to see how Carter was with the elderly woman and Abby. I realize he was preoccupied with that case but I still don't understand why he was so short with Lucy. I know animosity between them had built up but this just seemed so out of the blue. Anyway, I hope he can be the caring and wonderful doctor he once was again. It was neat to see the epi again and see things that I had missed. It did appear that Paul was "out" when they started to do the spinal tap which I didn't remember. I still didn't see Kerry in her mysterious appearance though!

-- amanda (, June 23, 2000.

Did I miss it or last night on the rebroadcast of Be Still My Heart did NBC edit out the part where Paul Sobricki got into an argument with his friend and Mark comes out to break it up?

-- Michelle (, June 23, 2000.

You missed it.

-- Cammie (, June 23, 2000.

I didn't think he was short on Lucy. The way the writers wrote it, Lucy kept coming up to him when he was on his way to Mrs. Connelly's room, supervising a very new ER student. I also think that Carter was kind of annoyed at the patient who kept getting out of his room, and then alternatively annoyed at lucy who couldn't keep him in his room. One thing that surprised me was that this time around, when I was prepared for what was to happen, I really can't find anyone to blame. Probably in the light of just watching Random Acts on TNT, it really was a senseless act of violence. Looking back, they did everything right, so to speak. They were waiting for a psych consult, they did the spinal tap, Lucy did mention him fitting the DSM IV portrait of pschitzofrenia (sp??) but what else could they have done but waited for a psych consult, and they talked to friends about Paul. I don't think anyone could have seen this coming-- the fact that Paul would kill Lucy, and in retrospect, I hope Carter doesn't beat himself up more over this.

-- samira (, June 23, 2000.

Not disagreeing, Samira, but Carter wasn't supposed to be supervising Abby...Malucci was. He WAS supposed to be supervising Lucy (and was reminded of that by Mark early on in the epi). I was amazed at how many little things I noticed this time but didn't Mark reminding Carter to supervise more closely and the knife being mentioned in passing as missing.

-- Diana (, June 23, 2000.

The last scene, is so chillingly brilliant, I can say for sure that I've never seen anything like it-ever. Carter's facial reactions were simply super-he goes from confused, to scared, to fearful and in agony, all in a few seconds. And that music playing in the background was the icing on the cake. Poor Carter and Lucy, NO ONE could hear them, that bothered me. And also, I kept begging CArter to walk out the door as he was passing out, at least ppl would have SEEN him! But then, they wouldnt have seen Lucy. And it was so creepy how Carter was his old self, as said previously, laughing and complimenting, and then five seconds later, he gets stabbed nearly to death. Poor baby. Poor babies, I should say. I think Carter needs a nice hug from me, no?

-- Emily (, June 23, 2000.

To Diana, I didn't know Malucci was supposed to be supervising Abby.. did someone tell him to? He was with Deb, hehe, for most of the time with that doctor/patient, wasn't he. Anyway, though, I guess Carter felt he had an obligation to be with Abby and Mrs. Connely because the patient had requested him, and he wanted to make sure that the patient's wishes were respected, otherwise I'm pretty sure Abby would have intubated her.

-- samira (, June 23, 2000.

Sure, Carter was working with Abby because Mrs. Connely wanted him there. And if Lucy really felt that frustrated, why couldn't she ask another resident for advice about Paul, since Carter was so busy? I suppose it would have been violating the chain of command somewhat, but it seems like Lucy was constantly saying things like, "Yes, I was about to do that. I was going to come and get you. I was getting ready to check on that." She annoyed the hell out of me, to be truthful...

-- Cecelia (, June 23, 2000.

Excuse me Cecelia, but you're not actually blamimg Lucy for Paul attacking her and Carter are you? That would be very cold since she's now dead.

-- Andrea (don'thave, June 23, 2000.

No, Andrea, I am not. I'm simply saying I don't like Lucy, never did, and I don't think she did a good job, particularly on Paul. If she felt he was dangerous, or even if she didn't, but wanted advice, she should have gone to someone other than Carter if Carter wasn't available. She believed Paul had schizophrenia. The psych consult was delayed. She should have gotten Mark involved, or Luka, or gone up to psych herself and dragged someone down. That's all I'm saying.

-- Cecelia (, June 24, 2000.

Back to you, Samira. Though it wasn't clear until later, Malucci was Abby's superviser. And you're right...he was hanging all over Deb so couldn't have been watching her, which all came to a head later in the season. BTW, none of this is said to put blame on anyone. Someone above said something about Carter being busy supervising Abby so I responded. Mrs. Connelly asked for him and he helped with her. I don't know what the proper procedure should have been, but (like I said above) Mark noticed he wasn't watching Lucy closely enough and commented on that early in the epi.

-- Diana (, June 24, 2000.

I want to say something in defense of Andrea. Cecelia, I think she got the idea that you might have been blaming Lucy for the attack of her and Carter because it did sound like you blamed her. It's good that you didn't blame her. Lucy is gone forever and won't ever be able to learn from this. As for you not liking Lucy, we're all entitled to our opinions but some may disagree with that. Sorry if I sounded mean, I wasn't trying to be mean. Diana, I agree with you. Dave should have been paying more attention to Abby than trying to outdo Deb.

-- Cammie (, June 24, 2000.

No prob, Cammie and Andrea. I know I'm in the minority on my opinion of Lucy. I'd be interested in any response though--doesn't anyone else think that Lucy shouldn't have been so dependant on Carter? Shouldn't she have gone to Mark or someone else for help with Paul?

-- Cecelia (, June 24, 2000.

I do agree with you this epi Lucy should have gone to Mark if Carter was not there for her. I still think that he was being mean to her and ignoring his med student. Mark reminded him a couple of times. I know he felt responsible for Mrs. Connelley, but Lucy needed him. I think Lucy should have gone to Mark about the psych consult...maybe he could have gotten them down there more quickly. After all, Lucy was only a med student. At any rate, I don't think you can blame any one person. As in all tragedies there is a chain of events that took place. If one of the links would have been broken (by any person) then things could have been different. There are so many "what ifs"...if psyche got there quicker, if Carter had seen how delusional Paul was, if Abby wouldn't have been so defiant about Mrs. Connelley, if the nurses would have been more careful with the could go on and on....

-- amanda (, June 24, 2000.

I also agree with Cecelia. Lucy was nearing the end of her fourth year as a med student, and was about to become a resident. I've thought for a long time that she was way too dependent on others for guidance, particularly since she had been around the ER for so long. Looking back on old episodes from TNT, I think Carter was more independent, more skilled and more knowledgeable. As a med student, he usually figured out what needed to be done first, then approached the residents to confirm that his plan was correct (and it almost always was). Lucy was something of a hand-wringer, and less proactive in arranging for the treatment her patients needed - although her "Domino Heart" patient was an exception. Maybe the outcome from Domino Heart made her a little gun shy of advocating as strongly for her patients. Don't get me wrong, though - I don't think either Lucy or Carter was to blame for Sobricki's attack - it just wasn't forseeable. (Just because a patient is schizophrenic doesn't mean he will violently attack).

I also have to comment on Noah Wyle's incredible acting in BSMH - his reaction to the attack was incredibly well done - I rewatched it several times, looking for flaws in his performance, and couldn't find any. I was less convinced by Kellie Martin - for instance, watching her face as she lost consciousness, she was far less convincing than Carter. I wonder if that is why she wasn't "featured" as much, even though it was her next-to-last-episode. Did Laura Innes as director simply find her performance unconvincing, and so limited it to fleeting shots?

-- Beth (, June 25, 2000.

Beth, she looked pretty convicing to me. I mean what other way is there to go unconsciousness? I don't know why she wasn't shown alot more. Maybe because it was scary to see her like that and with the blood all over her made it really gross to watch. So maybe Laura didn't want to gross everyone out to much. That's JMO though.

-- Cammie (, June 25, 2000.

Well, for instance, as Carter loses consciousness, he seems to be fighting to stay awake, but then his eyes roll back and his eyelids flutter - Lucy just goes from wide-eyed to suddenly clamping her eyes shut. Its as though she said "Oh - there's my cue" and then just shuts her eyes. I can't explain it, really - it was just that with the Lucy character I "noticed" the acting, whereas Noah Wyle was absolutely convincing.

Not all of it was Kellie Martin's acting, because I also thought the way she was "placed" for the scene - lying there with her hair sort of "neatly" (for lack of a better word) swept back in one direction - the scene just didn't look right.

Anyway, I just thought that the fact that Laura Innes pulled the camera in for several tight close-ups on Noah Wyle's face, whereas she had Kellie Martin's scenes shot from 5 or 6 feet away, suggested that Innes (and possibly the writers) - had more confidence in Wyle's ability to pull it off convincingly.

-- Beth (, June 25, 2000.

I think that the scene was done not depending on each of their own acting abilities, but for the dramatic effect. The fact that Lucy was also stabbed dawned on us as it became clear to Carter...we saw the realization through his eyes, because it WAS a few feet away, and that made it even more spooky. We wondered for a second why his eyes were widening, and then there she is, and it's just shocking, as it slowly dawns on you. I don't think it could have been done any better. It was one of the most haunting and excellently shot scenes. I've talked to a lot of people who were freaked out at Lucy's face from across the gurney from Carter, it honestly scared me! I guess you just have to keep in mind that Carter had JUST been stabbed, and was struggling to see if he could get up, while Lucy had been facing this for, we still do'nt know how long, and she just kind of closed her eyes in worn out defeat. Though it does bother me that both of them pass out at the exact same time. How come he passed out right away and she didn't pass out 'til she saw Carter?

-- Elaine (, June 26, 2000.

I think that Lucy may have been fading in and out while she was lying there, and then seeing Carter (the person she thought would be able to get her some medical help) stabbed and then him passing out, she may have just given up hope and slipped away into unconciousness.

-- Lolina (, June 26, 2000.

Okay, I guess I'm in the minority on that one - I don't know why I didn't like Lucy's shots as much, aside from what I've already said. *shrug*

As far as Carter passing out faster than Lucy, I think it might be because he had the renal artery laceration. I seem to recall that a great deal of your blood volume passes through your kidneys every minute, which means a laceration to the renal artery would cause a very rapid, severe blood loss. If memory serves me, (and heaven knows it might not anymore!), the human body holds somewhere between 12 and 14 pints of blood. Carter was on his fifth unit by the time he reached the OR, which suggests that he bled down pretty quickly. I don't remember how many units Lucy got. Her injuries were certainly very severe -- 4 stab wounds to Carter's 2, and two of her wounds were to organs that bleed pretty heavily (liver and spleen), but maybe the blood loss from those areas is not as rapid as in an major arterial bleed.

-- Beth (, June 26, 2000.

Beth, I think your memory is serving you well! I was just studying for the Bio SAT II's, and if I remember from my text book, any injuries of the arteries can be quickly fatal. For example, if someone wanted to commit suicide, They could slash their arteries near the wrist and be dead in just a few minutes. Any interruption to the proper flow of the arteries causes quick to instantaneous death... and it obviously goes to show that the knife went pretty deep into the body since arteries are located well beneath skin surface. (And this is probably much more than any of you needed to know... it's just helping me review:), lol)

-- samira (, June 26, 2000.

Back to the question of Lucy's being too first thought when I read it was she was REQUIRED to get Carter's opinion/permission still at that point in her medical career...that's not dependence, that's following the rules. If I was a patient in a teaching hospital, I'd want that to be the case. Though Paul Sobricki seemed to have problems that became more apparent and serious by the minute, at no point were they life threatening (to him) so there didn't appear to be an urgency...otherwise she'd have definitely gotten Carter or Mark's attention. Look at how she went to Romano's HOME! IMO, she chose her battles, and unfortunately the last one went sadly wrong.

-- Diana (, June 27, 2000.

I agree, Diana - as a med student, I think Lucy was required to confirm her treatment plans with the residents or attendings. My point was that when Carter was a fourth year med student, he took the initiative more - instead of asking the resident what to do, Carter would tell them what he thought should be done. Lucy did this somewhat, but she also presented many cases by asking what she should do, rather than stating what she thought. She was actually pretty independent with Sobricki, and I think Carter was trying to push her to be more forceful for her patient. That is, he may have been trying to get her to take the initiative in arguing with psych to get downstairs for the consult. Remember in season one how Susan was criticized for not presenting her cases forcefully enough and having attendings overrule her? That's how I think of Lucy. I don't think anyone ever thought of Carter that way, except perhaps Carter himself.

-- Beth (, July 01, 2000.

By the way, as far as Carter passing out faster thatn Lucy - i watched the episode again, and heard for the first time that Lucy's aorta was torn. I think a torn aorta trumps even a renal artery laceration for the rapidity with which you bleed out, so I'm at a loss again as to why Lucy was still conscious. Anatomically, I suppose it's possible that her tear was smaller and bled more slowly, but combining that with the spleen and liver injuries, it doesn't make much sense. Maybe she was stabbed just before Carter walked in, and hadn't been lying there long.

It was probably just done for the dramatic effect of Carter's and Lucy's eyes meeting - I have to admit, Lucy did a good job of looking terrified.

-- Beth (, July 01, 2000.

I just saw BSMH and I could have sworn Lucy lost conscience first followed by Carter. Because after he loses conscienouss the screen faded to black. So are you sure that Carter went unconscience first?

-- Cammie (, July 01, 2000.

Lucy did lose consciousness first, but she was "down" for a longer period of time. I think the question is, why did Carter pass out so quickly, whereas Lucy lay there for heaven-knows-how-long without passing out until after Carter was attacked.

-- Beth (, July 01, 2000.

Beth, I just read your idea about Lucy not being there for that long in BSMH, and I agree. Paul was still in the room, perhaps preparing to leave, when Carter walks in. He left almost immediately after stabbing Carter, why not Lucy?...not enough time between them. That is why she hadn't passed out yet.

-- Kristi (, September 22, 2001.

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