And why do you think so? Thanks.

-- WD-40 (wd40@squeak.not), June 21, 2000

Answers

Gary North.

Once cpr gets someone (except LL) to grant him the adulation and reverence I think he seeks his silly scorn heaping will cease.

Difference is GN will always be nutty.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), June 21, 2000.

CPR

He is a basketcase, Gary is just a poor bugger who is stuck in his religious delusions like all the other so called christians are stuck more or less.

CPR is a person who has demonstrated in the past that he has brains but the Y2k debate pushed him into insanety.

-- Justin Me (justme@me.not), June 21, 2000.

ATTN: LUBE-JOB

CPR-LINK

http://www.russkelly.com/experts.html

The Gary Duct Tape North :

LINK

http://www.serve.com/thibodep/cr/y2k.htm

Gary North
&
Y2K

---

In his November and December newsletters, Gary North has quite explicitly abandoned y2k as Gods judgment, and returned to his plans for developing an online publishing house for Christian Reconstruction in the year 2000. The transition will not be as easy for many on his roller coaster ride from cataclysmic judgment to everything-as-usual. Many lives have been dislocated or ruined, partly from their own folly, partly from the machinations of an accomplished scoundrel. Each had their own motive for being misled, from Art Bell and his listeners to Ed Yourdon, from Internet neophytes to the fringe extreme. Many saw aspects of themselves they never knew existed, the barbarous subterranean just beneath the surface of civilized life erupting through groveling insecurity and fear, played as by a consummate artist. Others proudly discovered a new ethic of Christian survivalism. Either way Gary has moved on, ushering to the metronome of his boorish catechization a new remnant of devotees into Gary Christendom, the knave in the image of God, the abyss of raging impotence.

Paul Thibodeau, 12/10/99

---

"So, of course I want to see y2k bring down the system, all over the world.
I have hoped for this all of my adult life." -- Gary North

---

The Plague Has Come At Last
"God has a sense of humor."
AIDS article, 1987

Economic Forecast for the Eighties
"I am increasingly of the opinion that nuclear war is imminent..."
Biblical Economics Today, 1980

Impending Judgment
"What is an extremist? A prophet."
Christian Reconstruction, 1980

Out of the Rubble...
"They have no solution. There is no solution."
Honest Money, 1986

Prophets, Leaders, Followers, Losers
"Rarely does anyone believe a prophet. "
Biblical Economics Today, 1993

The Rusting of the Iron Curtain: How Real?
"God has raised up Gorbachev to execute this final phase of the Soviet strategy against the West..."
Christian Reconstruction, 1990

What Are the Facts?
"[The Soviets] now have a new anti-missile defense system in actual production which can hit
any of our missiles or planes as they approach Soviet targets with half a dozen or more missiles."
TentMakers, 1985

Guns
"You need to know how to draw, unlatch the safety, aim,
and put two bullets in a man-sized target at 20 feet in a second and a half, total."
Successful Investing in An Age of Envy, 1981

Y2K Judgment
"We need times so hard that men will turn to God..."
ICE Newsletter, January 1998

---

Gary North's Y2K Site:
http://www.remnant.org/ or http://www.garynorth.com
"This is why we need a remnant. We need a school of the prophets."
Christian Reconstruction, 1982 January/February, p. 2.

---

With only a
few days
left until the complete destruction of civilization and billions dead,
you'll need a
two year
subscription to
Remnant Review
to prepare for Gary's next scary.
Make sense?
Then order your two year subscription today and save!

And don't worry, Gary's record is 100%. EVERY y2k prediction has failed in vintage Gary fashion.

"Only in Remnant Review will you receive the information you need to make decisions in the middle of the worst peacetime crisis this world has seen in this century. You need one source that will keep you informed. The conventional news services dont dare report the full story. Bad news upsets advertisers. The media will not cover this topic until it has toafter the collapse has begun.

Dont wait until "Bank Runs Spread" appears on the front page of your local newspaper to make up your mind. In short, dont imitate the U.S. government. Procrastination will cost you far more than you can imagine. Get out your credit card (before you are issued a 00 expiration year card that gets rejected because its expired), pick up the phone, and call 1-888-863-9359. "

---

"I used to speak with reporters on y2k. I no longer bother. They are simply paid functionaries of the advertising industry, getting rich off y2k denial. (Well, not getting rich. Just making an all-too-easy living.)

Anyway, a lot of them asked me this: "But what if everyone believed in y2k? Wouldn't this create chaos?" And the answer is, of course, yes -- as surely as if they all believed that nuclear missiles had been launched five minutes ago, in a nation without civil defense. (Reporters don't like civil defense programs, either.) When a system-wide catastrophe is coming in a short period of time, and 99% of the victims have not prepared, it does no good for everyone to find out about it, except to say a few brief prayers. There are insufficient resources to make preparations. The catastrophe will hit."

-- Gary North, April 28, 1999.

---

Time Bomb 2000 written by Ed and Jennifer Yourdon, is a book about surviving the potential collapse of various infrastructures of civilization from the y2k computer bug, and is based largely on the doomsday analysis of Gary North (according to North 90%). Mr. Yourdon removed the prominent link he had on the title page to Gary North's Y2K Links and Forums when the controversy surrounding North's extreme views erupted. Essentially, the book reduces the absolutism of North to unrealistic and unwarranted 10-15% probabilities (which quickly accumulate to 99.9%) and 1-10 year apocalyptic scenarios. The book has already proven to be embarassing, both socially irresponsible and technically inaccurate (for example, see the Preface, and a utility expert's response). We should be concerned about the y2k bug. We should also be concerned about the deforming bedrock of North's apocalypticism and sensationalistic motivations on the factuality of this book.

Like a character straight out of a comic book, Dr. North knavishly plots and schemes his latest ruse for bringing about 'Christian Reconstruction'. His prognosis of y2k is unmistakably blunt: get out of the cities now or die. Y2K will, absolutely and inevitably, completely destroy the civilized world. The picture is nothing short of a nuclear holocaust. Of course it is precisely just such a widespread belief, coupled with the every-man-for-himself survivalist reaction that Dr. North advocates, that would cause a y2k worldwide calamity in the first place. Remove either hysterical fear, or a self- preservationist ethic, and the facts simply can't support his y2k claims. Much of the public is unaware that North is and always has been a survivalist. Gary North moved to his last residence in Tyler Texas because he thought it was a good location for surviving a nuclear war. He has made false pronouncements of the end of the world in the past, and has prophesied the destruction of civilization all his adult life. Dr. North is the co-founder a movement called Christian Reconstruction. Its goal is to restore God's rule by taking Christian dominion and reinstituting 'God's law' in every area of life. Reconstructionism has gained wide notoriety for its extreme bigotry, misleading and abusive rhetoric, and questionable ethics. It has had a radical influence on the American religious right, infiltrating movements as diverse as the new militia and the Christian Coalition.

Should we be running for the hills? A few Reconstructionists have spoken out against Dr. North's apocalypticism. (also see Okay, Okay, Y2K by Doug Wilson). Reverend Abshire writes:

"Look, we live in a fragile technological society that COULD suffer any number

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), June 21, 2000.

Nobody can kill a thread quite like the CEEP.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), June 21, 2000.

Its trivial with "contributors" like you, Carlos.

CPR

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), June 21, 2000.

Of course it's trivial. Pretend it's Dr. Science and enjoy.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), June 21, 2000.

I think Mike Adams was nuttier than both of them.

-- The Ghost of Koskinen (beza@wa.freei.net), June 21, 2000.

Adams was crazy?

He took $400,000 from Doomlits in six months and then used that as an example of how to do E-Business. He opened another web site to sell that as a profit center and who knows what is going down now.

He had the usual that a small ISP had and one employee.

You tell me how much he banked (or stored in gold coins) from the Idiots who listened to his re-hash of Gary and Farah, Caton and Hyatt, Lord and McElvaney.

-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), June 21, 2000.

Cpr is like a male version of LL, but even more obnoxious. At least with her I could imagine that her pretty white butt might make it worth tolerating the rest of her annoyances. Cpr has absolutely NOTHING going for him, especially not gas prices. :-)

-- Hawk (flyin@hi.again), June 21, 2000.

Charlie:

If you don't start getting this right, I'll be forced to drive 30 minutes and choke it into you: It's McAlvaney!!!!!

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), June 21, 2000.

Score tied 1 to 1. Anybody remember the question?

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), June 22, 2000.

They were both quite nutty. The difference between the two is that Gary North linked to a lot of documents in an effort to support his claims of a coming Y2k disaster.

CPR on the other hand spent most of his time talking about Gary North and the old TB2000 forum. That wasn't much help to those of us who were looking for the most reliable info about Y2k we could find. And by reliable info, I mean more than just the press releases and self- reported information from organizations that we saw a lot of last year.

-- (cpr@vs.GaryNorth), June 22, 2000.

They were both quite nutty. The difference between the two is that Gary North linked to a lot of documents in an effort to support his claims of a coming Y2k disaster. CPR on the other hand spent most of his time talking about Gary North and the old TB2000 forum. That wasn't much help to those of us who were looking for the most reliable info about Y2k we could find. And by reliable info, I mean more than just the press releases and self- reported information from organizations that we saw a lot of last year.

-- (cpr@vs.GaryNorth), June 22, 2000.

Now that is funny!!!!!

Course you be writing daily today asking if your Utility plans on keeping your lights on, correct? With all that possible upsetting deregulation taking hold..You call your bank daily and ask if that new change-over to that there Java databasethingee you heard from your neighbor next door is working out a-ok. correct? Assuming you feel safe now that he(neighbor) is not out to steal your "preps".

Look,,,I know you mean well, now and back then, but please WAKE UP!!!

Face-it, you were taken for a ride. Yes, you, person of good-will were played like the dupe they know you are. Even have you believing a government who is unable to run a 2 question Census optimally, has some master plan to end your freedom. While the whole time the only threat is from you being in a position to be hoodwinked by the likes of a Gary North, or a polished-up better Peter de Jager. You are not alone, you are average. Your mission is to be FREE, to be all you can be. To rise above, break the chains of societal programming.

now run-off and get busy will-ya...

-- CHeston (nrais@scam.con), June 22, 2000.

How about these snippets from someone who actually KNEW what in the hell he was talking about. Course you will have to ditch being a sponge of the Talkingheads and grow a brain to be able to find the truth when it smacks you upside your coconut, but one can hope.

Garree knows most of ya have no functioning brain. He knows you addicted to the sources(CNN-ABC-NBC-Rosie), so he fed ya what you are familiar with. Bet ya still look to them even after they said Y2k was this monumental threat and all. Some still even look to Garree or Ed or even Michael Hyatt, Hyatt? yep even that slimeball. I guess some of ya like it up the gazoo regularly, sad.

A subnote: one of the difficulties of testing software for errors is that, unlike physical objects, software's prone to failing on point discontinuities. What I mean is that when you test an object for a physical quality, like say testing a girder for tensile strength, it's safe to say that if your girder survives a 10 pound load, it'll survive a five pound load. This isn't necessarily true with software, what may work when you input "10" doesn't necessarily work when you input "5". For example, I wrote a particular piece of software which fails on Sundays. This doesn't worry me much because it only gets used on Tuesdays or Wednesdays. Testing can become incredibly messy, especially when people are involved. My personal favorite example of this involved a configuration screen for the Apple II, the purpose of the screen was to identify whether the user had a color monitor or not, and eventually boiled down to a "type x if it's color, type y if it's not" kind of statement. It took the engineers about 20 iterations to develop a combination of screen display, question and answer that worked for a significant majority of the users.

http://stand77.c om/wwwboard/messages/1075.html Subthought: there are actual situations where a Year 2000 failure is a price you pay for usability. I also know of software which will have problems on 1/1/00, but work fine the next day. I could cover that in more depth, but this message is pretty huge as it is.

Second off, rectifying an error before it causes problems is a rarity in the industry. As I mentioned above, testing generally has its limits because you can't expect to cover every possible combination of inputs. System repair is generally reactive because we can't fix bugs until we know they exist; how do we find out they exist? Somebody triggers the bug. This is why patches are a fact of life. Microsoft, for example, has had to release patches to prevent people from remotely crashing NT boxes with two-line scripts.

Third one for you to think about, and I think this is probably the doozy. In general, referring to "the Y2K bug" inaccurately describes the problem, there are a huge number of bugs under that classification, with qualities ranging from the trivial to the lethal. You may, for example, recall that several years ago, a flaw was found in the floating point processor for the Pentium. Since Intel has generally prided themselves on their floating point processors, which for Intel was quite an embarrasment. It's a beautiful example of a common mode flaw (at the time, literally millions of processors were out in the world with the flaw, and I had a friend who was designing embedded systems which used them extensively). However, it was a flaw with fairly minimal impact. Primarily because the kinds of applications that actually used the floating point processor were fairly minimal.

http://stand77.co m/wwwboard/messages/967.html Which brings up a subpoint: most of what I've seen dispensed as preparedness information isn't particularly useful. Most of it is a rehash of the kind of survivalist information you've been able to find in the Loompanics catalog for years. Most of it comes with a definite ideological bent (to wit: America Must Once Again Become An Agrarian Republic), and sees the world through those ideological blinders. Basically, I see people hoping for just enough apocalypse, where just enough is defined as enough to make sure that they (and those they like) come out on top, while those they dislike get royally screwed. There are very few pessimists (Joe Boivin is the only authentic one I know of), just optimists with narrowly defined parameters for optimism. Jim Lord wants to see Y2K bring about a devolution of government, Paul Milne the same thing, Gary North wants to initiate the Millenium, and similar leanings effect Dennis Elenburg. On the left wing, Eric Utne has been big on social transformation for years.

-- CHeston (nrais@scam.con), June 22, 2000.

What a stupid question.

I don't think CPR is a nut at all.

Gary North, on the other hand, gives me the creeps.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), June 22, 2000.

wd,

I believe the more intresting comparison/contrast question regarding Mr. North and Mr. Reuben is, "Who was correct?"

History has always been written by the victors, to the scorn of the disillusioned and defeated losers. In this instance, the losers are the pathetic and memetic doomers; the victors, the pollies, and the rest of society.

Does anyone really care what the losers think? Not really.

You continue to whine and complain that "it wasn't fair" in this way or that - and it is all reminiscient of the sandbox mentality - a paradigm which, by the way, likely landed you on this most incorrect and illogical side of the debate in the first place.

To quote Bill Gates, "Life isn't fair."

To quote a friend from the south-eastern US, "You got handed your ass, son - shut your mouth and pick up the pieces."

Mr. Yourdom, Mr. Helter, and their defenders likely wish they could turn back time and not be the vocal propononents of fear, uncertainty, and dread that they were - but they cannot. And it galls them that anyone would dare remember this most embarrassing fact, but alas, some do (and more will be made aware as they drift over these pages and read Quotably Quoted material).

As several of the very correct pollies (Mr. Poole, in an open letter to Mr. Yourdom) noted last year - then was the time to correct their memetic doomer illogic, not after the fact. One or two individuals moderated their doomish predictions - drawing the scorn of the Helters and the Yourdoms and their little galssy-eyed band of meme-ey men, but most did not.

The saddest of all is the pathetic specimens who remain - claiming that "It really did happen! Y2k was really, really bad; just no one's telling you how bad! You pollies and society were just lucky!"; or other such drivel. My favourites are the properly ashamed doomers, who acknowledge their wrongness day in and day out by cowering behind new aliases - taking little sniping potshots at the historically-proven correct, their intellectual superiors: the pollies (such as Mr. Reuben). These doomers can now be considered intellectual and social pissants. May they find a new meme soon, because they need some new reason for existence, and a chance at regaining a smidgen of credibility.

Mr. Reuben was right, there was never a reason to prepare, and all those who stated there was a reason to prepare have been proven wrong by history. It's a good day!

Vindicated Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), June 22, 2000.

CPR and North cancel each other out.

-- Hiway (Hiway441@aol.com), June 22, 2000.

Granted, CPR is quite the character. Nutty?? Nah.....

But NORTH???? He's one nutty SOB! But you really half to pity the half-wits that think he knows what he's talking about......YIKES!!

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), June 22, 2000.

What? No one-liner about "memes"? I think a THIRD person should be added to the "who was nuttier" question.

-- (Andy Boy@Is.Losing.It.Fast), June 22, 2000.

WD-40 ....who was nuttier? You didn't present the correct choice - dimwits like yourself who ATE the garbage north served up and then have the gaul to make troll posts such as this! Why do I think so? Because I saw you go apeshit over y2k, then watched y2k go by with hardly a blink. And then I read your post. ;)

Next troll post please....

"Live long and get a brain"

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), June 22, 2000.

And by reliable info, I mean more than just the press releases and self- reported information from organizations that we saw a lot of last year.

Your using one of the standard doomer lines here, "cpr.vs. north", still unable to see why you were so wrong about y2k. The "self- reported" information you trashed and STILL trash (roflmao), was - WAKE UP FOR THIS - Right about y2k. The "self-reported" y2k information was right because it came from the industry itself, since this info was....- get ready for this - DIRECTLY FROM THE SOURCE. You prefered rumors and North ;)

"Clues- still available post y2k - get one now!"

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), June 22, 2000.

LMAO........ that this Q should be even asked !!!!!!!....... LOL... I still have hope for this forum :-)

-- Netghost (ng@no.yr), June 22, 2000.

I think this is a trick question.

Neither is nutty. CPR was/is passionate in his resistance to very dangerous and menacing people like North. North has an agenda and would do anything to achieve HIS goals. Anyone with that kind of grim determination to remake the world into his image might be a sociopath but is not the everyday, run-of-the-mill nut.

These two would be in direct contrast to Netty who is cannon fodder for ambitious schemers such as North. Now if I voted for nuttiest I would go with Netty who acted like a kid with a temper tantrum when he spammed Debunkers and who seems overly concerned, nay fixiated on the personal lives of others.

-- Friendly Ghost (nettyisn'tc@sper.com), June 23, 2000.

The person who was fixated on the personal lives of others was cpr. No one else even comes close.

http://stand77.com/wwwboard/messages/1373.html

I have most of the standard lines of ALL of them. Filed by name. 100 plus. From the Big names to the odd balls. From the Peasants to the Ph.Ds.

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000q7k

I'm fairly well known in the media but not to the public as the source of information on the "extremists" of Y2k. I have files on over 100 of them and willingly provide "deep background" to any legitimate writer or reporter for FREE. I can afford it.

It goes without saying that every file is available to the local and state Police and the Federal authorities who are now monitoring the Y2k Extremists in an effort to prevent any terrorism whether from domestic or foreign sources.

CPR reminds me somewhat of that senator from Wisconsin in the early 1950s.

-- (*@**.*), June 23, 2000.

Gary North

hands down.

-- you had to ask???? (thatW@s.stupid.of.you), June 24, 2000.