OTFR,

After consulting with my US attourney on the matter of possibly sharing information of a personal nature without my consent, I request the following:

- a list of any and all persons with whom you communicated my IP or any other information about me gained via my participation in this forum without my express written permission; and

- a complete listing of said information.

I also expressly forbid the collection or exchange of any such information in the future, and encourage all other particpants in this forum (of "non-preferred" class, or those who suffer(ed) the brunt of the preferrential treatment exhibitted both here and at the Hysterium) to do the same.

Vindicated Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), June 19, 2000

Answers

Since when can't Andy Ray spell properly?

Bad try, Troller.

-- ScamJob (troll@hoaxersRwe.edu), June 19, 2000.

To whoever wrote this:

What the F***. Are you doing your best to ruin a good thing? You better get a subpoena, brother.

Oh, and by the way, Any serious attorney would have made this request in private.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), June 19, 2000.

He's just playing at being his own lawyer here. My guess is that Andy Ray would never spring for the money to pay a real lawyer to represent him and do it properly, because the appearance of outrage and wounded innocence is his only real concern.

His true estimate of the damage that has been done to him can be judged by the time, effort and money he's willing to expend to redress it. So far, no serious effort means no serious damage.

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), June 19, 2000.

Then again, he could be a SHILL!

{I've wanted to do that ever since he christened himself Andy-Ray}

-- flora (***@__._), June 19, 2000.

This is TOO DAMN FUNNY:

The asshole's spelling of Attorney. go figure.

As for the 'list', simply delete four fingers, use the middle one and poof, there AR is a list for you. *snicker*

Who gives a damn about ISP's or exchange of information anyhow?

Consider this: Are you engaged in internet gab while you should be working w/out bosses permission? If so, yes, worry.

Are you using someone else's name, So what? You cant get caught, can u?

Use Diane as a prime example, she went thru much worse and she didnt raise this much hell. The REAL AR has been rubbing shit in our faces DAILY after many apologies, he still keeps right on plugging away.

IF you are looking for pity, look somewhere else butthead. When I went thru hell, I got hell for posting about it also. So ha!!!!!

YOU R NOT BEING TREATED ANY DIFFERENT deal with it.....

I hope the whole friggin internet emails your silly rearend, and may it be with the same crap you have dealt out here. You pathetic lil whinebag, you puke me.

(glances around with BIG cheesy grin, man that felt GOOD)

Hellish regards,

------sumer

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), June 19, 2000.

'sumer, you've got a mean streak in you. I like that in a person.

And, not really to defend AndyRay, it could be that the spelling "attourney" is defined to those who speak The King's English (although I think I would have used the term "barrister" -- but that's probably spelled incorrectly, too).

-- I'm Here, I'm There (I'm Everywhere@so.beware), June 19, 2000.

You may laugh at his spelling, but you might want to check out the recent US laws on collecting and sharing information, including, by the way, IP logging information. Privacy violations are not a joking matter these days.

Something tells me he'll be laughing last...

-- He Who (Last@Laughs.Best!), June 19, 2000.

BS. An IP address is not legally different from an email address. If Andy Ray sends me an unsolicited email (or posts on a public forum), there are no confidentiality restrictions on me passing his email address (or IP address) to someone else.

However, maliciously and intentionally spamming an IP or email address, which Andy Ray was involved in doing last year, is illegal.

-- Do what thou wilt (be@the.whole of the law), June 19, 2000.

Andy Ray is a Limey with a US attourney and an aluminium arse hole.

-- (nemesis@awol.com), June 19, 2000.

And, of course, why can't a US Citizen share "personal information" however he or she wants to. Back in the old days, we called it gossip.

Now, I'm just a little old US Attorney. But, only certain government and commercial entities have any limits at all on sharing information. Sort of one of those free speach, First Amendment deals, don't you know.

-- E.H. Porter (Just Wondering@About.it), June 19, 2000.

You can't even spell "speech", turkey.

There are laws regarding privacy, particularly concerning personal information collected over the Internet, and especially concerning how/if it is used/shared. The most stringent concerns information collected from 13 yr. or younger. You don't believe me? Then go ahead and try your luck.

-- He Who (Last@Laughs.Best!), June 19, 2000.

Damn! That's right. We forgot Andy Ray was a 12 year old. Uh oh.

-- We's in big trouble (@ .), June 19, 2000.

Where are the actual damages here? Without verifiable/actual damages THERE IS NO TORT.

Andy, tell your attorney to take a few refresher courses.

Sal Monella, care to chime in?

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), June 19, 2000.

I find it hard to believe someone like Andy Ray is not smart enough to already be using Anonymizer or a similar service.

-- (one@more.opinion), June 20, 2000.

No tort?

BFD.

Tort is not an element of criminal law, you idiot.

-- He Who (Last@Laughs.Best!), June 20, 2000.

Before spending money on an attorney, Andy Ray might want to check and see if there's actually anything to these rumors about OTFR and IP info.

-- Make (that@buffalo.squeal), June 20, 2000.

Andy, Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't this a public forum? I'd say that if you are concerned about privacy, don't participate here. No one is forcing you to do so. What alleged crimes are being committed? Since you aren't paying anything for the use of this service how do you expect to have "privileges" here?

-- Question Man (Qman@questioning.your.sanity), June 20, 2000.

Properly-Ashamed Doomer,

I am not an attourney, nor am I familiar with the finer points of law. This is the reason I employ attourneys. I am uncertain as to the legalities of this personally, and have elected to have an attourney in the US examine the evidence.

When this matter came to my attention, my initial question was echoed in a message addressed to OTFR, and it was simply "Did you email IPs to anyone?". I have not seen this question answered, but I have seen lots of justification and excuses and diversionary tactics by the usual doomers cowering behind fake email addresses and aliases, and the occassional brave soul with enough courage of their conviction to actually sign with a working email address (for a change of pace...).

I deduce, therefore, that the doomers on this forum - who have stated that they are really and truly sorry that they did not speak up when we pollies (now historically-proven and documented correct) were denied common human decency on a similar public forum last year - are demonstrably pathetic liars who have actually not changed at all. And further, they wish to see those who do not accept the meme (even in it's current dead status), still subject to selective and injurious treatment by those in a position to abuse their authority. And this is nothing short of support of fascism - pure and simple.

So, if you wish to be believed the next time you claim you knew it was wrong, but didn't want to say anything, now's the time. Otherwise, cower there beneath your fake aliases with your meme exposed, and await the next huckster who comes down the pike with a "get even" and "get it" scheme for you to latch upon. Only one suggestion, though (if I may) make certain the perpetrators of this next lie demonstrate a working knowledge of the systems of which they speak..in other words, avoid the Yourdons, Hellers, Norths, etc. of the next meme...

One word to the idiotic doomers who have attempted (in vain) to pry for the nature of the evidence I possess: Why would I share what I know (and how) here? Do you suppose everyone is as stupid as you? Haven't I demonstrated better logic skills than you - if with nothing else, the Y2k debacle you so loved and for which you hoped? Please - stop insulting yourselves further. I am embarrassed for you.

Vindicated Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman@hotmail.com), June 21, 2000.

And further, they wish to see those who do not accept the meme (even in it's current dead status), still subject to selective and injurious treatment by those in a position to abuse their authority. And this is nothing short of support of fascism - pure and simple.

At this point, I would like to call your attention to the thread entitled Calling all pathetic jackasses in which someone has apparently impersonated Ed Yourdon's email address. You'll note that the address has not been "fixed," just as the address of your impersonator in "Quotably Quoted #6" has not been "fixed," nor has OTFR even come out to declare officially that the thread was started by an impostor.

Do you therefore believe that Ed Yourdon is being subject to the same selective and injurious treatment as yourself in this case?

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), June 22, 2000.

And I would like to point out that in this thread, the email address was changed, while no changes were made to the imposted Quotably Quoted #6, even after more than one email requesting this. This makes OTFR not only a fascist for her demonstrated one-sided-ness, but also a liar, for she stated she would change it if she received an email request.

Vindicated Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), June 22, 2000.

And I would like to point out that in this thread, the email address was changed, while no changes were made to the imposted Quotably Quoted #6

Yes, you mentioned that. And, as I pointed out, no changes were made to the Ed Yourdon thread either. Is he/she demonstrating one- sidedness in this case as well?

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), June 22, 2000.

If OTFR wishes to demonstrate balance and turn from the fascism she is correctly charged with currently, she has options.

One: She could re-edit the email address in Liane's post so that it states whatever it did before.

Two: She could edit the email address in the imposter's post in Quotably Quoted #6 - in which she commented that I had emailed her.

Discussion of anything further regarding the editting of email addresses in posts is diversionary - a tactic with which fascist memetic doomers are well versed.

Also, and perhaps most importantly, in a thread entitled Sysop: Is everyone treated the same?, OTFR stated:

I'll edit it out now if that's what you want, but you must make the request via email. Only requests via emails are legitimate to me, since many trolls are good at deceiving with anonymizer IP's, and I can't be expected to memorize everyone's legitimate IP. OTFR

-- Old TB2K Forum Regular (freespeech@yahoo.com), May 13, 2000.

Why hasn't this occurred yet? In this matter OTFR is a blatant liar, in addition to being a fascist. In my opinion, these characteristics do not a good moderator make.

Anyone seen the lying fascist lately?

Vindicated Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), June 22, 2000.

I suppose OTFR could make the argument that she was emailing IPs to her "friends" in an effort to improve her memory - but who but a memetic doomer would accept such a frivilous argument?

VIndicated Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), June 22, 2000.

Discussion of anything further regarding the editting of email addresses in posts is diversionary

In what way is it diversionary? You provided two instances in which imposters used anothers email address. I simply provided a third.

And in this third case, OTFR has not even officially declared the address to be a fake, something he/she has already done in your case. Does this mean that he/she is even less fair to Ed Yourdon than he/she is to you?

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), June 22, 2000.

If OTFR wishes to know what I truly think about her not editting or posting an admission on the Ed Yourdom thread, she shoudl address them to me via email. I will not believe it is her unless the email comes from the "freespeech" (laughing while I type again...) address at yahoo.

But perhaps, hmmm, OTFR hasn't changed that address because it was actually from Mr. Yourdom - have you considered that? He has, after all, demonstrated a propensity towards mental imbalance - remember his radically incorrect Y2k predictions? Or it could be that Mr. Yourdom is actually attempting an apology for misleading pathetic and memetic doomers. I choose to believe the latter.

And, I must admit, he has some integrity for making such an admission. I was a little shocked to see that Andy Boy person turn on like that, however - I always thought the person claiming to be Andy Boy was a pathetic memetic doomer...perhaps he/she is seeing the light as well...

Vindicated Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), June 22, 2000.

But perhaps, hmmm, OTFR hasn't changed that address because it was actually from Mr. Yourdom - have you considered that?

No, that thought never entered my mind.

He has, after all, demonstrated a propensity towards mental imbalance - remember his radically incorrect Y2k predictions?

He has also demonstrated a propensity against conceding defeat and apologizing for his wrongdoing - remember his response to Poole's Open Letter?

Or it could be that Mr. Yourdom is actually attempting an apology for misleading pathetic and memetic doomers. I choose to believe the latter.

So, if I understand this correctly, you choose to believe that the King of Y2K Meme, the man responsible for creating the forum that is currently locking out yourself, Flint, Latimer, Hoffmeister, and others, this man is actually apologizing?

And, I must admit, he has some integrity for making such an admission.

Indeed. You can now be "Quotably Quoted" as saying that Ed Yourdon "has some integrity."

I was a little shocked to see that Andy Boy person turn on like that, however - I always thought the person claiming to be Andy Boy was a pathetic memetic doomer...perhaps he/she is seeing the light as well...

But if Andy Boy turned on Ed for apologizing then how would he be seeing the light? Would he not, in fact, be continuing to live in his meme, turning on Ed for betraying the doomer mantra?

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), June 22, 2000.

He who:

I was assuming that if any action would be brought it would be a civil action.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), June 22, 2000.

>> But if Andy Boy turned on Ed for apologizing then how would he be seeing the light? Would he not, in fact, be continuing to live in his meme, turning on Ed for betraying the doomer mantra? <<

I suggest we all need to cut Andy Ray a bit of slack right now, hmm@hmm.hmm. He has been under a lot of pressure the past couple of days, what with his impending lawsuit and all.

Even his spelling has gotten rather ragged at the edges, as he tries to crank out the dozens of posts necessary to justify (but not rectify) his recent mistakes of judgment and of logic. This alone would be a monumental task for any one, but Andy Ray also feels a need to maintain his facade of savoir faire.

Thus, the frequent injection of forced laughter into his latest posts. Laughter which has a sad, hysterical edge to it, I am sorry to note. That, and all the cutesy plays on names (Yourdom, Helter, Lian, Liane, and so on), plus the alarmingly frequent repetition of "memetic" and "pathetic" in all his posts, as if he were relying on word-magic to pull his chestnuts out of the fire for him.

It has been a long, desperate and a losing battle since Tuesday. I fear for his health. He obviously needs some rest. My hope is that a good night's sleep or two will restore him to the same old Andy Ray we are used to seeing. Maybe the next time he laughed, he would sound a bit more sane.

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), June 22, 2000.