"The Forces of Evil"??? How to slip into Extremist Thinkinggreenspun.com : LUSENET : TB2K spinoff uncensored : One Thread |
Reposted from a thread that will bore most people after reading the first post.Mr. Poole: I wish you well in your endeavors to reform the system. I don't think you have a chance in hell of accomplishing anything that will make a meaningful difference. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am; the forces of evil are much too powerful to be deflected peacefully. Good luck. You'll need it. -- Sergeant Friday (just.the@facts.maam), June 19, 2000.
"The forces of evil"??? SO TYPICAL.
Above and below is the mental frame work that leads to the extremism seen on TB I and Sleeze. Its just a short step from this "superiority complex" thinking of "we (I) know more than the "herd", we are in trouble and if we don't do X or Y or Z, we are "doomed". Applying Aaron Lynch's concepts to this sort of "thinking", enables one to de-construct the arguments given as "logical" when they are merely fancified "beliefs".
Where this particular poster's argument falls apart is at the point where he insists Our Systems' Method of Change aka: the political process; is hopeless and ...........because it is going in the direction he doesn't "like" (believe in), "revolution" is needed. And of course, he disclaims being its advocate right after advocating it. More of the same circular reasoning can be found all through the thread and on many others from the "True Believers" of the Shakey, Hawk, Al-D or who ever sort.
Why? Because like Yourdon, "They Know What They Know" ........AND YOU DON"T, DO YOU?? YOU, are not "worthy" UNLESS you "agree with them".
From that came all the rest of the TB absurd positions, re-inforced daily by the Planting and the Spinning and the "LinkMeistering" direction of the Self-Appointed Saviors of Us All.
This self-set intellectual trap is what YourToasty, Hyatt, North, Lord and minor voices like "Big Dog", Sysman, Paula Gordon and Heller fall into. Gordon was merely someone without the skill set (aka: the BS Detector) to avoid being mislead into her continuing Y2k "mis-adventures" to be kind.The "trap" is simple. Make up your mind you and your "facts" are correct and set the path of action. The problem is that without constant review of your position, "Time" forgets the questions you were addressing.
Never was this more obvious than with North, YourDone and Heller. They took information from 1995 to 1997 and constructed "their" house of cards. Heller used as his argument a few documents on his web site that were sourced in 1997 or 1998 as late as 1999 then had the nerve to blame a report from Nov. 1999 as his "reason" for being lead into errors of judgments. This was the typical "sorry I was wrong with excuses" dodge of the Sysman/Big Dog and the rest.
Here you have the "raw mentality" of the self-appointed "leader" which as noted is but a short hop from truly *Irrational Positions*.
Just the statement that a rant from someone else was "90% right" should set off all the warning sirens for what is to come. That "90%" is the part the poster agrees with; you may bet your assets on that.
NOTE: it doesn't matter what the issue is. The "herd" is "not informed", mislead, un-educated (because of the school system a contradiction in terms since anyone who can read and write can apply those tools when the "Truth" does appear).
It is the position of "Superiority" whether by intellect, information, or just plain "don't bother me with any *other* facts, that leads to the effect Aaron Lynch calls, a "Thought Contagion", the intellectual form of virus that "must" be spread to :
1. Save all others and
2. Re-inforce the "belief system"
And it is the application of Lynch's powerful concept that enables people to see through and think through that which "The BS Detectors" might miss.
http://www.mcs.net/~aaron/tmc.htm
Learn from this Clown below. Judge for yourself his "Superiority Complex". Then remember the German word for "Leader".
==================================================================================== http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003LSz
Mr. Bond isn't completely correct. Perhaps only 90 percent of the things he points to are realities. However, those of you who think he is completely wrong are going to learn the hard way that he is a lot closer to being right then he is to being wrong.
I feel sorry for those who have been brainwashed by the "public education" system and had never heard the truth about our current political system. I don't feel sorry for those who have heard and refused to listen; they deserve the chains they are wearing and those they will be wearing soon, which will be much heavier. Then they will cry "but I didn't know!". That will do them no good.
-- Sergeant Friday (just.The@facts.Maam), June 18, 2000.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, Flint, I'm not interested in trying to lead the unwilling anywhere. In my opinion, the majority of people in this country deserve their slavery because they are too lazy or too stupid to notice that they are slaves. They'll notice it sometime in the relatively near future, but by then it will be far too late for them to do anything about it; the "Million Mom March" is working feverishly to ensure that. My plan is to be gone before that happens, and I'm making good progress on it. I'll watch the decline into totalitarianism from a safe haven elsewhere.
-- Sergeant Friday (just.the@facts.maam), June 18, 2000.
================== --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Poole: I agree with you and with the "Dixie land Law Journal" article that many people, possibly including the one who started this thread, use arguments against the validity of the government and/or taxation that are either absurd on their face or have been repeatedly rejected by the courts. I do not recommend that anyone follow these procedures.
Where I disagree with you is that I do not believe that there is any longer a possibility of reforming the government substantially in a peaceful manner. I expect the situation to worsen at a rather rapid pace until it becomes intolerable to the citizens at large, and then a violent revolution to occur.
I'm sure someone will now accuse me of favoring such a revolution, or of fomenting it. I am doing neither. I am only stating my opinion of what will occur. If there were a peaceful means to reform the government that I thought had any chance of success, I would gladly support it. I do not believe there is such a means, as the government will not permit itself to be reformed without violence. -- Sergeant Friday (just.the@facts.maam), June 18, 2000.
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http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003LSz
-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), June 19, 2000
it,s hard to be humble--when your perfect'in so many way,s. I,M NOT PEEERFECCT. i,m a sinner being worked on. i just try to co-operate.-- i figure,since GOD created ALL things! seem,s like HIS words have significance.
-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 19, 2000.
Don't forget PShannon, who took over "wangers review"Today's Mass Media Propaganda Tidbits . . .
"Today's tidbits focus on the current media rush to prevent "Panic." They're really working overtime on this one, gang. And, they're trying to give the impression that anyone who does anything out of the ordinary will ultimately be the CAUSE of any major breakdowns that occur. Regulars here are familiar with this idea. Hopefully the "Masses" won't be propagandized into believing this, though I'm sure they will.
--------- Obviously, this is the big feel-good propaganda piece for the week. There are dozens of versions of this story, everybody's printing it. Of course, at this point, it's probably totally meaningless, but nobody's saying that. Let's just pat ourselves on the back, and be "glad it's over." ------------------
[There are other choice comments on that thread that will interest y2kpro and andyray]
-- ROTFLMAO! (LOL!@LOL!.LOL!!!), June 19, 2000.
Ah yes, My Little Chickadees. "Prepare". This is a good collection of nit wits. Especially towards the end after Mutha leaves them to high five each other.In case anyone forgot, re: Traveling 1/1/2000, I was in the only commercial flight in US airspace for the rollovers in 4 time zones. 1/3 the plane was American Airline people flying to "party on".
The world laughed at Americans for this crap and it was embarrassing to think it even got as far as the Media:
Mutha,E. did brought up a good point. Why do you bother calling this forum if you don't believe in fallback contingency planning?
-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net< /A>), February 05, 1999.
Boy scouts are dangerous.
-- Reporter (foo@foo.bar), February 05, 1999.
If the government can stockpile stuff (FOOD...ICBM's, parts, fuel, etc), why can't the average citizen?
-- Faze the Nation (dazed@confused.com), February 05, 1999.
Good point...however, I don't think ICBMs are available at Lehman's.
-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), February 05, 1999.
Uh...not that I would want to purchase an ICBM. Just thought I'd make that clear :-)
-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), February 05, 1999.
Mutha (and othas)Yes, it's true, the truth does sting.
Please, however, be aware of the difference between EDITORIALIZING and PROPAGANDIZING. What I did was editorialize. I made it very clear what I was presenting and why. The articles and people quoted in them, however, are not so clear on their motivations. All of this stuff taken as a whole, (again, these were just tidbits) with little actual substance, leads me to conclude that it's propaganda. Again, I state that this is my opinion.
"I'm glad it's over," said a very tired Ronnie Hauptman, Year 2000 director for Galileo International Inc., the world's second-largest travel reservation company. "Our work paid off. . . "
(WHAT'S over? It was only ONE DAY! How can they possible know ANYTHING relevant?)
``The American public can be confident that the major domestic companies, which provide most of the key foods, will continue to operate..."
(WHAT am I to base this confidence on? A statement by a man who would say something like this?)...
...Glickman warned consumers against ``needless and frivolous stockpiling of supplies. . .'' (PUH-LEEEZE!)
We think its irresponsible for GTE to suggest that consumers need several weeks of cash, CBA spokesperson John Stafford said. It is the kind of thing that could contribute to consumer panic.
(He only thinks it's irresponsible because he knows that Banking is a big scam. He's not worried about "the consumers," he's worried about "the system.")
-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), February 05, 1999.
There was a story in an earlier thread on hoarding, from Old Git, in which "government men" come with the local sheriff and tell him he can't have three hogs, only one. He ends up agreeing to shoot two hogs and bury them. Not redistribute them to the poor, but destroy them. The whole point of preventing your slaves from stockpiling food is to make them dependent. Dependent upon you for a handout, or dependent on you for employment in the industries you need workers for. In times of economic upheaval, you are also going to institute wage and price controls. If people have plenty of food and supplies stocked, and trade among themselves, use their tools and supplies to create thriving local economies, etc., that is a huge threat to the larger system of people-management. So all such trade must be declared a criminal "black market" (the same thing has happened with drugs, and for the same reason).E.
-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), February 05, 1999.
Dammit E...I HATE it when you make sense.
-- a (a@a.a), February 05, 1999.
I guess I'm breaking the rules. Got about $700 in the Y2k fund. Grab another 20 or 40 with each MAC visit. Bunch of canned stuff in pantry. Got 2nd 55 gal. drum for kero last week, empty. First is full though. So, what's the problem? Maybe ther're worried that if nothing else happens, us horders will drag down consumer spending in Jan. I won't be needing much from the grocery store then. I won't be needing to make a MAC run for quite a while. And all that extra kero goes into the tank - burns better than #2 fuel oil anyway.
-- Sysman (working@it.edu), February 05, 1999.
Why this PR blitz, why now?Recall that this country runs almost exclusively on polling.
They've been conducting Y2k polls for several months now -- really good, scientific ones, not the half-baked junk that we've been getting on the web.
The results of these polls have shown exactly what we hoped they would show and what they hoped they wouldn't -- a steadily rising level of opinion in favor of Y2k preparedness. Extrapolation of these trends indicated severe systemic risk, especially to the financial sector, well before 1/1/00.
This has led to the decision that these levels of Y2k "concern" must be measurably reduced, and soon.
That led to an unusually candid decision to assuage those fears via a PR blitz. (At least they told us up front they were going to be doing this, so it should come as no surprise to anyone on this NG).
And that has led to this recent series of Y2OK blurbs and sound- bites, which, predictably, either don't stand on their own merit due to a complete lack of quantifiable evidence, or consist of minor and not-so-minor isolated milestones brought to the foreground while ignoring the larger context, the hope being that the casual listener will extrapolate each specific, positive piece as being representative of the whole.
It might work.
Is this their most reasonable approach? Probably.
Are there risks involved with this approach? Definitely.
Do they have a choice? Not according to their polls.
-- Nathan (nospam@all.com), February 06, 1999.
Clinton (and his defenders) destroyed the fundamental "faith in the government" that the government and the media needed to carry out this re-propaganda plan.However, this conclusion indicates that 30-45% of the population will listen to the propaganda - come the inverted conclusion "I should do the opposite of what Clinton says for my own health and the health of my family" - and so prepare even harder.
We still lose many individuals who could have been taught to think for themselves, and take care of themselves. But that's not what this governmetn wants before the 2000 elections.
-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), February 07, 1999.
-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), June 19, 2000.
Ah yes, My Little Chickadees. "Prepare". This is a good collection of nit wits. Especially towards the end after Mutha leaves them to high five each other.In case anyone forgot, re: Traveling 1/1/2000, I was in the only commercial flight in US airspace for the rollovers in 4 time zones. 1/3 the plane was American Airline people flying to "party on".
The world laughed at Americans for this crap and it was embarrassing to think it even got as far as the Media:
Mutha,E. did brought up a good point. Why do you bother calling this forum if you don't believe in fallback contingency planning?
-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net< /A>), February 05, 1999.
Boy scouts are dangerous.
-- Reporter (foo@foo.bar), February 05, 1999.
If the government can stockpile stuff (FOOD...ICBM's, parts, fuel, etc), why can't the average citizen?
-- Faze the Nation (dazed@confused.com), February 05, 1999.
Good point...however, I don't think ICBMs are available at Lehman's.
-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), February 05, 1999.
Uh...not that I would want to purchase an ICBM. Just thought I'd make that clear :-)
-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), February 05, 1999.
Mutha (and othas)Yes, it's true, the truth does sting.
Please, however, be aware of the difference between EDITORIALIZING and PROPAGANDIZING. What I did was editorialize. I made it very clear what I was presenting and why. The articles and people quoted in them, however, are not so clear on their motivations. All of this stuff taken as a whole, (again, these were just tidbits) with little actual substance, leads me to conclude that it's propaganda. Again, I state that this is my opinion.
"I'm glad it's over," said a very tired Ronnie Hauptman, Year 2000 director for Galileo International Inc., the world's second-largest travel reservation company. "Our work paid off. . . "
(WHAT'S over? It was only ONE DAY! How can they possible know ANYTHING relevant?)
``The American public can be confident that the major domestic companies, which provide most of the key foods, will continue to operate..."
(WHAT am I to base this confidence on? A statement by a man who would say something like this?)...
...Glickman warned consumers against ``needless and frivolous stockpiling of supplies. . .'' (PUH-LEEEZE!)
We think its irresponsible for GTE to suggest that consumers need several weeks of cash, CBA spokesperson John Stafford said. It is the kind of thing that could contribute to consumer panic.
(He only thinks it's irresponsible because he knows that Banking is a big scam. He's not worried about "the consumers," he's worried about "the system.")
-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), February 05, 1999.
There was a story in an earlier thread on hoarding, from Old Git, in which "government men" come with the local sheriff and tell him he can't have three hogs, only one. He ends up agreeing to shoot two hogs and bury them. Not redistribute them to the poor, but destroy them. The whole point of preventing your slaves from stockpiling food is to make them dependent. Dependent upon you for a handout, or dependent on you for employment in the industries you need workers for. In times of economic upheaval, you are also going to institute wage and price controls. If people have plenty of food and supplies stocked, and trade among themselves, use their tools and supplies to create thriving local economies, etc., that is a huge threat to the larger system of people-management. So all such trade must be declared a criminal "black market" (the same thing has happened with drugs, and for the same reason).E.
-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), February 05, 1999.
Dammit E...I HATE it when you make sense.
-- a (a@a.a), February 05, 1999.
I guess I'm breaking the rules. Got about $700 in the Y2k fund. Grab another 20 or 40 with each MAC visit. Bunch of canned stuff in pantry. Got 2nd 55 gal. drum for kero last week, empty. First is full though. So, what's the problem? Maybe ther're worried that if nothing else happens, us horders will drag down consumer spending in Jan. I won't be needing much from the grocery store then. I won't be needing to make a MAC run for quite a while. And all that extra kero goes into the tank - burns better than #2 fuel oil anyway.
-- Sysman (working@it.edu), February 05, 1999.
Why this PR blitz, why now?Recall that this country runs almost exclusively on polling.
They've been conducting Y2k polls for several months now -- really good, scientific ones, not the half-baked junk that we've been getting on the web.
The results of these polls have shown exactly what we hoped they would show and what they hoped they wouldn't -- a steadily rising level of opinion in favor of Y2k preparedness. Extrapolation of these trends indicated severe systemic risk, especially to the financial sector, well before 1/1/00.
This has led to the decision that these levels of Y2k "concern" must be measurably reduced, and soon.
That led to an unusually candid decision to assuage those fears via a PR blitz. (At least they told us up front they were going to be doing this, so it should come as no surprise to anyone on this NG).
And that has led to this recent series of Y2OK blurbs and sound- bites, which, predictably, either don't stand on their own merit due to a complete lack of quantifiable evidence, or consist of minor and not-so-minor isolated milestones brought to the foreground while ignoring the larger context, the hope being that the casual listener will extrapolate each specific, positive piece as being representative of the whole.
It might work.
Is this their most reasonable approach? Probably.
Are there risks involved with this approach? Definitely.
Do they have a choice? Not according to their polls.
-- Nathan (nospam@all.com), February 06, 1999.
Clinton (and his defenders) destroyed the fundamental "faith in the government" that the government and the media needed to carry out this re-propaganda plan.However, this conclusion indicates that 30-45% of the population will listen to the propaganda - come the inverted conclusion "I should do the opposite of what Clinton says for my own health and the health of my family" - and so prepare even harder.
We still lose many individuals who could have been taught to think for themselves, and take care of themselves. But that's not what this governmetn wants before the 2000 elections.
-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), February 07, 1999.
-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), June 19, 2000.
I wonder if cpr is still maintaining his 'files'....http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000q7k
-- (anon2@anon2.anon2), June 19, 2000.
THE SQUIRELLS & THE ANTS, KNOW WUZ-UP.
-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), June 20, 2000.
Ah, Old Git (anon2) is still telling those same old lies....some things never change! Maybe if you keep repeating the lie, someone will eventually believe you....(not likely but what the hell....)
-- Keep going (old@git.outings.R), June 20, 2000.
More words of wisdom from cpr.http://stand77.com/wwwboard/messages/1373.html
-- Straight from (the@horse's.mouth), June 20, 2000.
ISN"T THIS "SPECIAL"?????
It is silly, don't worry. We are simply a bunch of intelligent, reflective, prudent, common-sense buddies from around the globe who feel, given the evidence, that Y2K may present inconveniences, problems, and dangers to our living continuation. Therefore, we get together to examine news, thoughts, reports, and tips about life pre-post-sans computers.Even if somebody were to waste considerable time preparing background files, that info would be too boring for anybody to read. W'all present zero danger and are the bedrock salt of the earth.
Come any type of disaster, our mental & physical prep will be life-saving to our neighborhoods and we will be much appreciated. The .gov .mil is quietly thrilled there are calm, thoughtful, sensible ppl amongst the crowds to hold and maintain a rational center, even if just squirreled away in each little abode. One less casualty, one less worry.
Be proud of your foresight and conquer worry and inertia! Preps dissolve worry, melt away fear, strengthen logical resolve, help the economy. Cheer up and gather more clean water containers!
xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxx
-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), May 17, 1999.
-- cpr (buytexas@swbell.net), June 20, 2000.
Keeping files on Ashton and Leska wasn't necessary.
-- Ghost (of@Ed.Murrow), June 20, 2000.
Ghost,aka Netghost, aka many other fake names/email addresses....A challenge - beg, borrow, steal some courage. Use the name you used as a doomer at TB2000. Then post. lol.
-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), June 20, 2000.