Folks, an outsider's view:

This idea of a planned transportation system is a great idea in a planned society. Unfortunately for you, we don't have one .

Now, I may retire to the area in the next decade, and I don't want to see it become a bigger [god damn awful] mess than it is at the moment.

Let's, face it. Planning is good for the future. The plans may work in 50 y, if non-centralization works. Before that, no way. Money must be spent to increase road surface area. By-the-way, the cities that I mentioned [similar in size to Seattle] have no HOV lanes and none of the TRAFFIC problems of Seattle.

You just have to agree, that for our times, Craig is correct. It is ok for you to be wrong.

Best wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), June 11, 2000

Answers

It never fails to amaze me that the people who will state adamantly that "there is no room to expand roadways" somehow believe that SmartGrowth with greatly increased population density will be accomplished easily by administrative fiat.

In the former case, it would be necessary to obtain (perhaps condemn) a LINEAR strip of land perhaps a hundred feet wide. This would involve getting the room by displacing current properties. That would be neither easy nor cheap, but it would be possible.

In the latter case, a LARGE AREA would have to be converted from relatively low density to higher density. This too would involve getting the room by displacing current properties, but it would involve doing this over a far greater area than the former case. That could only be harder and more expensive than the former case.

Let's be honest, we have leased capacity through transit, in lieu of buying it through expanding roads to meet current needs. And to the extent that we subsidize people who are not transit dependent but merely want "transportation choices" to take transit and HOV lanes, we divert even more resources that could (and should) go into fixing the problem. the craigster

-- (craigcar@crosswinds.net), June 12, 2000.

The outsider is a fool, and craig is even worse. Give me everything but give them nothing. When traffic is backed up for miles, are you really stupid enough to think that one more lane will cut all the commute time in half? Want to save time in traffic? Keep assholes like craig and acorn off the road, you know acorn, the wench nobody listens too? The fat wench.....

-- (youareshiot@assholesrus.net), June 12, 2000.

[Want to save time in traffic?] Get rid of these 30 ton buses with overpaid union drivers and two passengers (both of them off duty overpaid union drivers, riding for free).

Screw Transit! Build Roads!

zowie

-- (zowie@hotmail.com), June 13, 2000.

Typical Mikey. Resorts to personal attacks because he doesn't have the intelligence to debate. He is known for his foul mouth and uncontroled outbursts. Not to mention his habitual lying.

Wouldn't it be nice if he were able to defend Transit's ideals and goals without this sad, adolescent behavior?

I suppose he is telecommuting and has far too little Union business to take care of. Ripping off the dues payers oas usual.

He can be reached at 1-800-459-5360. If he is not in, leave a message with the ATU 1384 President Fred Ropes about how you feel towards Transit Unions in general and Mikey's posts in particular.

Call often! It's free! But not for them, LOL! (hint hint)

-- Marsha (acorn_nut@hotmail.com), June 13, 2000.

"Call often! It's free! But not for them, LOL! (hint hint) " Better yet, fax them. Of course, your fax machine won't get another fax machine, it'll just get someone answering the phone, but fax machines can be VERY patient and keep trying for days, depending on how you have them programmed. They have a lot of patience that way, fax machines do.

"W"

-- (westerling@hotmail.com), June 13, 2000.

Well, Let me tell you something. We have put this site out to many people. I saw one posting earlier, from the same fool, and was accused of writing that. Once again, I do thank you, but I am not your, youareshit@assholesrus. However, from the postings I do believe it is someone from Kitsap County. If I post, you will know who I am. But then I can't understand why you folks think that there is nobody who dislikes you but me. And to this specific posting.....This person is right, but it takes a mix of funding. You will always need more roads, just like you will always need more transit. But to eliminate one to increase the other, no matter which way you go, is wrong. not only is it wrong, it won't work. Mike

-- Mike (mkpow1962@earthlink.net), June 13, 2000.

"You will always need more roads, just like you will always need more transit. " Except the transit dependent population is going DOWN both as a share of the market, and in absolute terms, while the non transit dependent numbers are going UP.

But I have no objection to funding transit in proportion to its passenger miles, about 5% of the transit budget.

I also think that we ought to raise fares for the non transit dependent "transportation choices" types to AT LEAST the national average for fare recovery for transit, about 40% of the operating expenses. Let's see, what was the farebox recovery for Kitsap transit??? Oh yes....10% (www.ntdprogram.com/ntd/Profiles.nsf/1998+All/0020/$file/P0020.PDF)

Of course, if you add in the $6 million a year in CAPITAL expenses, that drops it to fares covering only about 7 and a half percent of total expenses.

I think people who really "want choices" ought to be willing to pay a little bit more than 10 cents on the dollar, don't you? the craigster

-- (craigcar@crosswinds.net), June 13, 2000.

Projected overruns have officials worried about Sound Transit - 
Extra $500 million in light-rail costs might hurt other projects
2000-10-05
by Bruce Rommel
Journal Reporter



A coalition of elected officials and community activists are asking 
Sound Transit to put the brakes on development of the $2 billion-plus 
Link light-rail line between SeaTac and Seattle.



Opponents point to projected cost overruns of more than $500 million 
they fear might mean elimination of neighborhood stations. They also 
say Link is becoming a ``subway'' with light-rail trains stopping at 
underground stations so deep that passengers would have to ride 
elevators.



``Is this what we thought we were getting?'' King County Councilwoman 
Maggi Fimia asked last night at a meeting attended by more than 100 
at the King County Courthouse in downtown Seattle.



Fimia and other elected officials fear the soaring costs of a light-
rail system would draw funds away from bus service and other 
transportation projects to complete tunnels and underground stations 
and convert the downtown Seattle bus tunnel for the electric Link 
passenger trains.



The meeting was called by Fimia and County Councilman Rob McKenna, 
along with city officials from Seattle and the cities of Sammamish 
and Normandy Park.



Fimia and others say they're simply asking for an ``independent 
audit'' and review to see if Link should proceed as planned or if 
there are other solutions to relieving the region's traffic 
congestion.



Calls for an audit or review of the light-rail plan have been 
increasing while Sound Transit is negotiating with a company to bore 
a 4.6-mile tunnel beneath the Lake Washington Ship Canal and Seattle 
for the light rail line between the downtown area and the University 
District.



Sound Transit isn't releasing figures on project bids.



King County Councilman Greg Nickels, who also is vice-chairman of the 
Sound Transit board of directors, said negotiations for the project 
should be completed by December, then all the costs and figures will 
be made public.



``All the numbers have to line up, or it's a no go,'' Nickels said of 
the light-rail plan.



Bids for the tunnel far exceeded Sound Transit's $500 million 
budgeted for the work, leading to concerns the light-rail line is in 
trouble.



Dave Earling, chairman of the Sound Transit board, called the 
coalition's efforts ``a last-ditch effort'' to stop light-rail.



Opposition to Link is coming from several factions, Earling said, 
including those who want more roads or more buses or creation of a 
Seattle monorail system.



The 1996 ballot measure creating Sound Transit to develop light-rail, 
new bus service and Sounder commuter rail was approved by 57 percent 
of the voters.
  
 
 

-- Mark Stilson (mark842@hotmail.com), October 05, 2000.