I am thinking of buiding a log home,my preliminary research leads me to belive that I can construct a 1500 sq. ft. house for approx. $100,000 or slightly less (will be doing ALOT of the inside work myself).

Thanks.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), June 11, 2000

Answers

>for approx. $100,000

That seems high to me. Seems like they were building them up in Michigan for around 30K, but they may have been using wood from trees already on the land and the total sq footage might have been smaller. In any case, I encourage you to do some more research. Are you in an area where straw bales are doable? Don't laugh ... it's an upcoming trend in New Mexico.

-- (kb8um8@yahoo.com), June 11, 2000.

Cap:

You need to look into the trivial things. We went through the same process 10y ago. It turns out that there are problems with insurance and all of the financial parts of the deal. Check those out first.

Best wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), June 11, 2000.

kb8,

Researched the straw bale and was fairly impressed and might try it later just for shits and giggles,but,in the meantime I think I'll stick with something more conventional,I do have some cool sites for ya if your'e interested.The 30K estimate is about right right for the shell,depending on size,but it is the internal(builder) issues that are of the most interest to me at this point.I realize that prices vary from each part of the country and will take that into consideration definetly.The percent of expenditures is the crux of my investigation.

Z,

The "trivial" things have been covered,I think things may have changed from 10 yrs ago as I had no problem financially or with the ins. people.

I am trying to narrow down the economics of this endeavor and thought I'd throw it out for answers.Thanks yaw'll.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), June 11, 2000.

Cap..

Ive had two experiences with log homes and they both were loaded with various problems. In the late 60s I built a small cabin on a lake in Michigan. In the mid 80s a built a much bigger structure in the hill country of central Texas. Both were kits and required a lot of work and construction skills. A Company called Bellaire made the cabin kit and they might be out of business. Nothing fit as shown and we had to do a ton of refitting.

Lindal made the Lodge kit I put up in San Marcos and this was a quality unit. Still, we had a lot of little fit-ups that didnt work as shown. The most important item is the foundation or slab work. It must be done very well and be precise to insure a quality fit-up. Any mistakes at the bottom will compound as you move upwards.

Listen to what was said above regarding financing, insurance, and local codes. There are many companies offering kits and they can give you finished units to look at in your area or hopefully close by. My advice to you is DO IT! I would love to put up one of the real large units that are available as they are magnificent to look at and fabulous to live in.

Good Luck!

-- Ra (tion@l.1), June 11, 2000.

Ra,

I will be getting the log home co.(that just so happens to be located within 1 mile of my site) to build the shell on my pre built basement foundation,from there I have my own contractors and myself to deal with.Just trying to get any input available,it is appreciated.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), June 11, 2000.

Cap:

If you have dealt with what I termed the "trivial" things, go for it. Log homes that I have seen are great and special.

Best wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), June 11, 2000.

Capnfun, contact Patrick Mc at EZboard, he most definately has built a log home...

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), June 11, 2000.

Kritter,

Thanks for the heads up,but alas The SlEZ is no mans land for moi.I am sure that Patrick knows a great deal about log homes and I would love to chat with him but things are how they are.Thanks though for lookin' out for me,I appreciate ya.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), June 12, 2000.

Capn,

Am interested if you have the time, why logs? Just a hobby kind of thing, or what?

Good ol' brick,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), June 12, 2000.

Log home cam:

http://www.logcam.com/index.htm

-- Data_Junkie (none@avail.able), June 12, 2000.

Frank,

Have lived in brick,frame and log homes in the past but enjoyed the feeling of the log home the best ie. more relaxing.Very little drywall, standard moldings and trim.Plus,I believe that if cared for properly a log home to be more durable through the years than a brick home.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), June 12, 2000.

Cap... I live in a cypress log home (B.K. Cypress, Bronson, FL) with light pine interior. We didn't build this home but I can tell you that the work involved in constructing these homes is unbelievable. I am so glad we didn't build one ourselves. We may or may not have been successful and still married.

That said, we love our home. Our exterior is made of square logs and they stack on one another. Looks much different than a round log home. And having the interior walls, ceiling in pine, well, it's just beautiful. If you investigate BK's homes, you might get an idea. All I can say is neither my husband or I are anxious to go anywhere but home. Our house was located on a lake/swamp until a few weeks ago when this darn drought dried up acres and acres of water, fish, turtles, gators, otters... so sad. Anyway, even with a giant black hole in our backyard, we still love our home because it is a log home.

I can't say about financing, we were able to purchase already built. The insurance is high, about $1000 per year and worth every penny of it.

The logs also can contain a variety of pests, some that can effect the integrity of the structure. I would look into this a great deal. I don't think cypress has such problems, but our interior pine shows some signs of unwanted critters. They come with the wood. I would consider contacting a pest management company. To close your deal, you will need to be signed off by one. They may be able to give advice re: wood types, pest types, etc...

By the way, having the interior slatted with pine in various architectural angles is one of the best parts of this home. Very warm feeling. It is probably as important to "log" the inside as much as possible to get the full effect of the log cabin while indoors. Of course this depends on the darkness/lightness of the interior wood as well. (We have some plaster in kitchen, bathrooms, bedrooms except master br.)

And, the logs keep heat and cold in/out at your discretion. The builder also put double panes in the windows. Also helpful for noise. (We live on 11 acres but our neighbors like to par-tay.)

You are smart in letting the "professionals" build the exterior. Building these homes requires great strenth (those logs are h-e-a-v- y) as well as superior capentry skills.

I wish you the best in this endeavor. It's gonna be a biggie! If you decide to proceed, please keep in mind that the ends WILL justify the means. It will be worth it...

just mho...

-- keep the faith... (booann77@hotmail.com), June 12, 2000.

Capn,

I can see living in one, that'd be kind of neat, but *building* one seems like you have a calling of some kind. I guess my question should have been do you want to *build a house* or *build a LOG house*?

I think you've answered both though. Good Luck!

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), June 12, 2000.

Keep the faith,

Yep,you just make me want it all the more,I do very much like cypress and from what I am learning responds very well to the Tennessee climate.As far as me building the exterior,I can do alot of things but operating a crane isn't one of them,but I am very adept at most things inside,especially sinse there will be very little drywall installed.

Thanks for your take on my question and I am truly sorry to hear of the situation occuring to your lake,that must suck.Did kind of have to laugh about your neighbors though,for they must surely raise some holy hell,especially if you're on 11 acres.

Frank,

Yes,I have allways been anamored with log homes but was hooked when I moved into a log home that was Henry Clays' when he 1st moved to Kentucky,it was a little rough but took to fixin' up like a charm,it was grand! He had quite the eye for picking a location as well.Great accoustics,and being a songwriter this is important,but just another positive aspect of this dream.

BTW,If I had the time and money I would probably try doing the whole 9 yards myself,but instead will practice building a smaller structure on the property,if for no other reason than shits and giggles.

Many thanks to all for the input,I appreciate ya : )

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), June 12, 2000.

Capnfun...

.....I'm building one now; stay away from the kits, they're way overpriced. Do you have any particular questions yet unanswered?

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), June 12, 2000.

Patrick,

Many thanks and yes I probably have more questions than you can shake a stick at but most are probably simplistic.

1. In doing a cost analysis I have come to the conclusion that my cost at MAX would be $85.00 per square ft,that figure will drop because of the inside work and some outside work I am capable of.Does the $85.00 seem reasonable?

2. I have a projected time line of 7-8 mo's,does that correlate with your experience?

3. I have a meeting with my insurance people later this week,does the $1,000.00 per year stated by Keep the faith seem in line?

I am in a position that I have to make every dollar count.I wouldn't even be attempting this except for the fact that through a lot of luck and alot of McGyverism I was able to turn $10,000.00 into $70,000.00 in the last 3 mo's.It seems to be moving in that direction very fast and while I am very thourough I still like to cover my bases and talk to those with the practical know how and experience I have not gleened(yet).

Thanks Patrick!!!

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), June 12, 2000.

"1. In doing a cost analysis I have come to the conclusion that my cost at MAX would be $85.00 per square ft,that figure will drop because of the inside work and some outside work I am capable of.Does the $85.00 seem reasonable?"

.....I've taken a very unique route with the one I'm building, cap; I found an old Amishman to do the logs for me. I had priced some out that were pine for $2.60/ft. but he's giving me white oak for $1.76/ft. What I'm actually building would have to be considered a post and beam timber frame with timber fill logs; 6"x8" timbers and a steel roofing system. I did all of the design work myself, as well as all of the building. I'll save both from not paying for labor and not using a mortgage, (huge savings on both), so I'll end up spending 45- 50K and I'll have 4200 sq. ft.

"2. I have a projected time line of 7-8 mo's,does that correlate with your experience?"

.....Mine will have taken considerably longer, as I started working under a five year plan; (is that patience or what?!). I'm in my fourth year now and we should be ready to move in early next summer if the schedule works out this year as it had. My son broke his leg a couple months ago, so that will take some of the resources away, along with a good helper for a time, but he's almost over it.

"3. I have a meeting with my insurance people later this week,does the $1,000.00 per year stated by Keep the faith seem in line?"

.....I have yet to check out this aspect of it, and I will probably self-insure. I'm sure this would call for extreme vigilance, but I've always been pretty careful in that regard.

.....There are some really great books about the building and design of log homes, but what really locked it in for us was that we both loved to see huge beams running over head with a lot of open-air. We put it just up the hill from where we are now and right on the edge of the woods. The north end will be virtually all glass, (northern light is vital to us art-types), and the view is absolutely breath- taking.

.....My wife has had to really call on her reserve of patience to bear with me all of this time, but now she's starting to see that a home that size, free and clear of the bankers is indeed an enviable position to be in. Just take your time with all of the little decisions up front, then go for it; you'll be glad you did.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), June 13, 2000.

Patrick,

You my friend have my respect,four years and counting,THAT is patience!!! Especially with that size house!!! I too share your thoughts on the motgage and labor issues but all I can do is negate both as much as possible.

I have to ask,in constructing your house are you using a crane or block,tackle and pulley's?

Sorry to hear of your son's accident,but if you'd like a hand/back for a day or two and you are somewhat close to Nashville,I'm game.

Thanks and good fortunes.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), June 13, 2000.

Ansure????

At the EZ board!!!!!!!!!!!

They can build log cabins.

Seek and ye shall absorb.

-- -- -- (Bugs@hole.com), June 13, 2000.

capnfun...

A couple of things... we are getting 911 roads where I live and that may effect the insurance premium but we do live within five miles of a (volunteer) fire department.

My husband just built a small ranch style two story (no high ceilings), round log home. They built the outside and framed the inside. It was a BK Cypress kit. It took my husband's crew (two helpers, one carpenter) three to four months working about two-thirds time. I am quite sure there was no crane involved.

My house has many different cuts and angles. Without a kit, I imagine you'd have to be quite good at it to get all the right cuts, lengths, etc. I think having all the lumber pre-cut is the main advantage to a kit. Undoubtedly, this Patrick fellow is a most valuable resource.

We just lucked out on our already built home and got it discounted because the owner/builder was a professional grower and the property was seized. The owner/grower never actually lived in the house. The house is on a hill and he built a basement into it (basements are unheard of in Florida). The house was just a front for his growing operation. Interesting...

PS...It RAINED here yesterday!! Hopefully, this will be the beginning of our rainy season...

Best to you...

-- keep the faith... (booann77@hotmail.com), June 13, 2000.

capnfun...

.....When we put the frame together, I just built scaffold that we could use to get from floor to floor, so when the third level logs were going into place, we had to get them all built and on the second level, then drag the scaffold up with us. The fifteen footers were a real bear, and no, we didn't use block and tackle or anything other than muscle power. My little brother has helped with most of it, and he's only 5'5" and 140#, but strong nonetheless.

.....Now that the fill logs are going in, I did get a block and tackle set for when we get up toward the top. The tricky part is making sure we get the proper gap in between each row to compensate for a tad bit of irregularity in the log size. Some are right at the eight-inch mark some vary by as much as an eighth inch, (most are less than that).

.....One thing I would probably do differently, is instead of all chain saws and chisel, I would get a large circular saw for the notching. I think that would afford more precise cutting when critical. We did manage to only ruin one long log, (by notching the underside when it should have been on top), but we could use it for a short one and add another long one to the next order.

.....The reason that it has taken so long, is that we did the basement as well, 50' x 30', and I laid every block. We also poured the floor with a small mixer as opposed to ordering in all of the cement at once, and laid radiant heat pipe into the floor to take the chill off, since the living room will be down there, (I didn't want the TV squawking all through the house).

.....My son broke his leg jumping off a ladder in the barn, (after being told at least a hundred times not to), but as he told me the other day, he'll soon be "all-terrain" again. He's almost done with therapy, and has been bending it a little more each day.

.....We're up in Ohio, so that would be a fair trip for you to come help out, but I cetainly appreciate the offer. If you ever get up this way on a journey, give me a holler and I'll show you the place.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), June 13, 2000.

Patrick,

Your tenacity is to be commended as well as doing so many things by yourself,don't see too much of that these days.I would love the challenge you have undertaken but for various reasons will let the pro's erect the shell,then finish the brunt of the inside myself.

Thanks for the invite,if I go to Michigan this summer I'll give you a holler.And again,I appreciate your time and info.

Take care.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), June 13, 2000.

cap...

My husband's standing here telling me all this so here goes... sorry if redundant to your knowledge... or doesn't make since (the typist is no builder)..

- Built floor system 2x12 16" on center, all pressure treated, tongue and groove plywood, ** PT is important ** center beam 18" carrier, 5" thick, 15ft 2x12 on each side of that.. outside band used 2x12 three-quarter PT plywood, another 2x12, another three-quarter plywood, another 2x12, all glued and nailed

- Set all the logs first floor (no crane) Build up to three to four logs high On each side of every window and door opening, lay a 2x6 on the floor, lag it to the floor, run a 2x6 up the wall, every other log put a lag in it (10"). Then run a brace from the wall 2x6 top to 2x6 on floor with lags. come up 40-48" off the floor and put 2x4 level from the wall and you can lay your 2x12 on that for your scaffolding. Lay then lag, lay then lag... after trusses set, and interior walls, remove the braces and lags... (my comment... huh???)

- lags for logs are recommended 28" apart. DH says use 18" so walls won't move and shift, countersink every lag...

- Built all interior walls

- Set trusses (with crane)

- Plywood to roof

- cut in flashing on all porches

- Facia and soffet

- three porches, hand rails, steps

- all windows, doors

2x6 outside window trim gives 1.5 overhang and better look

- trim inside and out

- 2600 total sq feet

- kit from BK cypress... guesstimate around $30,000

- two carpenters, three helpers working full time for three months >>> $26,000

- used pressure treated anywhere and everywhere you can!!

- used 16 and one quarter drive circular saw. Mikita, carbide tip... blade $200 saw was $875 new (we bought used)...

- he highly recommends a kit because it's easier, cleaner look, don't have to notch, cut corners, no v-grooves, no rain because designed to keep water out. No kit must use cement and could rot when wet, kits are designed with a lip that overlaps to keep water out.. you'll be happy with it when you are done.

- recommends 8" logs cost allowing, stronger and quieter

- insulate interior walls to inhibit bathroom, other noises

- he likes dormers over skylights... skylight will eventually leak and dormers can provide similar lighting

- 24-26 guage galvaluve(??) tin, 5 v crimp>> old style look, 55 year roof (if you buy stainless steel screws too you will never have to &*$% with it the rest of your life!!

cap... these are things off the top of his head... hope it helps!!

email if you want any more stuff...

-- keep the faith (booann77@hotmail.com), June 13, 2000.

keep the faith...

.....I'd be awfully leary of using too much pressure treated lumber in my dwelling; the stuff it gets treated with is really nasty on your health. Granted you'll want it for, say, the foundation cap, but as far as in the interior, I'd stay away from it.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), June 13, 2000.

Patrick:

When we built our house that was true; but things have changed. There are now a variety of treatments. Haven't done much of a search on the subject but this is one site that "claims" to have some information.

Pressure treated

I'm told that there are new treatments which can be used on the interior. Some are mentioned here.

Best wishes,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), June 13, 2000.

.....Thanks, Z...

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), June 13, 2000.

Patrick:

Note that PermaTrib contains Dursban which will be withdrawn for home use. Not because it has any health problems, but some kind of political fight which is not clear. It may not be available for home use in the future. I'm not sure what the effect will be on treated lumber.

Best wishes,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), June 13, 2000.