Now that Y2K is over, have folks like Doc, CPR, Pro and Decker assumed the rank of trolls? Or are they saving us from something? What is your opinion?

-- Pollster (polls@re.open), June 05, 2000

Answers

Better poll...

Is the NBA rigged?

-- Doc Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), June 05, 2000.

NAH. The NBA is pure as snow. Not as clean as Pro Golf where people call penalties on themselves but.........

Pay no attention the zombie who will now fill up thread after thread as he did on De-Bunking Y2k.

Its just the Schwartz who is with us all. Again. Doing what he does under many names. I suppose "Club VB" is not working out for him.

-- Mystery Guest (Mystery-Guest@sign-in-please.com), June 05, 2000.

I know they helped me with some balance about y2k.

-- just (wondering@home.now), June 05, 2000.

A little bit of both. Someone needs to remind us of all the Chicken Littles on the Internet. On the other hand, it IS June...

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), June 05, 2000.

I've never gone in much for this labelling anyway. Have dealt in it, because it was the lay of the land, but never really agreed.

Never really understood what a "troll" was. Don't get me wrong -- I know what a troll is in the traditional sense, on normal newsgroups, and all that.

But anything dealing with Y2k is another animal altogether. I've seen as many definitions of what a "Y2k troll" is as there are colors in the rainbow.

Also the term "Polly". Comes from the movie "Pollyanna". Pollyanna was a person who saw everything in nothing but the rosiest of terms. Anyone who had that attitude in Y2k didn't really see the potential for problems. I don't really think anyone was ever a true "Pollyanna". Yet still the name stood.

Same with the term "Doomer". Only the most severe (North, Milne, etc.) really ever believed the whole world would grind to a halt. Most people who fell into the category of "Doomer" didn't believe in such extreme scenarios.

==========

Okay, that said --

People like "Doc, CPR, Pro, and Decker" represent those who opposed Y2k fear.

People who opposed Y2k fear were CORRECT. Get used to it. It's called dealing with facts as they are; i.e. facing reality.

Though many of the former "Y2k Fearful" still seem to want to hold on to the idea that the works are coming apart at the seams, there is NO evidence to support such a belief. NONE. ZERO. The crux dates have come and gone, and things are cranking right along just fine.

Even Ed Yourdon has been seen to say, "Now that Y2k's over...."

Link

And that's the facts, Jack. Deal with it.

-- Chicken Little (panic@isover.now), June 05, 2000.

I was glad for folks like CPR, Doc, etc. It was their info that pulled me out of a fear spiral on Y2K and CPR especially who pointed out that Gary North was a master psychologist who played on people's fears of ambiguous situations such as AIDS, nuclear war, and ultimately Y2K.

My issue regarding Y2K was never about the people that simply prepared. My problem was with those who pushed preparation and so arrogantly pointed out that Y2K would be bad. Even when I was initially worried about Y2K, I knew that I didn't have enough information or the audacity to tell people that they needed to prepare for Y2K, even though at the outset I was scared out of my wits.

Over time, I became sickened by the posts of Squire, BigDog, Sysman, Heller, Old Git, and a good 80% of the posters on TB2000. As time went on, the site became a bullshit machine, and as it turns out, those people mentioned above were actually the purveyors of spin, becoming the very thing that they accused the government and big business of. They were more than ready to accuse the pollies of causing others problems by dissuading preparation, but would never take responsibilities or accountability for their actions.

I still laugh about those who so arrogantly called us DGI's. It turned out to be exactly the opposite.

-- CJS (cjs044@aol.com), June 05, 2000.

They are like the DEA: they're saving us from our own minds.

-- Mr. Meme (meme@meme.com), June 06, 2000.

What CJS said.

Very well put!!!

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), June 06, 2000.

Quality post, CL. Nice job.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), June 06, 2000.

I will give you the rant version of the responses that salute the debunkers...

Saviors or sadists? Neither title really describes their role. I feel the concept of BS Filter best describes the job these guys performed. They cut through the bullshit. Full stop. They debunked, and they did it well.

And agree with the style or not, they did filter out the bullshit. Call it a meme or a load of bull, but doomers who pitched the whole end as we know it were heading pretty far down bullshit lane to come up with some of their scary scenarios of post rollover life.

I gathered a ton of info in mid 1998 after I started realizing that y2k was not just Gateway's new computer model. Search the web back then, for y2k : The phones will not work in Brazil...Japan's banks are doomed...Forget about Russia...my electric company says I owe them from 1900...don't forget about embedded chips. Lots and lots of cheesy doom sites. But the posters at biffy calmly and cooly laid that bs to rest, one stupid claim after another.

Maybe I think that y2k was all bullshit because I wanted it to be bullshit, just like maybe I think the Utah Jazz suck just because I do not like them. Was I an irresponsible Polly just because I really never believed that my kids would die of the common cold because the pit crew from Road Warrior took over the local Rite Aid?

Bottom line - doomers were bored and the brave new world excited them. They found power in the secrets they knew about the future. The inside knowledge they had acquired was the equivalent of the tidbits you read in the gossip section of the newspaper at coffee break. Hey did you hear Madonna shaves her knuckles? Say, did you hear the army has to change chips in all the latrines on every army base around the world by midnight 12/31/99 or the world ends?? Na, na, I knew it first.

So I salute the debunkers who hacked their machetes through the bullshit jungle that doomers tried to call the future.

And by the way, doomers, next time you want to envision a world of survival plan a hike on the AT or a nice cross country bike tour.

QuietMan

-- QuietMan (quietjohn2k@hotmail.com), June 06, 2000.

This really isn't a good poll question.

However, as mostly just an observer I would make the following general comments.

I wish they would take their own advice and move on to other subjects. As they keep pointing out to everyone - Y2K IS OVER.

They should use their abilities to enlighten folks on other subjects where they feel they have some expertise.

They need (like most everyone else on this forum) to practice what they preach and act like adults. Unfortunately a lot of good information got lost in the personal insults and mud-slinging.

It would appear that this particular forum is drying up a good bit. I certainly don't come here looking for info much anymore. At one point in time I used it extensively to get different (Pro and Con, Polly and Doomer?) views from people with different experience levels. The real value of this forum was the good information (pro and con) that was given by the various people. I used that information to make decisions for myself and my family. To all of you who provided those different views - THANKS.

If you want this forum to be worthwhile go back to providing opinion and information and label it as such. Many folks try to pass off their opinion as fact.

FWIW

-- wally wallman (wally_yllaw@hotmail.com), June 06, 2000.

"What is your opinion of folks like Doc, CPR Pro and Decker?"

Is this really your question, or are you asking why they continue to discuss Y2k when it would be YOUR preference to not? Actually, I haven't seen anything by Y2kpro in some time, so yet again he is being blamed for something in which he didn't even partake.

I was a polly myself, but I spread myself between all the Y2k fora, and for that indiscretion took heat from all sides. Some TB2k posters didn't like me because I posted at Debunkers, and some Debunkers didn't like me because I posted at TB2k. Others on both sides didn't give a shit about where I posted, which was pretty much the feeling *I* had about it all.

Do *I* want to engage in this whole "bring it up, hash it out, and ensure it never happens again" phenomenon? No. IMO, the posters at TB2000, Gary North's site, Hyatt's site, reflected such a small percentage of the population that their words were simply blown away by the wind. Then again, I'm not an evangelist. Invar is an evangelist. He has more followers on EZBOARD than Yourdon. Compare Ed's recent thread on leaving to pursue financial rewards by offering what friends give me daily for free to anything that Invar posts. Hell...Invar could charge folks for details on his bowel movements and make more money than Ed could in his internet researching. Do I care about it? No. Do I think these folks should be silenced? No. Do I think there will be folks who follow the Invar types to their death? Yes. Do I care about them? No.

What was your question again?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), June 06, 2000.

Anita,

Sit down and eat a sandwich! Pollster is just trolling, methinks. I have a jar of homemade grape jelly to go with the peanut butter...

-- (kb8um8@yahoo.com), June 06, 2000.

Kb8:

Although I forgot the question asked, I DO notice that there's increased activity of late regarding both sides of the Y2k "THANG", and as a non-evangelist who really doesn't care whether folks decided to hide out in bunkers or store thousands of cans of spam in their basements, I thought the question that I forgot an honest one.

It's time for BOTH sides to 'fess up. The doomers spent years acquiring stuff they may or may not need, attempting to convince friends and enemies alike that disaster was approaching. Debunkers spent years acquiring information to dispute these claims. The folks who never thought ahead to hard times are grateful that someone provoked them into getting some extra batteries, a flashlight, some canned goods, etc. The government spent a lot of money on unnecessary stuff...like THAT'S abnormal! The folks who felt bamboozled by the doomers found enlightenment in the debunkers. Hip-hip-hooray to those who finally woke up, but it's June of 2000. Anyone who still thinks Y2k is responsible for problems is delusional, IMO. How much time would a normal person want to spend debunking the delusional?

Of course the inverse is also true. How much time would a normal person want to spend justifying a mistake? How much time would a normal person want to spend stating that they knew all along this was a mistake?

The doomers must ask themselves if this was the biggest mistake they ever made in their life. If not, they can easily move on. The debunkers must ask themselves if this was the greatest victory they've ever experienced in their life. If not, they can easily move on. If EITHER side invested so much of their lives into Y2k that they can't move on, who the hell am *I* to tell them they SHOULD?

My bet is that folks will fall for the very next con available if they're prone to falling for cons. Do I intend to debunk the next one? Nope. We're ALL responsible for what WE do. If YOU can't learn from your mistakes, I'm not going to stand over you like a bodyguard to protect you from your OWN misgivings. The evangelists will always be with us. It's a personal responsibility to believe or ignore.

I never did mix that peanut-butter and jelly. I like them both equally, but I felt uncomfortable eating them in the same sandwich. [grin]

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), June 06, 2000.

>I never did mix that peanut-butter and jelly

Do try it sometime soon! The textures alone make this sandwich a treat.

As for the doomer vs. polly battle, I've moved on. There continue to be problems, maybe Y2k-related, maybe not, but I'm paranoid enough to keep an eye on the news, when I'm not cutting the lawn, of course. 8-)

-- (kb8um8@yahoo.com), June 06, 2000.

Folks:

Have you tried the best. Peanut butter sandwich with thin slices of avacodo. Picked this up in N.Ca. Very good. Even better with a few very thin slices of Vidalia onion.

Gregor

-- Gregor (Gregor10001@yahoo.com), June 06, 2000.

I'll try one, Gregor. Thanks.

-- (kb8um8@yahoo.com), June 06, 2000.

Peanut Butter and Banana....*THAT* is the ultimate combo!

-- MonkeyBoy (swinging@the.junglevine), June 07, 2000.