A Christian's Apology - Day 2

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TB2K spinoff uncensored : One Thread

Do you think you'll hear an apology for the *killing of Jesus* in your lifetime?

Frank, I'm not looking for one.

There has been far to much finger pointing going on. It is time for both Jew & Gentile to heal. Jesus NEVER called anyone a sinner. He did however call the religious leaders of the day vipers. Jesus showed us the way to live through love and kindness towards each other. Hatred/vengance et. al does nothing but tear open wounds already tender from years of strife.

-- I believe in Him (Jesus is King@Kingdom.come), May 23, 2000

Answers

aqua

I don't think you need to apologize for anyone. I consider myself a Christian, and I have never wronged any

Neither did Moses. But while on Mt. Sinai with God, Moses interceeded on the people of Israel's behalf. The people of Israel started doing wicked things while Moses was with God and he repented for them. Moses did it and Solomon did it to name a few.

In 2 Chronicles 7:14 God says, if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

Governmental leaders have repented of the sin of their nation for their people.

Why not Christians doing it for for the sins of all that call themselves Christians?

-- I believe in Him (Jesus is King@Kingdom.come), May 23, 2000.


gilda

although some of their ritess were taken, and paraded out as Christian originals.

Yes they were/are. People, whether Christian, Jew, Hindu, Muslim, agnostic, atheistic all have one thing in common. They are or can be very cruel to each other. True believers of Christ know and understand this. They are (should be) more quick to forgive because their savior forgave/forgives all things through His shed blood. If our savior can forgive us, who are we not to forgive others?

Jesus and Peter had a little discussion about this in Matthew 18:21-22 21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" 22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

Christians need to 'turn the other cheek' a little more often. We sometimes are our own worst enemies.

-- I believe in Him (Jesus is King@Kingdom.come), May 23, 2000.


ISN,T, the fact that JESUS said'we have to keep forgiving=proof that christians blow-it=quite often?wouldn,t this prove,no one can live by ''the letter of the law''isn,t the true-gospel about GRACE?

i know i sure need grace=daily--i,m alway,s blowing it,one way or another.JESUS last command was'love one another'as i have loved you' we are ALL so spiritually immature-compared to JESUS. *love covers a multitude of sins*

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), May 23, 2000.


Subject: A Christian's Apology - Day 2

Do you think you'll hear an apology for the *killing of Jesus* in your lifetime? ---------------------------------------------------------------

Hmmm, I thought it was the Romans who killed Christ?? Did someone change history again to support their racist views?? What a shock!!

-- Rob (celtic64@inficad.com), May 23, 2000.


I believe in Him, I don't think Jesus is a savior. He was a good man in his time. Sorry, as you know, I don't buy the Christian religion--too brutal and mean.

Don't forget Hypathia, murdered by an irate Christian lynch mob about 400.

Rob, do you mean to tell me you haven't heard Jews referred to as "Jesus killers."

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), May 23, 2000.



GILDA, if i call myself a big-mac--are i really one??? lotsa satans kids use the tag christian.you need to check the fruit. like JESUS said too.remember the parable of'the wheat & the tares'? JESUS said they.ll grow up to-gether[true & falsees]HE SAID at the end of time he.ll sort em out. no reason to be mad at GOD. LET HIM BE THE JUDGE--JUST CHILL IN HIS LOVE.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), May 23, 2000.

I Believe,

My big gripe was when I saw the Pope on T.V. at the wailing wall, the station had some commentator on and instead of saying "wow, it's great he's taking this step at reconciliation", the commentator was complaining how the Pope wasn't going nearly far enough!

I'd just like to see some parity before the complaints start.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 23, 2000.


the popes religeous----jesus ain,t. figure it out. catholisicm teaches WORKS.---anti gospel message. the TRUE gospel say,s''it is finished'' catholicism---say,s you better do,this & that. are you saved,by the finished WORK of christ? or manmade doctrine???? JESUS said''the truth will set you free'' are catholics 'truly free[grace only] or are there rules & regs. martin-luther was a cath.-priest who finally=GOT IT. the church at rome .put a contract out on him. ''call no man father-except your father in heaven'' sorry if the TRUTH hurts.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), May 23, 2000.

Al,

Was Jesus like the foolish man who built his house in the sand, or the wise man who built on rock? Sorry if "the truth hurts", but the keys for binding and loosing were given, and they weren't given to protestants. Judging by your other beliefs, wouldn't you rather be on the side of the people with the authority to use them?

A tad flippantly I'm afraid,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 23, 2000.


I would like all of you girls to apoligize to me for those of your ilk who laughed and spurned my advances. It didn't help to wake up with a hangover either. But you don't have to for that.

-- KoFE (your@town.USA), May 23, 2000.


FRANK, is salvation of the LORD or the church?? are you saved by grace or association? was mary a sinner, like all humans-or was she EQUAL to messiah=yeshua. did mary create jesus--or did jesus create mary? and why does rome keep jesus on a cross--he is risen. ARE YOU SAVED BY GRACE & GRACE ALONE---OR THE CHURCH??????

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), May 23, 2000.

Sorry Frank, I have to disagree with as well. As much as I respect the the Catholic church, it is a distortion of scripture to try to say that that because of Jesus' comments to Peter about the keys of the Kingdom, that the institution called the Roman Catholic Church now has the keys to the kingdom. The greatest damage ever done to the Christian church was when Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the empire and imposed Roman authority structures on the "church."

-- JoseMiami (caris@prodigy.net), May 23, 2000.

the great whore'in revelations'drunk with the blood of the saint,s. how many has the roman-church-killed,who dared to say> GRACE & GRACE ALONE.---THEY HAVE ''ANOTHER-GOSPEL''my wife was a practicing catholic & some of the horror stories are sad.gee,could the 7 horns on the beast in revalations--be the 7 hill,s in ROME. jesus is risen---not on a cross.RELIGION=YUK.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), May 24, 2000.

Jose,

This is a topic of interest to me, so I'd really like to hear other opinions on it. You said,

it is a distortion of scripture to try to say that that because of Jesus' comments to Peter about the keys of the Kingdom, that the institution called the Roman Catholic Church now has the keys to the kingdom.

Please reread Matthew 16: 13-20. If Christ gave the keys to the kingdom to Peter, do you believe he meant that ONLY Peter was to have this authority, that it was to die with him, or do you think that Peter's office was to carry on after his death? After all, many of Christ's followers had *experienced* Christ in their lifetimes. If they needed a head of their church to have this authority, wouldn't later followers need it even more so? Who do you believe this authority got passed down to if not the head of his church?

In what way is this a distortion of scripture?

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 24, 2000.


Hi Frank

I guess I'll step into the lions den on this one.

do you believe he meant that ONLY Peter was to have this authority, that it was to die with him

No, it was not meant to die with him. Christ was forming His church before ascending to Heaven. His church was formed with no denominations or walls. His church are His people that follow Him and believe and practice what His teachings say; love & kindness mainly.

The trap some fall into is in subscribing to religion rather than a faith. The true church has no denominations (religion) but holds one faith. Go to any third world country. Where you find followers of Jesus, for the most part, you will not find the multiple denominational hangups we here in the USA deal with. They worship Jesus and follow His teachings in the bible. No more, no less.

I now have a few questions for you Frank.

Question: "In what or in whom will you trust for your eternal destiny?" Is it man and his teachings or Jesus and His word? Put more simply, do you choose religion(mans teachings) or faith (Jesus' written word)?

-- I believe in Him (Jesus is King@Kingdom.come), May 24, 2000.



A couple of revealing looks at how the Roman system fits into the overall scheme of things, in light of history and Bible prophecy:

"The Beast, the Dragon, and the Woman"

"The Scarlet Woman"

-- Chicken Little (panic@isover.now), May 24, 2000.

I Believe,

Sorry it took me awhile to get back, these next few days are busy for me. :-(

First, I still don't know if you believe that this authority was given to Peter as an individual, or not. If so, I'd believe it was to be passed down TO an individual, if not (as in passing it down to EVERYONE), well, I don't think that jives with scripture.

Also, you said,

His church was formed with no denominations or walls. His church are His people that follow Him and believe and practice what His teachings say; love & kindness mainly.

Exactly. There was only ONE Christianity, the Catholic church. There is no justification for offshoots in the Bible that I see.

Your question for me was,

Question: "In what or in whom will you trust for your eternal destiny?" Is it man and his teachings or Jesus and His word? Put more simply, do you choose religion(mans teachings) or faith (Jesus' written word)?

Actually, I think this is more problematic for you than me. I put my trust in Jesus and his word. I know that the words *in the Bible* are true because the Catholic church has the authority (handed down through Peter) to decree which Biblical books are inspired (and true) and which aren't.

To explain a bit, the current New Testament (that we both ((I assume!)) would say is the inspired word of God) was decided upon by Pope Innocent I in 405 A.D. Some previously thought inspired books were left out, and others NOT previously felt inspired were included (I can get you a partial list if you'd find it interesting). Anyway, how can YOU say that the Bible is the inspired word of God without recognizing the authority of the person who decided what books were inspired and which weren't?

I don't know if I'm expressing myself clearly, and if not please say so! As I said, for me this is (obviously) an interesting topic.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 25, 2000.


An agnostic lurker, I have always enjoyed these theads when they don't deteriorate. It would have been very interesting to me to see RC Robert racambab Coombs participate in a thread like this.

-- (Just another@with two cents.too), May 25, 2000.

Evidently nobody read the works I posted links to, above. If they had, there would certainly be much talk about it.

Guess I'll just have to wait for the next thread that deals with Catholicism.

Let me say this: there are many good people associated with Catholicism who will most certainly be in Heaven (Mother Teresa comes to mind).

But Catholicism itself is a bastard, polluted system; a mixture of old pagan religion with Christianity. Bible prophecy condemns the Papacy in the strongest terms; there is no question whatsoever. More later.

-- Chicken Little (panic@isover.now), May 26, 2000.


Chicken,

I *tried* to, clicked on both links when you first posted them, but after reading a bit of each didn't see where they were going. What point were you wanting to make with them?

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 26, 2000.


Chicken,

Oops, I saw the "Al" thread & so see the point, you believe that the RC church is the Beast somehow.

While I suppose I could refute ALL of the paper's assertions, one should be sufficient -- if one prophecy is not fulfilled then it's WRONG. Therefore, the article said,

First of all, the papacy did arise in western Europe, at the very heart of the territory of the pagan Roman Empire - in Rome itself. Second, it did come up after 476 A.D. It was in the year 538 A.D. that a decree of Emperor Justinian went into effect which assigned absolute preeminence to the Church of Rome. These are facts of history that can be verified by any authoritative historical source.

The Catholic church wasn't FOUNDED after 476 A.D., It traces the popes back to Peter. A list of popes pre-476 shows:

St. Peter (32-67) 2.St. Linus (67-76) 3.St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88) 4.St. Clement I (88-97) 5.St. Evaristus (97-105) 6.St. Alexander I (105-115) 7.St. Sixtus I (115-125) -- also called Xystus I 8.St. Telesphorus (125-136) 9.St. Hyginus (136-140) 10.St. Pius I (140-155) 11.St. Anicetus (155-166) 12.St. Soter (166-175) 13.St. Eleutherius (175-189) 14.St. Victor I (189-199) 15.St. Zephyrinus (199-217) 16.St. Callistus I (217-22) 17.St. Urban I (222-30) 18.St. Pontain (230-35) 19.St. Anterus (235-36) 20.St. Fabian (236-50) 21.St. Cornelius (251-53) 22.St. Lucius I (253-54) 23.St. Stephen I (254-257) 24.St. Sixtus II (257-258) 25.St. Dionysius (260-268) 26.St. Felix I (269-274) 27.St. Eutychian (275-283) 28.St. Caius (283-296) -- also called Gaius 29.St. Marcellinus (296-304) 30.St. Marcellus I (308-309) 31.St. Eusebius (309 or 310) 32.St. Miltiades (311-14) 33.St. Sylvester I (314-35) 34.St. Marcus (336) 35.St. Julius I (337-52) 36.Liberius (352-66) 37.St. Damasus I (366-83) 38.St. Siricius (384-99) 39.St. Anastasius I (399-401) 40.St. Innocent I (401-17) 41.St. Zosimus (417-18) 42.St. Boniface I (418-22) 43.St. Celestine I (422-32) 44.St. Sixtus III (432-40) 45.St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61) 46.St. Hilarius (461-68) 47.St. Simplicius (468-83)

If you want to say that the RC church was founded AFTER 476, who were these people the head of?

Go back to the drawing board,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 26, 2000.


Chicken,

So did you decide to take the week off or what? I'll try reposting to keep the thread alive, but won't *keep* doing so as it'll irritate the others sooner or later.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 30, 2000.


- I'll try reposting to keep the thread alive, but won't *keep* doing so as it'll irritate the others sooner or later.

Then shut the (expletive deleted) up already!

-- Watching (Liars@TheGate.com), June 03, 2000.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ