I've just been reading Biohazard by Ken Alibek. He was a high-ranking official in the Soviet Union's biological warfare program.

It's real scary. The Soviets have perfected viable, dispersable, antibiotic resistant strains of anthrax, smallpox, tularemia, Marburg, Ebola, Q-Fever, et.al. Only God knows if any of this has gotten out to Saddam and people like him. Does America even have a biowar program anymore?

A nuclear response to a biological attack would seem quite justified in view of the fact that there is no stopping these bugs once they get out, and most are highly contagious.

Something new for doomers to worry about. Frankly, if I lived in a large metropolitan area that might be a biowar target, I'd definitely give some thought to how to best protect myself and my family.

Since these "superbugs" are resistant to most known antibiotics, I suspect that dosing onself with large amounts of colloidal silver might be the only possible defense against them.

Not for the faint-hearted.

-- Flash (flash@flash.hq), May 19, 2000

Answers

Did it ever occured to you that the best way of teterrace (sp) is to install fear in your enemy?

Who paid that guy to "" reveal the secrets??

Just wondering.......

-- RickJohn (Rickjohn1@yahoo.com), May 19, 2000.

Constant fear is a requirement for constant control over the 'subjects'. This is clearly shown in Orwell's '1984'.

On the other hand...there really ARE real enemies out there and if their capabilities equal or exceed ours...???

-- (Cyber@Squat.com), May 19, 2000.

Don't you people know that our own government is spraying chemicals on us to give us all the flu and kill all of us so that they and their rich commie friends can come and play in our national parks? ;-)

-- (renos@thug.com), May 19, 2000.

Making your own colloidal silver is cheap and easy. Once you either buy or build a simple generator from a schematic found on the Net and get a small quantity of relatively pure silver wire (or other pure source) it costs nothing more than the distilled water to make.

Silver has been used as an effective antibacterial for centuries. The only reason it isn't in wide use today is because of the FDA and the big pharmaceutical companies. I think it's cheap insurance.

-- Flash (flash@flash.hq), May 19, 2000.

For more information on the FDAs position on colloidal silver, check here and here.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), May 19, 2000.

hmm,

Thanks for the scoop. The FDA is against just about anything that works as good or better than products of the big pharmaceutical companies. Just look at all the possible side effects listed for even relatively safe drugs. And, the FDA routinely approves drugs that later turn out to be unsafe.

Colloidal silver and silver salts are different. As far as I can tell, known problems are all involving silver salts, not pure CS. I've been watching a CS forum for a while and am planning to try it on myself. If bad things happen, I'll sure report them. The only way to make sure that you have pure CS is to make it yourself with as pure a silver source as possible and distilled water.

It sure beats dying of Anthrax or one of the other biowar bugs, though. I suspect that you would have to drink a lot of it for a week or more, and start as soon as you know that you have been exposed. By the time symptoms appear, it is often too late because even if you kill the bug, the toxins get you.

The descriptions in Biohazard of people dying of Marburg and Ebola are especially horrible, but dying from any of the bugs is pretty awful.

-- Flash (flash@flash.hq), May 19, 2000.

I think the issue the FDA has with it is that there haven't been any scientific studies that prove that CS cures anthrax, ebola, or anything else for that matter. People swear by all sorts of interesting remedies for everything from the common cold to a deadly disease. That doesn't necessarily mean they work, though.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), May 19, 2000.

Flash:

Since most of the diseases that you mentioned have a viral origin, you are correct. You can't use antibiotics or even antimicrobials to treat virus infections. That is just they way it is. Not anything that anyone has done. Silver; can you say a "Picture of Flash Gray".

I be gone.

Best wishes,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), May 19, 2000.

Hmmmm,

For some strange reason no pharmaceutical company has ponied up the hundred million or so that would be needed for comprehensive data gathering re colloidal silver vs. disease syndromes. Hmmmm, hmmmm indeed!

-- Debbie (dbspence@usa.net), May 19, 2000.

Z,

It's true antibiotics don't work against viruses, BUT, they DO work for bacterial superinfections. What I'm trying to say is that if you have a bad viral infection, it may give a bacterial strain a foothold to infect you as well. An antibiotic WOULD treat the bacteria, letting your body concentrate on the virus.

So I don't think it's ALWAYS a no-no to give antibiotics to someone with a presumed virus (for example someone with really bad emphysema who comes down with a "viral" pneumonia). But in general for the kid with a runny nose you don't need them.

On colloidal silver, have any studies been done IN VIVO showing that it works for anything?

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 19, 2000.

Frank:

Yo; but that wasn't the point of discussion.

On colloidal silver, have any studies been done IN VIVO showing that it works for anything?

Not that I am aware of. This is something sold over the web. I know of no reliable studies on the subject. I only know of reliable reports of the damage it can cause in certain cases. Maybe someone else knows of studies in the peer reviewed literature.

I have finished packing and will be gone. See you all in a week or so.

Best wishes,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), May 19, 2000.

Z -- Anthrax, Tularemia, and Plague are all bacterial. Smallpox and the rest are viral, I believe. God only knows what else the Russkies, Cinese, Iraquis, etc. have dreamed up. My point is that they apparently have developed antibiotic resistant strains of those first three, so presumably nothing we have now will kill them. Regarding "Gray", I presume you are referring to Argyria. To the best of my knowledge this results from taking large doses of silver salts, not colloidal silver. That's why it is so important to use distilled water and as pure a silver source as possible.

Frank, I believe that you are correct on the matter of bacterial "superinfection" piggy-backing on top of an initial viral reaction. I used to have a lot of sinus infections that started out as colds but ended up hanging on after the virus was defeated. Antibiotics did help me to get over the illness quicker.

My point with the colloidal silver is not to advocate that everyone get excited about it, but rather to think about it as a possible last-ditch remedy if exposed to a bio-warfare bug. If we ever do have a biowar attack, especially if more than one occurs simultaneously, there likely won't be enough antibiotcs for everyone even if they do work. And if a viral agent is used, antibiotics won't help anyway. Also, there will be a time delay between the time of discovery and the time individuals get antibiotics from the authorities (if they are available) so maybe it's not a bad idea to think about some other possible solutions, especially if they aren't very expensive or complex.

Debbie, you hit the nail on the head. No one will do any research on CS because there's no money in it, and big money to be made if it works but is suppressed in favor of expensive new drugs. I don't know how well it works, but am going to do some experimenting on myself. If I start turning gray, I'll let you know. Apparently there are a lot of people using it without any observable ill effects. The kind that you make at home is likely purer and more consistant than the stuff you get in the health food store.

-- Fash (flash@flash.hq), May 19, 2000.

Fash {I think that you mean Flash}:

Your response is that you were not accurate in your original post. You are admitting that no one has developed an antibiotic resistant strain of Ebola [silly idea]. Iraq: One of my students was the advisor to Dr. Death. They would be lucky to have the technology to introduce rif resistance into K12.

So what are you saying. People should produce their own treatments for a non-threat. Boy, I would like to see the literature you are reading.

On the old board, one person, emailed me a lot of information on CS. It was all junk science. If you have better information, I would love to see it.

Now, I have to go. Really.

Best wishes,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), May 19, 2000.

Fash:

Since you are evidently a medical expert; what is the difference between an antibiotic and and antimicrobial. It is asked on every PhD qualifier. The definition has been around for awhile. You should know it.

Everyone has been avoiding antimicrobial.

Best wishes,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), May 19, 2000.

Flash,

For me, if there ever was a germ warfare attack, I'd forget about the colloidal silver. I doubt seriously it would work on anything. I'd concentrate on:

Distance: Keep as far as possible from any likely source of attack or contamination,

Time: Decrease exposure time as much as possible,

Shielding: put whatever barrier may be effective between you and the agent,

Contact: Decrease contact with other people as much as possible until the route of spread of the agent is known,

Hygeine: Wash your hands, filter what you breath as best you can, cook your food thoroughly, etc.

None of these has a "down side" such as poisoning yourself, and none will give you a false sense of security.

Hope it helps, other ideas or corrections to the above very welcome,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 20, 2000.

Z,

You seem unusually testy lately. I'm actually a fan of yours and am surprised by some of the barbs in your recent posts directed at me. I have never claimed to be a medical expert, and have indicated that I am not a Phd in a recent response to one of your challenges. My interest is in sharing information and knowledge, and learning through discourse. I am encouraged to hear that your friend thinks that Iraq is inept in the bio weapons area. Unfortunately, it is likely that Russia is quite advanced. Have you read Dr, Alibek's book?

Our government seems quite concerned about the possibility of bio-warfare attack. This is what prompted me to read Biohazard. I am not trying to open a new line of doomer thinking, but rather to stimulate awareness of the possible danger and explore common sense solutions that us ordinary people might take. It seems that CS might hold some promise, at least as a last ditch treatment.

Frank,

Thanks for the suggestions. A couple of additional items that came to mind are:

a. Get some dust masks from the drugstore and put a couple in your car in case something should happen while you are at work.

b. Have plenty of duct tape at home to seal off as much of the inside of your house as possible in the event of an attack.

c. Have some gauze or other filtering material to use on some cracks because you need some incoming air to the house.

d. Plan on making one room, most likely the master bedroom, a "safe room" within the "safe house". You will need access to a shower and toilet and most master bedrooms in modern houses seem to have this(hopefully).

e. Get youself one of the new HEPA vacuum cleaners which you can use to create a crude positive-air-pressure condition in the safe room by sticking the outflow under the door using the crevice tool.

Any other ideas will be graciously accepted.

-- Flash (flash@flash.hq), May 20, 2000.

Flash,

The FEMA website has some excellent resources. We used to see the 'Shelter in Place' kit list posted on da 'bomb in the halcyon days. I think it's in the HAZMAT section.

Most folks would be suprised to see how close they are to risks - from industrial snafus & the after-effects from natural disasters - even without crossing the line into the ol' terror territory.

-- flora (***@__._), May 20, 2000.

Flora,

Thanks, I'll check it out.

I guess that the government's big "Topoff" biowar exercise that started today gives some indication of how seriously they view the threat.

-- Flash (flash@flash.hq), May 20, 2000.