SEE CHRIST'ON THE CROSS-BUYING fallen mankind back,from satans dominion.when adam fell,we we,re all in him. the bible call,s JESUS the 2nd adam. h =JESUS completed'what adam FORFIETED. satan is an illegal-squater. he[satan] fooled adam,but he couldn,t fool JESUS. ***GET IN CHRIST-AND-LIVE FOREVER***

-- al-d (dogs@zianet.com), May 16, 2000

Answers

How?

-- (nemesis@awol.com), May 16, 2000.

By faith in the principle of love.

-- (how@it.works), May 16, 2000.

dear nemesis,if you believe in your heart'&confess with your mouth the BIBLE promises'you WILL be saved. true christianity is a confession--not a religion. the BIBBLE also say,s''buy the words of a man,s mouth,he is justified or condemned.-it,s all bout simply believing GODS WORD. NOT PERFORMANCE.

-- al-d (dogs@zianet.com), May 16, 2000.

You've adequately described part of my reasoning for not accepting JC, al-d. The worst can repent on their deathbeds & go to the good place. Doesn't make sense to me. I'm a good person. Why should I burn my tootsies in the fires of hell?

Best,

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), May 16, 2000.

a1-d,

Thanks for your words. As I marinate in time, as I increase in grayness and chromedome-ness, I find I am much more seriously interested in the Jesus stuff. And yes, I believe that prayers of confession-of-faith are more important than "works" altho I believe that works are pretty important too. Thing is, I'm not sure my prayers are getting thru. It's so hard to tell.

Sorry, but I can't resist this---do like bibble gum. (The Lord loveth a cheerful laugher).

-- (nemesis@awol.com), May 16, 2000.

Nemesis,

You are on the right track. The lord says in The Bible that "your works are as filthy rags",meaning works won't get one salvation. Also funny thing to the other poster, Bingo I if one asks the lord for repentence and accepts Jesus he will go to paradise.This includes mass murderers et al. The whole key to eternal salvation and life with God is repent for sin and accept god's ultimate gift Jesus and eternal life. We tend to use the carnal mind to out-reason the simplicity of God's GIFT.

-- rowd morgan (morgan77@home.com), May 16, 2000.

of course there is last minute repentance,but that,s a big-gamble. the bible say,s ''now is the day of salvation'' nemesis,your a-ok. GOD loves you,he proved it,on the cross. yes good works will,follow true salvation,but are not what saves,it,s simple=TRUST in the words of JESUS. HE said,he that has the son,has[present-tense] the life[etrnal life] HE also 'said' I AM THE RESURECTION & THE LIFE' [see what i mean about=WORDS] just agree with HIM.

-- al-d (dogs@zianet.com), May 16, 2000.

I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT, MY SPELLING ,you got me bro. [chuckle]hey that,s a cool analogy, chew the word WOW.BUT MAKE SURE YOU DIGEST IT.

-- al-d (dogs@zianet.com), May 16, 2000.

But if we are not supposed to use our God-given(?) thought processes in deciding this question, why are we able to think at all? And why should I believe the Christian Bible over all other religious texts? The Bhagavad-Gita? The Koran? The Talmud?

Do you see where I'm coming from?

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), May 16, 2000.

RIGHT-ON ROWD, it,s so simple ,many miss it. just believe FATHER-GOD, who was IN christ,reconciling the world,to himself.

-- al-d (dogs@zianet.com), May 16, 2000.

hi,bingo-you said the others are religions.TRUE CHRISTianity is relationship. religion say,s DO, JESUS say,s done.

religion say,s obey rules,JESUS say,s 'come unto me.& i will give you rest. JESUS gives grace & mercy. REST IN HIS UN-CONDITIONAL-LOVE. HE does the changing in us,not us-walk in love & be free. GOD has a hobby,he collects failures.

-- al-d (dogs@zianet.com), May 16, 2000.

But if JC says "done", then why do I have to do (say) anything? Thank you for your patience al-d. Perhaps I'm asking more than you can address. No harm there.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), May 16, 2000.

James 2:14-2:26 says you must have works to be saved; that faith without works is a dead faith.

How does this figure in?

-- eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), May 16, 2000.

HI BINGO,well confession[bible way] is you get what you say. if your married,do you deny it? next ?? yes if we,re saved,we will do the works of GOD.but not in order to be saved.simply out of a HEART of thansgiving. honestly-folks being -saved is fun. it,s NOT about,performing,it,s about enJOYing,the JOY of the LORD is our strength.*WHAT A SAVIOUR* he said,he,ll never leave us,nor forsake us. even on our worst day,s.hang-out with JESUS ,he,s so wonderful.he looks beyond our shortcomings,and sees, our potential.

-- al-d (dogs@zianet.com), May 16, 2000.

Eve you might find guidance here:

"For it it by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works , so that no one can boast" Ephesians 2:8,9

"Everyone who calls on the name of the lord will be saved" Romans 10:13

"that if you confess with your mouth,'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9

Jesus is speaking here " but everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash." Matthew 7:26,27

-- (in@the.bible), May 16, 2000.

Eve:

Right on girlfriend, you got it.......

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), May 16, 2000.

EVE,hears the works of god=faith,hope,charity.

-- al-d (dogs@zianet.com), May 16, 2000.

My dear Bingo1,

Magic does not have to be sensible or rational. It simply is, to believers. There is no why or wherefore. God plays dice. Al-d rejoices. It is a mystery beyond our power to plumb. Ain't it nice to be redeemed?

To paraphrase our matchless Al-d... Jesus's blood plus my sin equals HALLELUJAH! I am saved! (Said fervently:) THANK you, JESUS! Amen, brother! Blessed be the LAMB OF GOD!

[Exit stage left, chased by bears.]

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), May 16, 2000.

in the bible,

The quotes you posted are at odds with the passage from James. How would you reconcile your quotes with the following ones from James?

James 2:14 "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"

James 2:17 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

James 2:20 "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

James 2:24 "...by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works id dead also." (KJV)

-- eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), May 17, 2000.

eve

The point being made here is that if you have faith,then works will follow. If no works, you had no faith.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

-- I believe in Him (Jesus is King@Kingdom.come), May 17, 2000.

I believe in him,

So, in other words, if your faith is real, good works will come automatically? You don't have to think?

Also, if it's by grace, not faith -- does that mean an athiest has the same chance of being saved as does a Christian?

-- eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), May 17, 2000.

So, in other words, if your faith is real, good works will come automatically? Exactly. Don't expect everything to change all at once. Through your daily faith walk in the word of God, you WILL see dramatic positive changes in your life over time. People will notice the positive change, believe me.

Also, if it's by grace, not faith Not correct. Here is the passage again: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith...

-- I believe in Him (Jesus is King@Kingdom.come), May 17, 2000.

I believe in him,

Ok, so you will eventually do good works automatically. Except at first you will have to think and decide whether they're moral. Then, later, morality will have become "programmed," and there will be no need for thinking anymore.

But if good works means being moral, morality implies "ought," and there's no need for "ought" anymore because everything's automatic, then are the "good works" you'd be doing... "amoral?"

Regarding grace: If you have to have not only faith, but a particular faith first -- you know, you have to do something -- then the grace is not free -- it's conditional. Agree?

By the way please don't take offense at any of this. I'm here to learn as well as share, so to make progress here I have to ask these questions.

-- eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), May 17, 2000.

Except at first you will have to think and decide whether they're moral.

Except at first you will have to accept the act that Christ performed for your sin. Which was His death on the cross for our sin. He has provided us the vehicle to receive His free gift which is eternal life. All we need do is accept it by FAITH.

have become "programmed," and there will be no need for thinking anymore. You never lose free will. There is no little hole at the base of my skull. Jesus said in John 8:32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

"good works" you'd be doing... "amoral?" The Pharisees thought their moral behavior would earn them a 'ticket' into Heaven but Jesus straightened them out. So yes, morality without faith would be 'amoral'.

but a particular faith first A faith believing that Jesus died for your sin.

it's conditional. Agree? Grace IS conditional, the gift of eternal life with Him is free! You MUST accept Jesus Christ as your savior before God's grace is given to you.

-- I believe in Him (Jesus is King@Kingdom.come), May 17, 2000.

I believe in him,

You had indicated, in essence, that some time after you accept Christ on faith, you good works will come automatically. Which means: you won't have to think any longer. Which means: there will be no need for free will. But later you said we have free will. Could you reconcile this? For example, when a long-time believer (i.e., long enough so that he/she no longer has to think to do a good work) arrives at a situation that calls for a good work, does he/she have to think (implying free will) or not (deterministic)?

And if grace is conditional on acceptance of Christ, and eternal life is conditional upon grace having bestowed, then eternal life is conditional as well -- because there's a condition. It's an extra step away now, but it's still a condition: You don't get eternal life unless you ...accept Christ.

it's conditional. Agree? Grace IS conditional, the gift of eternal life with Him is free! You MUST accept Jesus Christ as your savior before God's grace is given to you.

-- I believe in Him (Jesus is King@Kingdom.come), May 17, 2000.

-- eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), May 17, 2000.

Oops...I left the bottom part of your last post tacked on to mine...

-- eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), May 17, 2000.

Which means: you won't have to think any longer. Having good works automatically doesn't mean you are never tempted by things that are sinful. Example: With Christs love within me, I feel love for others. That doesn't mean it's always there. When someone verbally steps all over me, the initial reaction of my flesh if you will, isn't always to 'turn the other cheek'. I must die to my flesh (not always successful) daily. That would mean, forcing my flesh with help of the Holy Spirit, into submission.

and eternal life is conditional upon grace No, I said: Grace IS conditional, the gift of eternal life with Him is free!

Everyone will have eternal life. It's just a question as to where/who you choose to spend it(with).

-- I believe in Him (Jesus is King@Kingdom.come), May 17, 2000.