3 men on the cross,1 is GOD=JESUS. 1 MAN mocks ,the other ask,s for help.so goes humanity.P.S. both we,re thieves[sinners]why did 1 make paradise'and 1 go to hell>answer=ATTITUDE. 1 HUMBLE 1 PROUD. PRIDE GOES BEFORE THE FALL.ACKNOWLEDGE JESUS & GO TO PARADISE. I MIGHT CAN,T SPELL-BUT I AIN,T GOIN TO HELL.

-- al-d (dogs@zianet.com), May 13, 2000

Answers

al-d,

Thanks for bringing this up. I was wondering about this a couple of days ago. Looking at the Gospels, Matthew and Mark mention the theives, John doesn't, and Luke describes the narrative where to the repentent man Jesus says, "Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise".

But NOWHERE does he say that the other man will GO TO HELL. The criminal was after all, tacked to a cross -- maybe his first reactions were just *fear of dying*, and not a conscious (willful) denial of Jesus.

Maybe he would go to Hell for denying the Lord, but I don't really know if that was the case here. (And after all, it's not my call to make!) All I'm sure of is that the repentant man went to Paradise.

Thoughts?

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 13, 2000.

OK, Al, answer this for me. One of the criminals repented so Jesus sais "This day you shall be with me in Paradise. Jesus, on the other hand, cried out "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me" therefore commiting the sin of despair of God's love. Did Jesus go to Heaven?

-- Jim Cooke (JJCooke@yahoo.com), May 13, 2000.

Jim,

You are mistaken in saying Jesus sinned while on the cross. When he said in [Mat 27:46] "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

It is at that moment Jesus became sin for you and me. The sin of the world (past, present,and future) was placed upon the Lord Jesus Christ. In that awful moment the sin of the world was paid for by the blood of the Lord Jesus. God cannot look upon sin. Jesus, for the first time in eterenity, was seperated from God the father.

As for the question of Jesus going to Heaven, in [Matt 12:40] "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Jesus went to hell, took the keys from Satan, and removed the old testament saints in paradise.

You see, the blood of bulls and goats could only cover but never remove sin in the old testament. Old testament saints went to paradise, new testament saints are in the presence of the Lord upon death.

After 3 days the Lord Jesus Christ arose. I am trusting in his blood for my salvation.

The question I pose to you is simple. If the Bible is right and you are wrong, you spend eternity in a flaming fire for rejecting Jesus Christ. Will you trust Jesus Christ as your saviour?

Here is another challenge. You are obviously intelligent have thought out this issue to some degree. Read the book of John one or 2 chapters a day. Before opening your Bible, get on your knees and pray and ask God to show you if this is indeed the truth or not. Get a King James Bible, the others are garbage.

All it takes is a small amount of time. Approach the matter with a sincere heart, not head.

I respectfully submit this and will pray for you.

Jesus descended into hell, took the keys of hell and death ([Rev 1:18] "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.")

-- trafficjam (road@construction.ahead), May 13, 2000.

"Get a King James Bible, the others are garbage."

Interesting.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), May 13, 2000.

Anita.

It is interesting. I never knew there was a difference until I laid a NIV and a King James side by side. There are thousands of changes made in newer versions, which all come from Westcott and Hort's greek new testament. Just a couple of verses for your perusal.

[Isa 14:12] KJV "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

[Isa 14:12] NIV "How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!"

Looks similar but in Rev. 22:16 Jesus Christ said [Rev 22:16] "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

Notice that the NIV has removed the name Lucifer and called Jesus a fallen angel by using the words morning star. By the way, they also use that term in Revelation 22:16, thereby conflicting their own translation.

Here's another. Who killed Goliath? David right? Not in the NIV.

[2 Sam 21:19] NIV "In another battle with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver's rod."

Either Goliath rose from the dead to be slain by David and Elhanan, or David was a liar, or the NIV is a piece of garbage.

We are redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ.

[Col 1:14] KJV "In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:"

[Col 1:14] NIV "in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins."

They removed the blood. The name God, Lord, Jesus, or Christ is removed over 200 times in the New Testament alone in all the new versions.

There are hundreds of verses altered that drastically change doctrine.

It is a fascinating study. The more I read and prayed about which Bible to use, the angrier I became at the new versions.

Please research the issue in depth. It is a worthwhile study.

The

-- trafficjam (road@construction.ahead), May 13, 2000.

Tjam stated, "The question I pose to you is simple. If the Bible is right and you are wrong, you spend eternity in a flaming fire for rejecting Jesus Christ. Will you trust Jesus Christ as your saviour?"

Bring on the flaming fire. I will not be bullied when it comes to spiritual matters. That is a threat the likes of which I haven't heard since Vito told me I would give him my lunch money or he'd make sure I didn't live to eat dinner.

Bring on the flaming fire. If God is about threats, if God is about exclusion, if God is about torture - keep the sonofabitch.

I experience what I believe to be God as Bliss, Love, Peace. If it turns out this is Satan tricking me, then so be it - Satan wins. Hail Satan!

Thank you for laying it out so neatly, Tjam.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), May 13, 2000.

TJ:

It is interesting. I never knew there was a difference until I laid a NIV and a King James side by side. There are thousands of changes made in newer versions, which all come from Westcott and Hort's greek new testament.

You are correct. The newer translations correct most [but not all] of the errors in the KJV.

Best wishes,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), May 13, 2000.

And thank you, Tjam, for your class in expressing your views on this thread. I'll read & consider any post written with such dignity. Would that I could emulate such conduct. I do my best.

Regards,

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), May 13, 2000.

Z1x4y7 and Bingo.

Greetings. Thus far, we've maintained reasonable discussion without trashing each other.

[Isa 1:18] "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

Z1x4y7,

I posted several problems with the NIV. You claim errors in the KJV. Please name the errors in the KJV and answer my questions posted above? Who killed Goliath? David or Elhanan? If the NIV is correct, then we've been lying to our kids for hundreds of years in sunday school.

Is Jesus a fallen angel? I have great problems with the NIV calling our Saviour that. I posted questions to problems, I respectfully challenge you to research and answer them.

Bingo1,

Bingo.

You said "Bring on the flaming fire. If God is about threats, if God is about exclusion, if God is about torture - keep the sonofabitch"

It's not me, the Bible says in [2 Th 1:8] "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"

God is not about exclusion. God is quite inclusive.

[Rom 3:12] "They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."

All men are sinners and wicked before God.

[Rom 3:19] "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

All the world is guilty.

[Rom 3:22] "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:"

All men may believe and trust in Jesus Christ.

[Rom 3:23] "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

That includes you cowboy. The problem with you, as once with me, was pride and refusal to acknowledge sin.

[Rom 4:11] "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:"

The righteousness of Jesus Christ is imputed to all who believe in HIM. The believer gets the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

The Lord Jesus Christ paid for the sin of the world when he shed his blood at Calvary.

As for Satan,

[John 8:44] "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Satan, who is the great deceiver, will bow down before Jesus Christ.

[Rom 14:11] "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."

My friend, either you bow and trust Jesus Christ now as Lord and Saviour, or you bow at the great white throne judgement. It is that clear.

I hope you care enough about you precious soul to study this matter. What would it hurt to open your Bible, read John, and pray? It only takes a little time.

-- trafficjam (road@construction.ahead), May 13, 2000.

Bingo,

Thank you for the compliment.

I thank you for your post, straightforward speech and honesty about what you thought. My post above this one was written with heaviness of heart. If you only knew how wicked a life I've lived and how merciful and loving Jesus Christ has been to me. I know my heart, that it was deceitful and full of pride. Daily I struggle with my flesh and pray that I can be more like Jesus Christ. I marvel how Jesus Christ could love a sinner like me, and how he loved me when I hated him. To look back and see him bleeding and dying on the cross for my sins, knowing it was for my sin he went there, and that my sin was paid for by Him, I marvel at the wonderful grace of Jesus.

I mean no malice whatsoever in the above post. I promise to mention the name Bingo1 in my prayers. This discussion has been a pleasure.

-- trafficjam (road@construction.ahead), May 13, 2000.

It's certainly true that there are tons of internet sites that provide information on the different versions of the Bible. From the information provided in this list, the MLB and NIV versions work off the Greek and Hebrew texts while the KJV leaned heavily on the Bishop's Bible, which leaned heavily on two other previous bibles. Of course those are only the Protestant versions, and I would think Luther's changes would somehow be incorporated as well.

To be honest, TJ, I'm not sure this is deserving of research regarding KJV being the greatest. For instance, KJV ONLY proponents claim that the NIV had some homosexuals as translators. These "version" wars are best left to the Christians, but I doubt it's as simple as declaring one version correct.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), May 13, 2000.

I hate it when that happens. Sorry, folks, but that LONG link still works.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), May 13, 2000.

Thank you Tjam. I pray every day. Not for 'stuff'. But for God's Love to fill my heart, that it may overflow & touch all with whom I come in contact. Amongst other prayers. My spiritual practice is the most important part of my life.

IMO, one BIG reason Christians & non-Christians can't really debate spiritual matters is this: Christians believe the Bible is the Word of God. Non-Christians do not. An exception is the Moslem faith.

Tjam, I have no desire to change you. No desire to lead you in any way towards another spiritual belief. I respect your right to practice your religion. I don't believe you will go to any heaven nor hell based upon your choosing a particular version of Christianity. I leave the judging of souls to others.

Unfortunately, some Christians I've met can't do the same for me. For example, my supervisor believes my soul is dead & I am living apart from God because I don't accept JC as my savior. He's an otherwise good man. But I'm going to hell unless he can change my heart. Doesn't matter that I try hard to be thoughtful of others, do the little things - say 'thank you', open doors, smile with love, stay true to my wife, tithe to my church, serve God by serving others...

I say, let Christ change my heart IF this is necessary for me to avoid eternal torture. Come into my heart, JC. Prove to me Tjam & millions of others are correct. Let me experience your love & wisdom.

In other words, shit or get off the pot.

Best,

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), May 13, 2000.

"Behold I stand at the door and knock if any man hears my voice and lets me in I will come in and sup with him and he with me" Rev.3:20

"but God demonstrates his love for us in tis, while we were still sinners Christ died for us" Romans 5:8

"For it is by grace ye are saved through faith this is not of yourself it it the gift of God" Ephesians 2:8,9

"yet to all who recieved him to those who believed in his name he gave this right to become the children of God" John 1:12

"but in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord" 1 Peter 3:15

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight" Proverbs 3:5,6

"for God did not send his son in the world to condemn the world but to save the world through him" John 3:17

-- (in@the.bible), May 13, 2000.

Bingo 1 -

ROTFLMBO! That was toooooooo funny!

(who are you?)

-- Debra (?!?!@?!.com), May 13, 2000.

Same as I ever was, Deb. May I call you 'Deb'?

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), May 13, 2000.

Traffic,

I thought your KJV statement was kind of funny. If you think the New Testament represents the word of God, do you know who decided what books would be included in the New Testament?

Next question forthcoming,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 13, 2000.

FRANK,read the books of timothy.you,ll find the answer.

-- al-d (dogs@zianet.com), May 13, 2000.

al-d, I find it mildly ironic that you chose for your homily of the day:

>> PRIDE GOES BEFORE THE FALL.ACKNOWLEDGE JESUS & GO TO PARADISE. I MIGHT CAN,T SPELL-BUT I AIN,T GOIN TO HELL. <<

You are so proud of yourself you just can't sit still with it.

Maybe you've heard the term "house-proud" used to describe someone who just lavishes money on their home and is constantly talking about their improvements, showing it off to people. You are like that with your religion. You just burst your buttons over being a Christian.

It's as if you just met some big world-famous celebrity, and he condescended to let you tag along as part of his "posse." Now you go running around all day long, name dropping, telling every dad-blamed person you meet about how Him and you is big buddies, and repeating every word that falls from His lips, as if it reflected some kind of merit or glory on you.

>> answer=ATTITUDE. 1 HUMBLE <<

Your humility is like a child's bravado when he's playing at war with toy guns.

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), May 13, 2000.

Brian, you have to understand that Al-d is like a convicted child molester that becomes a born again Christian after his first gang fuck as a fresh fish. He turned to God when he and his low-life wife were trying to collect on their ill-gained court award. These scumbag bottom feeders embraced religion for all of the wrong reasons. Al Driscoll appears to be somewhat simple minded and wants to elevate himself through his alleged Christianity. This guy is the lowest form of human waste to be found and is an outrage to the Christian community.

-- Ra (tion@l.1), May 13, 2000.

Ra:

Whoa! Those are some pretty heavy duty charges. Do you have links that show this is true? I'm no fan of Al but this is a pretty rotten thing to say about someone and his wife unless you can back it up.

-- Jim Cooke (JJCooke@yahoo.com), May 13, 2000.

RIGHTS.man the debt-collectors are furious,it was a LANDMARK-CASE. and to all'who insulted & belittled my wife,she say,s to tell you'thr new house & ranch are nice.[if GOD is for you,who?can be against you] read it & weep,shagnasty filthy mouth flamers.

-- al-d (dogs@zianet.com), May 11, 2000

humilty eh? tell your wife i said hi. Jim: think its pretty self explanatory. dontcha think?

-- see here (speaks@4.self), May 13, 2000.

The kings James version was authorized by King James. He believed in the devine rights of Kings, he did not like the footnotes in the other versions, because, they let people know kings are no more devine than you are me. The bible was edited by men, it is like the news, don't believe it as all truth, but read between the lines.

Later Crawdad

-- crawdad (crawdad@ihatepeanutbutter.net), May 13, 2000.

This polite post turned into a name calling, finger pointing, sabotage of a post. I have seen this happen a few times before. I believe the sabotage is done with the deliberate intent to kill or dilute the original post, IMO... Honest posters can bring the thread back, ignore the saboteurs.

-- Infidels (surround@us.com), May 13, 2000.

See Here:

No, I don't think it's self explanatory. Calling someone a child molester is a dirty, lowdown thing to do without proof. If you have proof, post it. If not, apologize. If you do neither then you are are scum not worth further notice.

-- Jim Cooke (JJCooke@yahoo.com), May 14, 2000.

Jim, you might take another moment to read the post again. I did not call Al-d a child molester. That would be overly disrespectful to the hard working chicken hawks in our society.

-- Ra (tion@l.1), May 14, 2000.

To answer the original question: EVERYONE GOES TO PARADISe. Everyone wins.

God is everything and everything is God-there is nothing that is not God and we are here to experience who and what we really are.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), May 14, 2000.

Ra:

Sorry, I thought you said he was a child molester but now that I reread the post I see that you only said he was LIKE a child molester. Still pretty strong stuff.

Since you seem to know the details of what happened, why don't you give us a summary? I'd certainly like to know how his life squares up with his professed, if moderately confused, Christian values.

-- Jim Cooke (JJCooke@yahoo.com), May 14, 2000.

Notice how skillfully Satan and his minions hijack and twist various threads?

-- Observer (lots@to.observe), May 14, 2000.

Anybody see the thread with the sign-up sheet to get on the waiting list to try to qualify to become one of Satan's minions? Please post a link here. Please. Please. Please.

My Sizzlin' Best,

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), May 14, 2000.

HAPPY MOTHERS DAY!!!

Bingo 1..

Dont bother. The pay sucks and get this- no OT on the weekends!

Jim

If you had been a regular last year on the old TB2000 you would know all about Mr. Al Driscoll and his wife Marianne. Many links were put up to the newspaper stories (El Paso, TX) and if you want to cruise the archives you will see more than you want. They were also pleading on many Christian sites for people to pray for them to get their money. One site, Pastor Chis, banned them from posting. At one point I believed Al-d was a clever put-on to stir up the forum but no, hes just what he appears to be. And what that might be is subject to our various opinions.

IMO, these incoherent ramblings are not the thoughts of a long time Christian. This in itself should not be held against him. What is repulsive is his moronic misrepresentation of Christian values for his own validation. Should you read the background stories I will be interested in your personal take.

-- Ra (tion@l.1), May 14, 2000.

Jim: I agree with Ra, believe it or not. I have quetioned Al several times w/respects to the allegations that see here posted. I think you may have miss-read see here's post.

He/She/it was showing his one post where he bragged about getting all this money. I dont see where it implies he is a child molester, in all due respect.

I for one 'got it', but like you have asked several times to be enlightened, not to be mean, just really wanted to know what it was about.

Ra: I honestly dont wanna go to the archives and do a search, those are sooooo long, can you point me in the right thread direction at least, or provide a link? I would appreciate it.

I would like to believe what Al has to say, but I am skeptical. In all fairness, all WE have asked for is an explanation. This to me, is not being rude at all.

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), May 14, 2000.

Consumer,

Im not the most skilled navigator of the TB2000 archives but perhaps some one that is will assist us here. I vividly remember that the newspaper articles were posted in their entirety with links. I think the court case took place in El Paso in 1995. As I recall the Driscolls owed a bunch of money to a finance company and would not pay, The finance company took some aggressive action (verbal threats) and the Driscolls took them to court and won some settlement from them, which was not being paid. Our society is full of deadbeat scum like the Driscolls and you and I end up paying for them. The finance company may have had some connections and the Driscolls were, and probably still are scared shitless. Where I come from you pay your debts or get your fuckin head kicked-in. Political correctness is no excuse for not fulfilling ones obligations.

-- Ra (tion@l.1), May 14, 2000.

Some Al-d classics from the past.

Go to this link and tell me that this is our Al-d.

http://www.hccentral.com/wwwboard/messages/589.html

Posted by al-d. on September 09, 1999 at 23:36:09: In Reply to: Re: A letter to Christians posted by Herb Drake on December 20, 1998 at 07:11:45:

--------------------------------------------------------------- Here is the Story

Jury agrees bill collectors went too far, awards couple $11 million By Associated Press Published 08-25-1995 EL PASO - The phone calls came at all hours of the day and night, interrupting Marianne Driscol's sleep and disrupting her work.

Her life was threatened, she was called obscenities , and ultimately she was forced to flee El Paso with her husband, Albert.

All because a collection agency wanted the Driscols to pay an estimated $2,000 credit-card debt. But now it's the credit company and the collection agency it hired that owe the Driscols $11 million.

A state District Court jury agreed with a lawsuit filed by the Driscols that bill collectors went too far.

"They literally scared the hell out of this poor lady," Mrs. Driscol's attorney, Noel Gage, said Thursday. "She cracked, they broke her, they literally broke her."

The Driscols could not be reached for comment Thursday, and Mr. Gage declined to divulge where they were.

Collection agents made numerous profanity-laced phone calls to Mrs. Driscol's home and office during 1991 and 1992, at least one death threat and ultimately phoned in a bomb threat to her work, according to the suit.

The jury ruled that Household Credit Services Inc. of Salinas, Calif., and the now-defunct Allied Adjustment Bureau violated the Texas Debt Collection Practices Act.

The law prohibits debt collectors from threatening violence or arrest or making harassing or obscene phone calls.

Jurors on Wednesday awarded the Driscols $9 million in punitive damages and $2 million in actual damages, a burden that must now be shouldered solely by Household since Allied folded in 1992, Mr. Gage said.

The Driscols' debt will be paid off out of the award.

"It's outrageous," said Household's attorney, Robert Skipworth, adding that the company intends to appeal.

Company officials did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment to The Associated Press.

Mr. Skipworth did not deny the H11H11DriscolsH13H13' complaints. But he did note that "Allied was an independent contractor, and they went about doing these things on their own in breach of their contract with Household."

He said Household had received several complaints about Allied and eventually terminated its contract.

Mr. Gage said, however, that Allied was working as Household's agent and that Household employees made threatening calls to the Driscol's.

The problems began in June 1991 when a then-unemployed Marianne Driscol began falling behind on a Household Visa credit card account.

Household ultimately called to demand its money and threatened to send someone to collect when Mrs. Driscol said she could only pay about $22 a month.

"And that's when things started going downhill and the campaign of harassment began," Mr. Gage said. "They started off calling her . . . and they were using profanity."

Things got worse when the account was turned over in 1992 to Allied, which promised quick results in a short time.

Allied agents, whose true identities were never discovered, began making repeated phone calls to Mrs. Driscol and harassing her at her new job. At one point, her employer logged 26 phone calls within a two-hour period.

In February 1992, a bill collector called and told Mrs. Driscol that she better look over her shoulder if she hadn't paid and said a contract would be put out on her life.

On March 4, 1992, a bomb threat was phoned in to Mrs. Driscol's work place, People Lease Inc.

"Part of the building was evacuated. . . . The Fire Department and bomb squad were called in," said Gary Thompson, People Lease president.

He said he didn't believe the bomb threat was made by Allied or Household but refused to comment further.

Mr. Gage said he is certain Allied made the threat.

Shortly after that, the Driscols moved to New Mexico - Mr. Gage wouldn't say where - and filed their lawsuit in El Paso.

Mr. Gage said that ended the actual harassment. But the Driscols are still afraid, he said.

"I personally don't think they (the bill collectors) are going to bother my clients anymore," Mr. Gage said. "They know better. But my clients don't know that. No matter how much I tell them, they're still very, very concerned." ______________________________________________________________________ ________________

Moving right along..

BE LOOKING FOR LAND.WE RAISE PUPPIES,SO WE NEED RANCHETTE.IF ANY REALTORS SEE THIS WE NEED TO BE IN RURAL-AREA. AL DRISCOL T.-or-C., N. USA - Sunday, November 28, 1999 at 17:29:55 (MST)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I have to confess here. If I could turn a $2000 credit card debt into an $11 million award, I'd be a preaching fool. The question is 'why is Mr. Driscol acting the fool on this forum?' The first link above will take you to a site where Al is replying to another Christian poster. You decide.

-- Not (what@he.seems), May 14, 2000.

Dear Not:

I DID take the time to read your post. Thank you. To date, you are the only one who took the time to really give us some 'insight'.

I do not blame anyone for receiving a settlement if in fact this is what occurred. Hey, I am no dumb dumb myself...

But I PAY my bills...If I could not do so, I would take another job, do what I have to.

From the christian perspective, the bible also says, owe no man nothing but love. Lots of scripture re: debt and being in debt.

I am not a christian, however, I will give it a rest, because bout everybody I know has debt.

Including self, but I pay mine. For $22.00 per month, I'd of made a way...for sure...I know debtors 'used' to be ruthless. I dont believe anybody should of had to endure what they did.

See, I tried to explain that to Al, but he wouldnt/couldnt/refused to take the time to explain. That is his right, I just think if he would have, I would have certainly been open-minded.

I have nothing against anyone who professes to be a Christian. But I do have a problem w/him not responding, when I asked nicely. But hey free speech...so I hope he doesnt mind that i now think he is full of crap, and If I ever attended church, I would hope I didnt meet him there.

I also took the time to even go to the link you suggested.

YES YES YES....seems Al could write well on that board. Perhaps this Al posting here is a FAKE. That IMHO is even worse yet.

At this point, I've read some christian posts on here which have actually brought tears to my eyes.

As for Al, he GAGS me. I hate the way he writes and Rambles, and MOST of all I cant Stand his lack of humility.

I've met/know many fine christians, some whom I would like to model my own life after, but Not this guy.

Until he learns to communicate well, I will scroll on by him. As you can see by going back to the top, he states "i might can,t spell-but i ain,t goin to hell.

I SURE HOPE everybody else takes a look at the website bb you took the time to post, because in all fairness/openmindedness, I DO NOT BELIEVE this to be the same guy.

Thanks again.

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), May 14, 2000.

I looked at the link to al-D's thread. The majority of the thread was written by the previous poster[s] and al-d's response consisted of only the last two lines:

"politics don,t change hearts.did jesus advocate,overthrow of romans?beware of being decieved, by good intentions of christian-co alition.you can,t wear 2 hats'& be free."

Many boards preserve the previous posts unless one intentionally deletes them in a response.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), May 14, 2000.

Ok, so here's the story as I see it.

1. The Driscolls ran up a $2000 credit card bill sometime previously to June of 1991.

2. In June 0f 1991, Marianne Driscoll loses her job and apparently is unable to or refuses to pay even the minimum payment on the credit card. By my calculation, the minimum payment would have been about $50 a month. Apparently Al must have been too busy preaching the gospel to contribute any income to help with the debt.

3. The credit card company got mad when she didn't pay. After some period of time, presumably at least several months, she finally offers to pay $22 a month, an offer the credit card comany refuse, presumably because it would take 10 years or so to pay off the debt.

4. She had apparently started a new job by February, 1992 yet she still doesn't pay the bill.

5. The credit card company starts doing mean things to collect the debt, which is reprehensible and something they should be punished for.

6. The Driscolls sue, and, while we may quibble over whether or not $11 million is a fair anmount for the harrasment they suffered, they are awarded a judgement in August, 1995.

7. And, for the final blow, the news article states that the original debt will be paid from the settlement.

So, for a debt that was acknowleged as being owed in June of 1991, they couldn't have come up with the money to pay this lawful debt until the settlement over four years later? And then only from money they won from the lawsuit?

Sorry, Al, but if this your idea of how Christians conduct themselves then I think I'll look for a better source of inspiration.

-- Jim Cooke (JJCooke@yahoo.com), May 15, 2000.

Jim, I think you have summed up the situation quite well. However, the following statements have given me pause for thought:

"Part of the building was evacuated. . . . The Fire Department and bomb squad were called in," said Gary Thompson, People Lease president.

He said he didn't believe the bomb threat was made by Allied or Household but refused to comment further.

Mr. Gage said he is certain Allied made the threat.

Shortly after that, the Driscols moved to New Mexico - Mr. Gage wouldn't say where - and filed their lawsuit in El Paso.

The President of the company where Marianne Driscol worked did NOT believe that the two defendants, Allied or Household made the bomb threat. He refused further comment. Of course the Driscols lawyer was certain that Allied made the threat. Then the Driscols moved to Truth or Consequences, New Mexico. When you consider it was mainly Marianne Driscols word as to what was said (were the phone conversations taped?) the whole deal has an ugly odor to it. You would think that Mariannes boss would support this poor woman. Sure would be interesting to find out who he thinks made the bomb threat to his business if it wasnt Allied or Household. The bomb threat directly preceded the initiation of the lawsuit. Ive got a guess but will keep it to myself.

Hows your conscience holding up these days Al?

-- Ra (tion@l.1), May 15, 2000.

Dear RA,you wouldn,t believe the truth'i,m afraid.even if i sent you the COURT-TRANSCRIPTS.[you hate me & that,s ok.]i don,t hate you.

-- al-d (dogs@zianet.com), May 15, 2000.

Al, trust me when I say that I dont hate you. Hell, I dont even know you. The interaction is with your cyber persona, and vice versa. I have no hate for the real people I know so how could there be any feelings for made-up personalities. You at least have the cajones to use your real name, well most of it anyway.

-- Ra (tion@l.1), May 16, 2000.