Well, we are all supposed to have sent in our census forms by now. All I told them on mine was my name, address and the number of people living in the house. No one has come back out over that.

I have two questions.

1. I have a portable storage building set some distance from my house. I have had 3 different census workers come by wanting to know who lived in "that little house over there." Each time I told them no one, that it was a storage building. One wanted to know how to get down there to it so she could "verify." Has anyone else had similar problems?

2. I got one of the census forms that asked for the social security number of each person living in the house. I read today on www.lewrockwell.com that only 21,000 of those forms were issured. They were supposed to be a "test" to see if people would really put their social security numbers down on a sheet of paper when it really wasn't necessary, and also they were supposed to be testing to see if people really regarded a SS# as an ID number. This is supposed to be a warm-up for the national ID cards. Question: Did any of you get the form that requested a social security number? I haven't found anyone else locally who has.

Thanks.

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), May 11, 2000

Answers

Hi Green-we have an empty house next to us, (we live in a VERY SMALL TOWN)& this house is obvious no one lives there/ or has for years! (we have tried to buy it & tear it down). We got a long form for our house /& a short form (for our guest house --we just bought next to us & are fixing up). I filled out what I had to report & mailed them in. The census lady has been at my house 7 --yes 7 times! To resubmit the short form on the guest house. To ask about our 11,000 sq. ft. warehouse /who lives in it? The house next to us that is falling down- -how can they catch certain people in town??? Well you get the picture! She said, if she can't get the forms filled out--another person will come--then the F.B.I. will come to those that don't fill out forms! None of ours had asking for ss#, I would not have given it if it had! She was back in town again this morning as I saw her car. Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), May 11, 2000.

I received a version of the long form that I thought asked for ssn's. I guess I didnt pay too much attention. I filled out the number of people and sent it back with a copy of the Constitution emblazoned with the question, "Can you read?" No one has come out to ask any further questions...maybe its the 320lbs of thundermutts in the yard or the big Gadsden flag flapping out front. FWIW, the census taker is "required" to make 5 attempts. If no information is forthcoming they are supposed to poke around and ask anyone they can find that might know the answers to some of the questions, like a neighbor. The only information you are Constitutionally required to give is the number of people living at your house. There is an unconstitutional fine of $100 that the bureau theoretically could attempt to impose for refusing or falsifying information. There is no other potential punishment despite what they might say. I studied up on the subject a bit and I can only find 1 person in history who was given the fine and that was actually added in with some other charges in a pretty strange and extreme circumstance.

-- William in WI (thetoebes@webtv.net), May 11, 2000.

Wow,, I did not get a Census this year. And From what I have been hearing here and from other family and friends,, I am lucky my family was left out! Pretty sad when the government decides people are guilty of something,, and you have to prove you are not!! I thought it was the other way around. The government workers seem to be heavy handed, brain dead and Rude... Guess,,, even the Government has forgot their manners.

-- Bergere (autumnhaus@aol.com), May 11, 2000.

OH NO!! I'm in trouble again!! Does that mean that the FBI is coming to visit me? I didn't fill out my census, and when they came to visit me I told him to get the hell off my property and slammed the door. I guess that makes me a criminal. Oh well! I'm a single woman and refuse to tell any strange man at my door that fact. When I was 17, many many years ago, I answered all the questions that a census taker asked me. Being young and stupid, gave him the telephone # when he asked too. I was stalked for months, on the phone and at my door in the middle of the night. I ended up getting a large male friend to stay at my apartment for a while and answer both door and phone. I'm not going through that again. So let them send the FBI!

-- Jill Faerber (lance1_86404@yahoo.com), May 12, 2000.

I have not had a problem with the out building question but I did receive the form requesting SSI numbers. I used it for firestarter. I know some of the local census people and---none of them are stupid enough to make any appearence here and most of them are the stupidest people in the county. I think we should understand that the census workers are the people that couldn't even buy a job anywhere else. They were unemployed in the biggest economy boom in my lifetime. The are easily brainwashed into believing that they are now important and they sadly believe they are now government employees(even if it is only for 12 weeks). I think if you were to tell them " look Mr. Census Man, I just got home from the mental hospital and I'm feeling a little disoriented--could you help me get the safety of my AK-47" --than they would go away. My govenment is in the business of lies so I have no problem lying to them,even though I'm honest. Give them misleading inappropiete information. If it is a man--send him on a wild goose chase for a single attractive woman living in the woods. If it is a woman--make inproper advances and scare her to death. We have all heard the lies about this census and none of us were gullable enough to believe one word of it. If it is a war you seek--than give it to them but there is easier way--Don't respond to to the knock on the door ! They will be returning the unemplyment line in 12 weeks !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), May 12, 2000.

Joel, I can't speak for the area where you live, but you are wrong about the reasons people here took the Census jobs. Probably half of the Census workers here were retired people trying to supplement their income. Some were working full-time and did the Census part- time. I took it because it was one of the few jobs I could find that would let me keep my handicapped daughter with me (she can't read, so couldn't break the privacy act.) I'm not doing the follow-up, on the forms that didn't get returned, so please don't blame me for all the above incidents -- but for the most part they are just trying to do the job -- and have been given specific instructions on how to do it, which they are supposed to follow to the letter -- so really the people to blame are the ones who set the whole thing up. Re: sending the forms back in, all I know is that we were told not to press for any information other than the address and name of a resident -- but I was only passing the forms out. As far as the outbuilding is concerned, seven return visits just for that?!? I was told to find out, whenever possible, if there were any additional "living quarters" on the property, to make sure that those living quarters got their form, but once they've been told "no, there are no other living quarters" that should have been the end of it! And, just to repeat what I said on the original thread, I never got a good look at the contents of any of the questionaire's so can't answer questions about that.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), May 12, 2000.

Sorry Kathleen, Here in hillbilly heaven all they could find to work the census were the local barmaids and beer taste testers. No one else would work for them--I don't fault anyone for work and I understand the instructions were pitiful. It is my hope that no one gets hurt in this census ! But you have to understand that you are doing somthing that some people really object to ! I think you could safely just write " no one at home" and move past them ---and still be doing your job. THE CENSUS IS NOT IMPORTANT and no one should die for it !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), May 12, 2000.

Wow! I'm learning all kinds of things here. Our census only asked for the names, bithdates, and race of the people living here. I thought that was reasonable enough. I knew there was a short form and a long form but didn't really think too much about what might be on the long one. Are there more than two forms? Should people not consider their ss# an ID#? What do you mean about national ID cards? I dont like the sound of that. Denise

-- Denise H. (jphammock@earthlink.net), May 12, 2000.

We didn't get a census form, either,hope we don't have one still coming to us! We have an ex-relative that was the district manager for the census, and she was told that the census takers should ask not only about houses, but sheds, barns,any outbuilding, even caves! Anything that could possibly be used as a shelter was to be written down and marked on a map. If a person was uncooperative, they are to go to your neighbor and pump them for details, and frequently the nosy next door neighbors are all too happy to tell evrything they know! As far as the FBI, they are just intimidating you. They tried that with a friend of ours here, told him that if he didn't fill out the rac part of the form the sherrif would be out to arrest him. So this friend called up the census office, told them what had gone on, and asked if he was going to be arrested for not giving his race. He made a big stink about it! The office was very apologetic, and assured him that nothing like that was going to happen. Why not give your race? Well, during The invasion of Pearl Harbor, you might recall that all the Japanese people, citizens or not, were rounded and put in concentration camps. Many of them found their land and propety had been conficated or taken by neighbors, etc, when they were finally released. Some of these citizens had sons fighting in the war against the Japanese. It is a proven fact that the government used census data to find out where the Japanese were, and that is how they rounded them all up.Do not let these census workers intimidate and lie to you!If you are going to tell them anything, just tell them the number of people in the house and nothing else. Please, do not voluntarily give up your privacy and constitutional rights!

-- R (valueyourprivacy@USA.com), May 12, 2000.

THE CENSUS DOES HAVE ONE VERY IMPORTANT JOB!!! If the government doesn't know how many people live in a given area (I'm not talking about privacy questions), then they won't know how much aid ($$) to send to disaster areas (hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, etc..), or funding (like farmers that have major crop failer, school funding, etc..). I can't list them all, & don't know what all the funding this census helps the government distribute to those in need. (I think disasters & education alone is worth it.) There are a lot of things about the census that could have been done better (& without prying into things that is none of their business), but don't fault the government for wanting accurate population numbers. What if your area is the next disaster? Wouldn't it be nice to have that first aid help (& food when hungry)? Not everyone can homeschool their kids (& some really want to), it's nice to know the government includes education as part of the funding.

Sorry to go on like that.

animalfarms

-- animalfarms (In) (jwlewis@indy.net), May 12, 2000.

I disagree respectively, animal farm. The government knows who you are, where you live and how many kids you have, and what your employment and annual salary is--just off your tax return. What they are looking for now is how to raise your taxes. There are no plus's to the census only minus's. Disasters happen no matter what answer you give. As for me and mine--I plead the 5th amendment and refuse to answer. Our schools have forgotten their new first name--it is now Gladiator School. I feel sorry for those who have to send their children to them. If you want your children safe, warm, happy and educated than you must do it yourself. It would be better to not have your child educated than to submit them to the public school system ! I have a biblical reference--which of you that loved your child would hand them a snake ?

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), May 12, 2000.

Living in Canada, I am unfamiliar with your census procedures. I have, however been following the hoopla in the news.

Forgive me if I am wrong here, but don't you folks down there have something called a Constitution guarenteeing you your privacy? I don't understand exactly why a country that prides itself on being what we Canadians (with respect) call a "melting pot" of races and cultures (i.e., when you live there, you're American, regardless) -- as opposed to our "multicultural" society -- would need to know what "race" you count yourself among, or whether or not you have a hermit uncle living in a cave on the back forty??? What possible use could they have for this information OTHER than the obvious, in putting together profiles of areas based on race, creed, sexual orientation, income level, religion, etc??? which, forgive me yet again, I believe is exactly what the US has laws against, don't they?

I admire people who refuse to bow to a system they feel is unfair. Joel, I admire you. Here in Canada we are seldom called upon to defend our rights and freedoms. Our federal government seems, at times, to buy in to the mistaken opinion that Canada stops at the borders of Ontario, except when it comes to tax collection time, of course. Other than that, they pretty much leave us alone.

-- Tracy (trimmer@westzone.com), May 12, 2000.

Hi Tracy, In answer to your question--we have a lovely piece of paper we call a constitution and it matters just as much as a shredded piece of tissue that has been run over by a lawn mower in a park. The words are still there if someone would take the time to glue them back together ! We the People have become --The few, The uninformed and The rich ! We are so credit rich and money poor the world ought to call our loans in and feed off our gluteny.There are "good" people in this forum, independent minds--they ran from something---to --"beyond the sidewalks". Although the government labels me "a white sepratist" I dare anyone to find to find any racial ethics in my posts. I believe, I have brothers in a commom cause that feel that way--I only speak for myself and that is not the way I feel ! I do know "All Men in Chains are Brothers" ! I have been jailed for my beliefs--Ruby Ridge, obstruction of justice and during Waco--I was held without bond for 13 days(reminded me of the Alamo). Janet Reno waited till 1 hour after my flight left Miami to raid "Elians sanctuary" Am I important? NO I-- just believe in rights ! My government has changed everything. Now you must prove your innocence instead of them proving your guilt. One day they will come for me--And I steal this quote from Colonel William Barret Travis " I am determined to sustain myself as long as possible and die like a soldier who never forgets what is due to his own honer and that of his country" And--My wife and children are not subject to my integrity---- and never believe any newspapers--my wife and children are born and schooled in human rights--if they stay it is their choice-- children under 18 years of age will go to our parents. While the pen is mightier than the sword,I choose the pen ! --when your on my property with HK-Mp5 automatic machine guns--than, I choose "The Sword" !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), May 13, 2000.

Joel is right about the Constitution not meaning much to our government or our justice system anymore, but the ironic thing is that the Census was originally IN the Consitution. It is -- or was intended to be -- how the representative districts were apportioned. Now they are gathering information for a lot of other reasons as well, and, while I'm not going to shoot anyone who comes on my property, Joel is right that a lot of what was on the Census forms this year was uncalled for -- it is also true that anyone who files an income tax form has already given the government plenty of information. We don't have any Biblical justification for fighting the government, though, even when they are wrong -- unless they tell us to do something that is against God's laws (i.e. murder). At that point we can, must, refuse to comply, and ought to speak up against what is going on. But not start a shooting war. The real warfare is spiritual, and the real ammunition is prayer by believing Christians. God is strong enough to handle even the government of the United States, and there is a reason for what is happening to our country -- it is showing what happens to a people who abandon and then defy God.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), May 13, 2000.

By the way, as I've been doing some research, I have found that Census data on counties is a useful tool. Especially the info. gathered by the agricultural census, which isn't quite the same thing as what this thread is about, as it is only for people with farms -- we qualify, as my husband is a beekeeper, and he has to fill out a form for them periodically. That's how the government keeps track of what is happening to the small family farms in this country . . . wish they'd help them instead of hindering. Or at least leave them alone!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), May 13, 2000.

Animal Farm---check out this web-site to see what kind of "education" the government deems appropriate for the children of this once great nation.

http://www.massnews.com/maygsa.htm

And Kathleen, how can we expect prayer by believing Christians to fight the government, when (and I agree with you whole-heartedly about this), as you so eloquently put it, people are abandoning and then defying God?

I say as citizens of this country we HAVE to stand up and fight it's government!! For if we don't, what have we taught our children???

-- dave IA (tidman@midiowa.net), May 13, 2000.

SUBMISSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's What!

DOWN WITH THE CENSUS!!!

-- dave IA (tidman@midiowa.net), May 13, 2000.

I just looked at that site Dave mentioned -- it is GROSS. And what starts in Massachusetts, in the education system there, spreads over the whole country. That is where the public "education" system started in the first place.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), May 14, 2000.

The census is just another waste of money and an intrusion into our lives! I have 3 kids in public school, pay property,income,school tax, water bill etc. THEY know exactly who lives here! Don't kid yourself! I didn't get a form at my po box, I wouldn't have filled it out anyway, and yes, the 60 lb furry thing over there-bites.

-- Kathy (catfish@bestweb.net), May 14, 2000.

a local tv news cast said that one way to tell if a census taker was real was that a real one besides having an id would never ask your ssn. i didn't have to give mine but question how accurate it will be as i had sent in my form right after i got it but they did not have me listed on the list so i guess i will count for 2. the one at my house and the one i mailed it. gail

-- gail fick (gef123@hotmail.comil), May 15, 2000.

The long form was what I received. Beyond invasive. I tossed it. They know how many people are here already. From the last census they reported that 48,000 people hadn't sent it in.

They have no right to ascertain anything other than the number of people over the age of majority and under. Not sex as we have the 19th Ammendnment, not race as we have the 24th Ammendment. As for their "disaster relief", by God it is our money that is being stolen from us through illegal taxation and then they hang that out there to entice us to give up more of our rights!

Say no to the census as it stands. I emailed Ron Paul my representative regarding this census and his office emailed back saying that they are fighting to have a constitutionally correct census taken, but not this invasion. It's hard to gripe to Ron Paul as he is one of the very few in Congress who actually upholds the Constitution. I would vote for him for President if there was any chance that they would actually count the votes.

-- Doreen Davenport (livinginskin@yahoo.com), May 17, 2000.

I believe that if they have enough money to squander on personal visits by census workers, they have enough money to send a tax collector to each door too. And why not do both at the same time on census years? The govt should be the ones figuring out what people owe for roads and national defense - and that's all - and sending someone in person to collect it.

-- t-vale (trinity@aol.com), May 18, 2000.

One of my bestfriend's daughters received the long form and just filled in how many people lived in her home and sent it back in. They sent a guy to her house to ask the rest of the questions last week...he asked questions such as: Do you have a bed? And then Do you sleep in that bed???? She refused to answer any such questions. When he asked her how many bathrooms she had, she asked him: do you mean inside the house or outside?

The guy was so rattled that he backed into a tree when he started to leave and then backed into a ditch after that!!! Why does the government need to know whether any of us have beds and where we sleep????

I agree we all need to stand up to our Constitutional rights!!! The government could estimate populations in a lot of better ways than this....

-- Suzy in 'bama (slgt@yahoo.com), May 18, 2000.

This is Monday, July 17'00 & guess who came to our door this morning & woke us up? You guessed it-----the census people again! If anyone has lost count on the visits to our place, it is now # 8 !!!!! Does the F.B.I. come next?????? Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), July 17, 2000.