from When will Y2K Pro know that Y2K is not a problem?

When will we know that Y2K is NOT a problem? Will it be when..

Asia, South America, China, and the rest of the underdeveloped world manages to fix on failure?

the US military, the FBI, and The Royal Canadian Mounted Police cancel their no leave policy?

the masses decide that banks are good idea after all and stand in line to make deposits instead of withdrawals?

Home Depot and Loew's have a surplus of generators?

banks think that the KIA commercials were pretty funny after all?

everyone takes electricity and water on demand for granted again?

people go to Sam's to buy big screen tv's and office supplies instead of rice and beans?

industry stops stockpiling raw goods?

no new laws are passed to protect industry from Y2K litigation?

there is a shortage of web programmers to remove Y2K compliance disclaimer pages from industry web pages?

Everyone gets their paycheck, welfare payments, and unemployment checks on time?

the stock market crashes and no one blames it on Y2K?

the rail industry stops looking for the manual switches that were removed years ago?

the IRS, FAA, HCFA, and NERC fire their spin doctors and get back to the serious business of mismanagement?

contingency planning becomes a major course of study at all universities?

those who are actually working on the damn problem keel over from exhaustion and are rewarded with unemployment only to have the Polly's say, "See I told you that it was no big deal"?

-- MoVe Immediate (MVI@yepimhere.com), August 16, 1999

How We Knew What We Knew - Part 1

Time doesn't permit an adequate dissection of the multiple flaws in critical thinking represented here, so I will be selective in this commentary.

Let us begin with the "under-developed" and "third-world" countries lie: This assumes there was anything to fix to begin with, which there was not. A catastrophic Y2K was not avioded (contrary to the doomer meme), the truth is a catastrophic Y2k was a fantasy concocted in the minds of a few disillusioned lunatics. The third-world countries didn't spend any money "fixing" the problem becuase money in most of those countries was not available. They survived - as did we all. Would the West have survived without massive amounts of cash and effort directed at the perceived problem? Yes.

I purchased a generator from a large hardware firm in January for less than half-price. When I asked the sales clerk the reason it was marked down (suspecting some flaw), she explained it had been returned after the new year passed with absolutely no Y2k-related failures. It had never been run, as there was no need. So, I suppose I profited from the idiocy, and should be grateful... ;) At the current time, generators are still selling below market, due to overstock.

My clients (some of them bankers) always believed the KIA commercials were funny - but then they had someone who correctly weighed the possibilities consulting them (myself).

At no time in history has 'everyone' taken water and electricity for granted - this was one of the major flaws in the 'reasoning' of the typical doomer (who probably did take them for granted). Those who used to take water and electricity for granted still do.

I'll stop here for the sake of brevity. Some will never acknowledge the fact of the matter - there was never a need to prepare, as there was precisely zero chance of this imagined crisis coming to fruition. Largely, it was a scare tactic that sought to become a self-fulfillling prophecy in the hopes of 'turning the tide' of 'justice' away from the 'evil' (successful) people on the planet and towards the 'just' (failed, lazy, insecure, inferiority-complexed). As is often the case, authentic justice prevailed - exposing the idiots for the pathetic specimens they are. Rice, beans, and crow - Doomer Hash.

Vindicated Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), May 06, 2000

Answers

Andy Ray, you don't know jack shit about underdeveloped counties. Here is what I believe happened: there was a lot of dependence on software, but it was packaged software from foreign firms. The computer shops in the LDCs merely installed the Y2K fixes sent to them by their suppliers. One of my information sources told me this is exactly what happened in Nigeria.

This certainly does reduce Y2K remediation to normal maintenance (one strand of polly thinking). It offers no support for the fix-on-failure model, that we've been getting so much noise about from other pollies ("country X did nothing, squat, zero..blah blah blah").

OK, did I as a pessimist foresee this happy outcome? No, I did not. One of this year's pleasant surprises.

-- Peter Errington (petere@ricochet.net), May 06, 2000.

You know, perhaps THE single most ironic twist to the entire Y2K issue is the fact that the "doomers" have moved on with their lives, while the "pollies" are still hacking away at why they were right.

Here's a clue: WE DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT YOU EX-POLLIES AND TROLLS HAVE TO SAY.

It's, um, MAY 2000, and we have vacations to plan, childrens' education to see to, and regular jobs to do. Here's hoping that this smack with the clue-bat will help you polly/troll types to GET ON WITH IT. Y2K is OVER. We no longer care.

Why do YOU?

(snicker)

-- Yeah Right (Ahhhh@haaa.haaa.haaa), May 06, 2000.

Peter and Yeah,

AMEN, Bros!!!

-- Prepster (Keep@those.preps), May 06, 2000.

So, vindicated smug one, you didn't even address your own topic---how DID you know what you knew?

Forget about Parts 2 thru 102. Part 1 was useless.

"Yeah right", you've got this lil Andy Ray guy pegged.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), May 06, 2000.

Andy Ray,

No offence intended, but, "Get Over It!"

Trust me when I tell you that at my age, I wasn't looking forward to hauling gallons of water through the desert, if the snakes didn't get me first. Didn't look forward to no electric. Didn't look forward to cooking on the BBQ outside. Didn't look forward to roving gangs passing through to loot and pillage.

Therefore I am tickled pink that nothing happened.

However living where I do, So. Calif., it's like living on a bowl of jello. Small, medium or large quakes can and do happen at any time. Winds of 50/75 miles are not uncommon, can and do take down power lines. This area isn't any better or worse when it comes to natural disasters, with tornados, floods, etc. Let's not overlook Hurricanes.

Prepared? You can bet your sweet bippy I am prepared as are all of my neighbors, at all times. 'Ya never know.

Don't consider (and never did) myself a Polly or a Doomer, just someone who would rather be prepared for the worst, hoping for the best. The best happened.

As to Third World Countries, common sense would tell anyone that since they were (are) Third World Countries, they rely very little on computers and electric as it is, what's to worry? What? There's no electric and their abacus won't work?

Any thinking person knew the difference between hype and truth. I've owned a generator for six years, long before Y2K was a glint in anyone's eye. Some drunk hits an electric pole five or ten miles from here, I've got a back up.

While you may be well intentioned in posting a parting shot at Doomers, (whoever they may be) it strikes me that you are not only whipping a dead horse you are now kicking it as well.

Good luck to you and I hope you've living someplace that is immune to any and all natural or man-made disasters. Lucky you!

-- Richard (Astral-Acres@webtv.net), May 06, 2000.

I hope that none of you ever have to suffer "hard times" or a disaster. But if you should, then much of the info provided on the "old forums" will be a tremendous asset.

I was an "Okie" during the dust bowl/depression. I have experenced WW II, the Cold War, recessions/job loss, etc.

We have enough potiental problems in our future to dictate always being prudently prepared.

Everyone I know wanted Y2k to be a big zero so we are all very thankful we sailed through with just a few small "bumps".

This forum can still be an asset if it is used to probe our future.

I do not believe we would see the degree of unusual behaviour if we were together in the real world.

-- fauna (xx@zz.ed), May 06, 2000.

Andy,

May I remind you this forum is TimeBomb2000 uncensored spinoff. The original had zero to do with Y2k, why do you think this one does? ROLFLMAO.

Seems their TimeBomb was not equipped with Duracells, shame. And they had warnings from that lady who asked if here D-cells were compliant, memeber that? We gots no Elivs pictures, and no WhyTwoKay, drats.

-- Attack-Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), May 06, 2000.

We no longer care.

Written on a forum entitled TB2K spinoff uncensored. Typical doomer - idiot.

Further Vindicated Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), May 06, 2000.

Ha, Attack-Paulie, that I do remember! It was as legitimate a question as any other at the Hysterium! And, typical of the fear- mongering that occurred there.

At times, I find myself wishing that the world would have seen some effect from Y2k, if for no other reason than to assuage doomers in their pathetic existences...

Vindicated Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), May 06, 2000.

Dumb post but neat answers.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), May 06, 2000.

Lars,

So Andy Ray is getting under your skin, huh? Gee, I'm sorry he didn't answer the question to your liking, but he got to the root of the problem. That is, there was no problem. (Poor baby, subtlety seems to escape you.)

But I'll humor you and give you an answer in a form you were probably expecting.

The State of Texas has over 200 state agencies and universities. We had a huge Y2K project. (All our progress reports are still online if you're curious about how big it really was.) By early '99 even the most junior programmer trainee had figured out that Y2K was vastly overblown. They could see that we would fix our problems well ahead of schedule.

AND THEN - Ta-Da! - they made the heroically intuitive LEAP: If state government can do it, ANYONE can!

And just about anyone else in the whole world who was in a Y2K project had the same flash of insight. In the REAL WORLD (as opposed to the insular, ego-stroking, posting-fetish world of TB2K) it was easy for people to take other folks' assurances about their Y2K projects. The reasoning went something like this, "Our project was a piece of cake. Therefore, everyone else's was, too."

So, yes, the debunkers DID know more than you. The general public knew more than YOU did. And we knew it at least a year beforehand. Some of us knew it much earlier.

So take your medicine like a man and stop whimpering. Andy, you might want to stop by Wal-Mart this afternoon and pick up a couple more cases of Extract of Humility. These guys obviously need some long-term, intensive medication to recover from their meme infection.

-- N.Arro (N.Arro@home.now), May 06, 2000.

Puffery becomes you Andy Ray. As mentioned above, you didn't get around to the post line.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), May 06, 2000.

This sounds so much like a few braggadocios, strutting out, after the race is finished (maybe). Boasting, "I knew this one or that one, was going to win!". It is easy to boast, after the results are in, over one race. Suppose Y2K was not the real catalyst to bring an economy to it's knees, but folks prepared. I think I speak for some, who had no idea what Would happen, we could only identify with what Could happen. While the rest of the Suburu crowd rode into oblivion. Maybe the real catalyst is the rise in gasoline prices, food prices, the latest "I love you" bug, costing small and big business, big amounts. Don't forget the drought. How are you faring financially? "Great!" you say. "Never had so much money!". The middleman, the farmer, the mechanic, the plumber, the septic tank cleaner, are the ones who generate the real money. If you kill him, you kill the goose with the Golden Egg. Think on it........

-- Truth (inyourf@ce.com), May 06, 2000.

Has anyone seen Porky in Cellblock D lately? Ooooo, how I miss my hunka hunka burnin' love! Porky, if you and the boys are still lurking, how about another game of spank the polly? I'll be the polly! (teehee) *wink*

Expectant Regards,
Andy Boy

-- Andy Boy (andyboy666@hotmale.com), May 06, 2000.

AR:

I purchased a generator from a large hardware firm in January for less than half-price. When I asked the sales clerk the reason it was marked down (suspecting some flaw), she explained it had been returned after the new year passed with absolutely no Y2k-related failures. It had never been run, as there was no need. So, I suppose I profited from the idiocy, and should be grateful... ;) At the current time, generators are still selling below market, due to overstock.

If you purchased a generator from a large hardware firm you probably got a piece of junk. I have a Honda, which I have had for a long time. It didn't come cheap; but it does last [and also doesn't destroy my electrical equipment]. I need it for power away from the incoming lines [we rural folks need such stuff]. I didn't get it for Y2K and I knew that I didn't need it for that.

I can tell you that if it cost less than $2000 [3500; more for bigger] that you have bought yourself a world of trouble. :o)

That is from my experience.

Best w

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), May 06, 2000.