A hint and a half for Lizzie?

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There is a thread pondering the significance of Elizabeth's initial refusal of Mark's mother's pearls. I want to know what everyone thinks about why David offered them to Lizzie in the first place. I have to admit, I was stunned, and my reaction was precisely as Elizabeths.

-- S. Trelles (trelles@ix.netcom.com), May 05, 2000


I agree. My immediate reaction was "What must Mark be thinking?" Giving jewelry that belonged to the mother assumes quite a lot about a relationship. Have they said anything about their relationship being a permanent one? Even to each other? Did you notice that Mark did not look surprised or distressed over the gift?

-- Nancy Wilson (nwilson@wko.com), May 05, 2000.

In my opinion, I think the reason that David gave it to Lizzie is because he had established a very good relationship with her and her mother. In a sense, David knew Lizzie very well through their social outings that they have had (eg, dinner, bowling). In fact, close enough that David trusted her and the reason why he had always gone to her for favors. As far as I can remember, I don't think Mark's ex-wife was close to him because he lived in San Diego. There is also a small possibility that David feels that Mark & Lizzie's relationship will become serious that could probably lead to a marriage. And giving her the pearls was a way to tell her that he approves of her.

This is my other(most probable) reason.... David could not have given it to Mark's ex-wife because maybe David's wife was still alive at the time. By the time David's wife died, I think that Mark was just starting to have problems with his own wife and in the early stages of their divorce. I think it would be stupid for him to give it to her at that time.

Well, these are my thoughts. What do you think.........

-- abigail (abbyqueen@aol.com), May 05, 2000.

I thought Mark got divorced a long time ago? On tonight's TNT rerun, Mark was delivered with divorce papers while at work and he said something to Susan about it. Didn't Mark's mother just recently die? Or am I getting episodes mixed up?

M. Swain

-- M.Swain (smswain@xmission.com), May 05, 2000.

Mark and his wife were divorced well before Mark's mother died. I think she died at the beginning of this season, or near the end of last season. Hence David's eventual move to Chicago.

David really wanted Elizabeth to have the pearls. I agree it was proably due to the relationship they had established over the recent months. And it could very well be he sees her and Mark's relationship progressing. Or he just wanted a dear friend to have something that was special to him.

-- Michelle (michw_316@yahoo.com), May 06, 2000.

By the time David's wife (Mark's mother) died, Mark was already divorced from Rachel's (his daughter) mother, Jen.

Here's the thing. I thought a family heirloom was just that-for family. I knew a guy who's grandparents had several beautiful pieces of jewelry, family heirlooms (the family was in the business). My friend was given his grandmothers engagement ring and a few *verry* nice pieces that were for the express use of his future wife. These pieces went to him because he was the oldest grandson. It was *tradition*. And NOTICE***SOILER ALERT*** Pearls are traditionally given for WEDDINGS. I myself wore my mother's pearls at my own wedding.

This is why I entitled the thread "A hint and a half for Lizzie". I think that he approves of Lizzie as a member of his family and that his late wife would have as well. To me, it was a touching, amazing, stunning gesture. And those were *nice* pearls.

-- S. Trelles (trelles@ix.netcom.com), May 06, 2000.

Maybe it was just me.....I asumed that although Elizabeth is Mark's girlfriend, she was David's only allie when he decided how he wanted to die. How can you possibly thank someone, who showed you respect, and offered you comfort at one of the most important moments of your life? I am pleased that Elizabeth refused at first, because it was such an important gift, but remained true to her dear friends dying wish.

-- Deb (KHege@AOL.com), May 06, 2000.

Mark has a daughter. She should have gotten her grandmother's pearls. Lizzie should have said, "No, these should go to Rachel." That was my first thought. My second thought was that while David might have been sanctifying the Mark-Elizabeth union, he was also thanking Elizabeth for honoring some of his wishes over the past few months regarding his medical care.

-- M. Maynard (mamayn@aol.com), May 06, 2000.

M.Maynard - I agree, won't Rachel feel a little cheated if she hears her grandmother's pearls went to someone not even a member of the family? Surely David should have given them to Mark and maybe hinted that he should give them to Elizabeth? But then again David wanted to thank Lizzie himself for everything she's done for him. I think it's a very sweet gesture, but when/if Mark and Lizzie break up won't it make things very difficult - In a way she should keep the pearl cos they were a present from a dying friend, but also she should give them back because they belong in Mark's family.

I also think that David giving them to her must me more than just a thank-you - it's his way of telling her that even if she doesn't marry Mark or stay with him he would still think of her as family because of everything she's done for him. It's also a very big hint for them to get married, a way of David saying he would approve if they did get married even though he won't be around to see it.

-- Juliet (Vizzn@AOL.com), May 06, 2000.

I think everyone's reading way too much into David giving Lizzie the pearls. Obviously those were special to him, and he wanted Lizzie to have them. He & Lizzie had grown close over the last few months. And remember that David specifically asked that Lizzie treat him. It seemed that he only trusted her. That was his only way to repay her. I think that if Mark & Lizzie were ever to break up, she's got enough class to offer them back to him. And I'm sure that's not the only piece of jewelry that Mark's Mom owned! Mark probably has her wedding rings. That would be something even more special to pass on to Rachel.

-- Ellen (dbspunky61@hotmail.com), May 06, 2000.

Actually, I would think it would be more appropriate to give Mrs. Greene's wedding ring to Mark so he can offer it to his future wife.

Anyway, someone above said they didn't think Mark looked surprised. I'll have to go back and watch it again, but I thought he looked quite surprised--almost stunned. And the way Elizabeth looked at him, it almost looked like she was asking permission, and he offered it. In response to the original question, I do think David was offering her a "welcome to the family" as well as thanking her for being such a wonderful friend. I believe he meant to show that he would be pleased if they married--but that she would be a part of them even if they didn't.

-- joy (joygirl01@yahoo.com), May 06, 2000.

Yes, the wedding rings should stay with Mark. But my point was, that I'm sure there's more things to be handed down than just that one set of pearls! David liked Lizzie & had the opportunity to give her something he treasured. If Rachel had been there, he'd probably have given her something too. I'm sure he would've had something set aside for her anyway.

-- Ellen (dbspunky61@hotmail.com), May 06, 2000.

Joy, I agree...I thought Mark seemed very stunned by what his father did. I also agree with someone else above about the fact that the pearls should go to Rachel IMO.

-- amanda (amanda.rehm@home.com), May 06, 2000.

Mark & Jen were divorced way ahead of his mother's death because he broke up with Cynthia on the episode when his mom fell and he flew out to San Diego and found out she was seeing a shrink.

-- Linda (l.brown@mindspring.com), May 06, 2000.

I thought it was great that David offered and Elizabeth accepted the pearls. Remember that David was a little snippy about Elizabeth at first and made some rather rude comments to her during the Thanksgiving episode, but he came around to really like her and realize what a wonderful person she is AND how good she is for Mark. The David Greene character sure changed a lot over time, so it makes sense that he would thank Elizabeth for everything she's done for him by offering her the pearls. I think she refused at first because it was such a momentous gift and perhaps she felt awkward because she and Mark are not that serious yet, but realized what it meant to David so accepted them. I know I couldn't turn down a dying friend's request!!

-- Cindy (tailchasers@earthlink.net), May 07, 2000.

Can any of us imagine what it would be like to go through what you know will be a terminal illness? I think it would be one of the hardest things to have land on your plate. So, being that the pearls were special to David (but still just a "thing" nonetheless) he was expressing his appreciation to Elizabeth for what she meant to him throughout his ordeal. It meant something to David that Lizzie have them, and his wish should have been, and was, honored. Rachel may end up with them someday anyway, but since she's pretty much been a poop the last few years I don't feel too bad about it. She'll get "things" handed down to her in due time. It was more important that David's wanting Lizzie to have the pearls was honored. Plus, I think he was hoping the relationship between Lizzie & Mark becomes more cemented as time goes on, but the gift wasn't dependent on that. I really enjoyed the relationship between Lizzie & David, from the moment she opened her door to him on Thanksgiving, to his death, and the pearls were David's expression to Elizabeth that it was special to him too.

-- Emma (redwing8420@aol.com), May 07, 2000.

I don't think it's up to anyone but David as to who gets what. So even if everyone thinks he should've done this or that for Rachel, it's not up to them! Rachel's too young anyway to appreciate what the pearls meant to him. He probably knew that a gift like that would wind up in Jen's hands to watch over, and he probably didn't want that to happen. There's probably plenty more stuff to hand down, and that will be done at the appropriate time for Rachel.

-- Ellen (dbspunky61@hotmail.com), May 07, 2000.

This was my favourite scene. Everyone was perfect- the best actors on the show interacting so well. David offered the gift for all the right reasons, and both Mark and Elizabeth were gracious enough to accept the gesture in just the right way. Whether M&E get more serious is an issue, but the message I got from the scene, and from this entire plot, is that only the moment matters and people should do what is best in it. Emma- Rachel has always annoyed me, and I have searched for an appropriate name for her. From now on, to me, she is The Poop. Thanks.

-- May (archerl@cadvision.com), May 07, 2000.

Imagine being David in this situation. He knows he's dying. But this person that he wants to have his wife's pearls is not accepting them. Maybe Elizabeth doesn't think she deserves them but accepted them to humor David. He obviously likes her a lot, whether as a friend for himself, a partner for Mark or both. He wanted to show her somehow. I doubt it crossed his mind that those pearls should be going to Rachel. It may have crossed Elizabeth and Mark's, but then and there was not the place to say something. David wanted them to go to Elizabeth and it was best that she thanked him for them.

-- Joanne (bucklind@hotmail.com), May 08, 2000.

I was one who said the pearls should be given to Rachel, but I totally agree that Elizabeth did the right thing by accepting them. It was a very touching gesture of David and she respected his last wishes by taking them. It really was all very sweet.

-- amanda (amanda.rehm@home.com), May 08, 2000.

What I saw in this was David considering Elizabeth as his own daughter, a daughter of the heart. So actually, the pearls were kept in the "family"

-- Manon (brault@saglac.qc.ca), May 08, 2000.

Thank you Ellen. In rl I am annoyed when people refer to which family member should get what. The pearls once belonged to Mark's mom. When she died I am assuming she didn't leave specific instructions for them so they become David's. He gave them to Elizabeth.

Rachel has no "claim" on them any more than she has a claim on anything of her grandparents, or parents for that matter. It is up to the individual what should happen to their property.

-- Rusty Priske (rusty.priske@hrdc-drhc.gc.ca), May 08, 2000.

My only reason for saying they should stay in the family is because of what happened in my husband's family: My husband's grandmother gave his cousin (the oldest male grandchild) her 4 carat diamond to give to his fiance (against the wishes of my husband's mom and aunt) when they got engaged (got that?). Well, they were married for 8 months and are now divorced and I believe the diamond is still in her possession. I am sure Elizabeth has a lot more class than that though and would give the pearls back to Mark in the event that they break up.

-- amanda (amanda.rehm@home.com), May 08, 2000.

I understand it can be hard to take but that's just life. When you say "against the wishes of his mother and aunt" you are implying that their wishes should have some sway.

They don't. That's just the way it is. He gave it to the person he wanted to give it to. It is too bad that they didn't stay together but unfortunately, life works like that sometimes.

-- Rusty Priske (rusty.priske@hrdc-drhc.gc.ca), May 08, 2000.

I think David gave the pearls to Elizabeth because she had been his friend and ally during his illness. For her to give them back would be a smack in the face, even if she and Mark break up. I see no reason whatsoever that she should give them back. David did not give them to her with an conditions on the gift. They were just that, a gift.

-- Diana (dilynne@juno.com), May 08, 2000.

One more comment...I don't want to beat this over the head because it is not THAT big of a deal. In the case of David giving those pearls to Elizabeth...he probably gave those pearls to his wife in the first place so giving them to whomever he chooses is appropriate. And Mark didn't seem to object to it either (even though he seemed surprised). I wonder if this little tidbit will come into play on any future episodes?

-- amanda (amanda.rehm@home.com), May 08, 2000.

If Mark and Elizabeth DO eventually break up, her handing the pearls back to him would make for a powerful, wordless scene...

-- nancy (ntc72@mailcity.com), May 09, 2000.

Come on, if they don't have Mark and Corday get married, what are they going to do for November sweeps? I think they should get married. If the pearls were a foreshadowing, so be it. This show hasn't had a single wedding on it (except for Carol and Tag but that doesn't count because it fell through)

-- debbie (riccardoiii@aol.com), May 09, 2000.

But there were two weddings. The one between the nurse and the cop (forget their names right now). It was the show either right before Susan left or the show that they left. Then, earlier this season, Jeanie and Reggie got married (with the UPS guy as their witness).

We haven't had a real church wedding with all of the bells and whistles, though. The nurse and cop got married in the ER. And Jeanie and Reggie got married at the courthouse. So, no "real" weddings with veils and bridesmaids and music and cake and rice throwing, etc.

-- L. (bearcatiscool@yahoo.com), May 09, 2000.

The ER wedding was Lydia and Officer Al Grabowski(spelling?).

I just went over the ep again to pick up on things I missed first time around. (first chance I had, don't ask.) Noticed something about the "pearls" scene, that to me, makes all the difference in the world. No one seems to have mentioned it. David had given the pearls to his wife (Mark's mother) as a WEDDING PRESENT. I stand by my original assessment. Those pearls were a hint and a half for Lizzie.

-- S. Trelles (trelles@ix.netcom. com), May 10, 2000.

Yeah, the fact that it was a wedding present, and the look on Elizabeth's face after he told her that kind of indicated some hinting. But it is also because she was his friend and better to give something important to someone than never to at all. I guess he could have asked Mark to give them to Rachel.

We do DEFINETLY need a good wedding. I have been persistently rallying for some commeraderie on here and that would be the greatest way to do it. We are being jipped out of the Doug and Carol wedding that could have been (unless that is the huge surprise for tomorrow...j/k, unfortunately, I don't really believe that). I just said this on another thread, but I hope that by the end of the series, Carter is happily married off and perhaps we get to see him as a new Dad. I would *love* to see that!

-- Elaine (mrsclooney78@hotmail.com), May 10, 2000.

On the nbc ER website there are some video clips (this is mentioned in another thread about Noah) . Anyway there is a a video clip of Anthony Edwards discussing "love in the ER" and he was talking about how much he really enjoys the Mark and Elizabeth relationship and that he thinks the writers have done a great job of portraying it as a real relationship ie, its not always about them, but how they interact in life situations (do you know what I am trying to say...its not like Cleo and Benton where they are making out at every turn, its more how they interact in situations like with MArk's dad). To get to the point...I felt like Anthony Edwards really likes this pairing and if that is the case then maybe something more will be coming out of it! I have to say I like Mark and Elizabeth too!

-- amanda (amanda.rehm@home.com), May 10, 2000.

Amanda: I know what you mean about their relationship. It is very real isn't it, with questions and not always knowing where it's going. *I have a question though: closer to the beginning of the season, I read so many people saying they were boring or that they weren't really suited (which I don't agree with). What I'm wondering is, are people coming around to them or are the ones who like them now the same ones who have always liked them? Anyone care to answer?

-- May (archerl@cadvision.com), May 10, 2000.

Elaine, are you reading my mind??

-- S. Trelles (trelles@ix.netcom.com), May 11, 2000.

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